Dan Byslma Needs to Go?

[TrueBlueGED]

For the "what can you expect without Kane/Eichel" brigade:

 

Last season possession stats and league rank:

CF%: 46.75 (25th)

CF/60: 50.03 (28th)

CA/60: 56.98 (19th)

 

This season:

CF%: 46.81 (23rd)

CF/60: 46.66 (28th)

CA/60: 53.02 (20th)

 

We're not where we are because of injuries, we're where we are because this is how Bylsma wants to play.

[Jsixspd]

Bylsma put the team into the hockey equivalent of football's "Prevent Mode" early in the 3rd -  that mode that prevented the Sabres from winning.    Only 5 shots on goal in the entire 3rd period.  Bylsma had them sitting on their heels and protecting (unsuccessfully) the lead.   Disgusting!   

Edited October 26, 2016 by Jsixspd

[LGR4GM]

For the "what can you expect without Kane/Eichel" brigade:

 

Last season possession stats and league rank:

CF%: 46.75 (25th)

CF/60: 50.03 (28th)

CA/60: 56.98 (19th)

 

This season:

CF%: 46.81 (23rd)

CF/60: 46.66 (28th)

CA/60: 53.02 (20th)

 

We're not where we are because of injuries, we're where we are because this is how Bylsma wants to play.

 

[WildCard]

For the "what can you expect without Kane/Eichel" brigade:

 

Last season possession stats and league rank:

CF%: 46.75 (25th)

CF/60: 50.03 (28th)

CA/60: 56.98 (19th)

 

This season:

CF%: 46.81 (23rd)

CF/60: 46.66 (28th)

CA/60: 53.02 (20th)

 

We're not where we are because of injuries, we're where we are because this is how Bylsma wants to play.

God I love those stats

 

Wait, no. I hate them

 

I'd bet anything those stats look similar for his time in Pitt

Edited October 26, 2016 by WildCard

[That Aud Smell]

For the "what can you expect without Kane/Eichel" brigade:

 

Last season possession stats and league rank:

CF%: 46.75 (25th)

CF/60: 50.03 (28th)

CA/60: 56.98 (19th)

 

This season:

CF%: 46.81 (23rd)

CF/60: 46.66 (28th)

CA/60: 53.02 (20th)

 

We're not where we are because of injuries, we're where we are because this is how Bylsma wants to play.

 

It's almost as though surrendering the puck as part of your game plan/system is likely to yield such numbers.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I do not know what any of those fancy stats mean, but I do know that in the third period last night and most other times this season the Sabres did not look good.

[SwampD]

For the "what can you expect without Kane/Eichel" brigade:

 

Last season possession stats and league rank:

CF%: 46.75 (25th)

CF/60: 50.03 (28th)

CA/60: 56.98 (19th)

 

This season:

CF%: 46.81 (23rd)

CF/60: 46.66 (28th)

CA/60: 53.02 (20th)

 

We're not where we are because of injuries, we're where we are because this is how Bylsma wants to play.

Two questions.

 

Didn't our possession stats improve as the year went on last season? I'd like to see a breakdown of first half/second half.

 

Do you really not believe that having Eichel and Kane would improve our possession stats?

[TrueBlueGED]

I do not know what any of those fancy stats mean, but I do know that in the third period last night and most other times this season the Sabres did not look good.

I think I read this morning that shot attempts in the 3rd last night were 41-9.

God I love those stats

 

Wait, no. I hate them

 

I'd bet anything those stats look similar for his time in Pitt

They were much better in Pittsburgh, but he never had an elite possession team. Normally around 10th in the league. I also think it was several years in a row of sub-50% corsi after losing Jordan Staal.

It's almost as though surrendering the puck as part of your game plan/system is likely to yield such numbers.

Particularly when the roster of players largest collective weakness may be winning board battles.

Two questions.

 

Didn't our possession stats improve as the year went on last season? I'd like to see a breakdown of first half/second half.

 

Do you really not believe that having Eichel and Kane would improve our possession stats?

1) Don't think so. I believe they actually got worse after the first 15 games. I'll check when eating lunch later to be sure.

 

2) Kane would help some, but Eichel was a drag on possession last season because he had no idea how to play without the puck to get it back, so his line would get shelled regularly. So no, I don't think adding them would do much of anything net for the numbers.

[jsb]

Does anyone truly believe the coach says "don't possess the puck, just throw it out past the blue line and while you're at it, make a couple of stupendously stupid penalties in the last 5 minutes just for fun"??? :huh: :huh: :huh:

 

That's how you become a NHL coach????? Really???

Edited October 26, 2016 by jsb

[Randall Flagg]

Does anyone truly believe the coach says "don't possess the puck, just throw it out past the blue line and while your at it, make a couple of stupendously stupid penalties in the last 5 minutes just for fun"??? :huh: :huh: :huh:

 

That's how you become a NHL coach????? Really???

Hyperbole aside, Bylsma in fact does have them throw the puck away more often than other coaches do. Watch other teams.

 

Anaheim and LA played last night. Player for player, we are at least as fast as those teams are. System-wise, it's not even close, they were pushing play with quick passes and systemic pressure that we haven't come close to seeing since before the tank years. And their third and fourth lines are doing it. Our Larsson line is better than either of those teams' bottom six lines.

 

Our system is night and day compared to those of different teams and we aren't getting visual or statistical results.

I think I read this morning that shot attempts in the 3rd last night were 41-9.

 

They were much better in Pittsburgh, but he never had an elite possession team. Normally around 10th in the league. I also think it was several years in a row of sub-50% corsi after losing Jordan Staal.

 

Particularly when the roster of players largest collective weakness may be winning board battles.

 

1) Don't think so. I believe they actually got worse after the first 15 games. I'll check when eating lunch later to be sure.

 

2) Kane would help some, but Eichel was a drag on possession last season because he had no idea how to play without the puck to get it back, so his line would get shelled regularly. So no, I don't think adding them would do much of anything net for the numbers.

This makes a lot of sense - it's not as if Eichel's goals came after stretches of dominant puck possession. They were highlight reel rushes and snipes, from basically everywhere on the ice. Adding last year's Eichel to this wouldn't improve possession much, but it would turn those Foligno Rush-and-shoot-into-shin-pad rushes into goals a lot more often. It's what we'd expect and is supported with some numbers.

[Doohickie]

Yeah, I'm falling out of love with Disco Dan.  His system doesn't do well late in games.  If the Sabres are behind, it doesn't help them catch up; if they're ahead it's far too passive to hold the lead.

[WildCard]

@Schopptalk

From @CorsicaHockey: Deslauriers has NHL's second-worst 5-on-5 CF% this season (29.03%), Gorges fifth-worst, Gionta sixth-worst. #Sabres

[Randall Flagg]

Deslauriers is a bottom 3 forward in the NHL, in terms of those who dress as part of the regular 12 forwards.

[WildCard]

Deslauriers is a bottom 3 forward in the NHL, in terms of those who dress as part of the regular 12 forwards.

For the sake of argument say the other guy is also a 4th line guy. That still puts Des as the 89th worst forward in his group, possession wise, out of 90 Edited October 26, 2016 by WildCard

[TrueBlueGED]

For the sake of argument say the other guy is also a 4th line guy. That still puts Des as the 89th worst forward in his group, possession wise, out of 90

But he hits and fights, so people like him. I know that sounds snarky, but I mean it seriously: enjoyment of his style is causing many to overrated his effectiveness.

[WildCard]

But he hits and fights, so people like him. I know that sounds snarky, but I mean it seriously: enjoyment of his style is causing many to overrated his effectiveness.

I did it last year. I wonder how much can be attributed to those players or Dan though. Given my point above I'd have to say Dan, as I doubt Des is really the worst of the worst Edited October 26, 2016 by WildCard

[pi2000]

But he hits and fights, so people like him. I know that sounds snarky, but I mean it seriously: enjoyment of his style is causing many to overrated his effectiveness.

 

Those guys are a dime a dozen in the minor leagues.   He's on the team because they don't want to put guys like Bailey, Baptiste, Nylander, Carrier, etc... on the 4th line.    They want those guys playing big minutes in Roch.    When this team is ready to contend, that 4th line will look completely different.

[Randall Flagg]

I did it last year. I wonder how much can be attributed to those players or Dan though. Given my point above I'd have to say Dan, as I doubt Des is really the worst of the worst

I definitely think it's just Des.

Those guys are a dime a dozen in the minor leagues. He's on the team because they don't want to put guys like Bailey, Baptiste, Nylander, Carrier, etc... on the 4th line. They want those guys playing big minutes in Roch. When this team is ready to contend, that 4th line will look completely different.

Yep.

[WildCard]

Flagg, you think Des is the worst player in the league?

[Randall Flagg]

Flagg, you think Des is the worst player in the league?

I think he's one of the worst guys to be a part of the 12 man lineup of any team, yep. He has no skill and little hockey iq.

I think Dan's system would help a player like Des thrive if the player like Des was capable of NHL level hockey.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

So, we (in the collective sense) are blaming the coach, again, when he has not that good a roster to play with.

 

Yeah, I know that 2 of the good players are not playing right now, so maybe the system, or whatever you want to call it, is as it is due to that.

 

As 11 stated, lets see what happens when Eich and Kane are back for a while.

[That Aud Smell]

Deslauriers is a bottom 3 forward in the NHL, in terms of those who dress as part of the regular 12 forwards.

 

I think this is right.

 

But he hits and fights, so people like him. I know that sounds snarky, but I mean it seriously: enjoyment of his style is causing many to overrated his effectiveness.

 

Less and less so, I think.

 

Those guys are a dime a dozen in the minor leagues.   He's on the team because they don't want to put guys like Bailey, Baptiste, Nylander, Carrier, etc... on the 4th line.    They want those guys playing big minutes in Roch.    When this team is ready to contend, that 4th line will look completely different.

 

Fair point. May it be so!

[Thorny]

How much rope does Bylsma's Cup get him with you? It was 2009, and every year thereafter the Pens disappointed in the playoffs.

This thread is just highlighting more and more the problems with Bylsma and his system. Of those I am in full agreement. But without speaking for PA, he may have been shedding some light on the fact that it's not JUST Bylsma to blame. That roster construction may be playing a factor, regardless of how poor Bylsma is operating things.

[Brawndo]

http://www.pensburgh.com/2015/1/14/7528813/penguins-historical-perspectives-part-ii

 

Here are some stats on the Pens first 41 games over the past few seasons 

[TrueBlueGED]

So, we (in the collective sense) are blaming the coach, again, when he has not that good a roster to play with.

 

Yeah, I know that 2 of the good players are not playing right now, so maybe the system, or whatever you want to call it, is as it is due to that.

 

As 11 stated, lets see what happens when Eich and Kane are back for a while.

 

 

This thread is just highlighting more and more the problems with Bylsma and his system. Of those I am in full agreement. But without speaking for PA, he may have been shedding some light on the fact that it's not JUST Bylsma to blame. That roster construction may be playing a factor, regardless of how poor Bylsma is operating things.

 

The roster definitely matters, and I don't want my Bylsma criticism to be construed as giving Murray a free pass. I thought Murray had a pretty disappointing offseason in terms of addressing holes and adding NHL-caliber depth. We'll never know whether or not he tried to add beyond the Vesey and Stamkos not-meant-to-be's, but whether he just couldn't get the job done or didn't think there was a job to be done (or alternatively, simply felt the remaining available pieces were not worth pursuing), the roster's not as good as it could have been. 

 

But that doesn't absolve Bylsma of having a flawed system and misusing the talent that he does have at his disposal. It shouldn't absolve him, anyway.

Edited October 27, 2016 by TrueBlueGED