K-9 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 To the latter, I have given it thought. I think sports is something that should be casual and fun. Others would argue it's their whole lives. That's why I propose we dig deeper. To the first bolded, I'm not sure this is a real thing where sports are concerned. Perhaps we want it to be, but have you been to a Bills game recently? Have you seen parents screaming profanity at a Junior High hockey match? Civility and hospitality are not the norm. To the point that you call absurd, I don't see absurd. I see logic if you take sports fandom and distill it to a tribal level. That's what sports fandom is to many people. Being a sports fan is tribal. This my reasoning for labeling it absurd. But in terms of your initial question at to the "why" and my answer of "the psychology", we have close the loop. GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) I really don't care what Gilbert said in the article. For me it's not about the article it is what the article represents ... another questionable action taken by the team management and owner that makes me think it is probably not about cup(s). What makes you think it's not about the cups? Winning cups would be the best possible thing for the Sabres' bottom line. As to this place being a chatroom for a dozen people or so... Oh please. There's somewhere around 40 regulars, and there's almost always ~70 guests along for the ride as well. PTR, if you're not stimulated by the discussion here, nobody's holding you down and forcing you to read it. I don't know. Because we suck? Sounds like you DO know. Edited February 2, 2016 by qwksndmonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 ---- K9, If it's not an insult then why use an insulting term. Please choose your words more carefully. I agree. I really don't care what Gilbert said in the article. For me it's not about the article it is what the article represents ... another questionable action taken by the team management and owner that makes me think it is probably not about cup(s). What are these questionable actions? I find it interesting that a real opinion, that does no more than provoke thought, is threatened. Call me an odd duck I guess. Id say that response is due to a lack of either desire or ability to critically consider PAs thought. That isnt on PA. Well, you're assuming away the issue here, innit? SDS (and I, FWIW) thought the OP wasn't a real opinion -- just trolling. Now, you and others may disagree with this assessment, and I think it's perfectly fine to discuss whether or not the OP's concerns are justified, but I don't agree with characterizing SDS' or chz's responses to the OP as any kind of stifling of dissent. His actions with the Sabres since he purchased the Bills have been far different from his words that day. There's something fishy going on here and some posters are beginning to sniff it out. Warning PA seems to me to be part of a slow plan to get rid of the "trolls" and turn this forum into pure conformity. Something similar has been happening on TBD. At the very least the mods don't like people criticizing ownership if the reason isn't "valid". To which I say, why would the mods care if they have no interests tied up with One Buffalo? I understand getting annoyed. But warning long-time posters who seem genuine about their concerns? Fishy fishy fishy. As to the first bolded part: what are these actions? Please be specific. As to the 2nd: getting rid of trolls is, by definition, a good thing. Also: I don't see how anyone could read any thread on this board and infer a push towards conformity. The last paragraph is nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 This my reasoning for labeling it absurd. But in terms of your initial question at to the "why" and my answer of "the psychology", we have close the loop. GO SABRES!!! I apologize but I still don't understand your reasoning behind the use of the word absurd. Is sports fandom irrational? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 This my reasoning for labeling it absurd. But in terms of your initial question at to the "why" and my answer of "the psychology", we have close the loop. GO SABRES!!! So, do you cheer louder when the sSabres score or when the opposition scores or neither, or both? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Sounds like you DO know. Shhh, nothing is ever that simple @nfreeman: PA is not a troll. Yuri, now he was a troll (sorry NS) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) I don't know. Because we suck? Okay, so what about defending your house from opposing fans? Or is the building supposed to be empty but for Sabres fans? Should there be a loyalty oath recited at the security checkpoint? Edited February 2, 2016 by PromoTheRobot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I for one have a big problem when anyone takes issue with how Scott runs this board (it's happened in here a few times). He's gone a long way to provide this place to us free of charge. He has given to us far more than anyone has to him. For that reason alone, I wish people would drop the petty board related complaints. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Shhh, nothing is ever that simple @nfreeman: PA is not a troll. Yuri, now he was a troll (sorry NS) I don't think he's a troll, full stop, but I do think (as I mentioned upthread) that he from time to time engages in trolling. I for one have a big problem when anyone takes issue with how Scott runs this board (it's happened in here a few times). He's gone a long way to provide this place to us free of charge. He has given to us far more than anyone has to him. For that reason alone, I wish people would drop the petty board related complaints. Abso-freaking-lutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I think implicit in the angst (or potential angst, as the case may be) is the notion that the Sabres are courting Leaf fans at the expense of Sabres fans. That the front office's preferences are Leaf fans > Sabres fans. I think the preference structure is more along the lines of Sabres fans > Leaf fans > empty seats. For the sake of argument let's say the Sabres are directly marking to Leaf fans...if they're doing it for the latter preference structure, is that really so awful? To those who answer that question in the affirmative, I have two follow-ups. 1) have you found yourself finding the arena atmosphere to be far too subdued for your tastes? 2) Have you been to a Sabres-Leafs game over the past couple of years? I said it in my first post in the thread: those games are a blast to go to even though the teams are bad, and have been for awhile. The arena atmosphere at those games is light years above others, precisely because of the presence of the Leaf fans. At least for mundane regular season games, fan rivalries enhance the experience as much or more than anything on the ice, at least while the product remains poor. So putting it all together, if empty seats are a problem (they are) and the arena atmosphere is also a problem (it is), then is not an injection of fans from other teams not only a logical solution, but a desirable one? Or would you prefer 3000 empty seats, another 5000 mentally empty seats, and a morgue-like atmosphere? Obviously 18,000 maniacal Sabres fans is the ideal, but as has been discussed elsewhere, a lot of that is out of the team's control (the STHs will or will not sell their tickets independent of the Sabres marketing). If the choices are a raucous atmosphere with Leafs fans or a poor atmosphere without them, is the former truly so bad to try to facilitate, let alone rising to the level of actively working against the goal of winning a Cup? Seems to me at least part of PA should be happy about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Okay, so what about defending your house from opposing fans? Or is the building supposed to be empty? Defending is not the same as an open invitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 The product does suck. And now that it isn't improving fast enough, they are looking for butts in seats wherever they can get them. Would you say that's our fault? Not the fans fault. But if certain fans are going to crusade over opposing fans in our building but yet not attend games themselves, it smacks of something...what's the word... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I don't think he's a troll, full stop, but I do think (as I mentioned upthread) that he from time to time engages in trolling. If it drives the conversation, who cares? Have you seen the front page of this forum today? I'm dominating it (atta boy WC, nice job) and it's all hockey related stuff. But, guess where everyone is? In here. Forums live and die on discussion, and it's abundantly evident what people are interested in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musichunch Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I agree. What are these questionable actions? Well, you're assuming away the issue here, innit? SDS (and I, FWIW) thought the OP wasn't a real opinion -- just trolling. Now, you and others may disagree with this assessment, and I think it's perfectly fine to discuss whether or not the OP's concerns are justified, but I don't agree with characterizing SDS' or chz's responses to the OP as any kind of stifling of dissent. As to the first bolded part: what are these actions? Please be specific. As to the 2nd: getting rid of trolls is, by definition, a good thing. Also: I don't see how anyone could read any thread on this board and infer a push towards conformity. The last paragraph is nonsense. Laughable. And there's a reason I put trolls in quotation marks. I for one have a big problem when anyone takes issue with how Scott runs this board (it's happened in here a few times). He's gone a long way to provide this place to us free of charge. He has given to us far more than anyone has to him. For that reason alone, I wish people would drop the petty board related complaints. Yeah let's never question authority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I think implicit in the angst (or potential angst, as the case may be) is the notion that the Sabres are courting Leaf fans at the expense of Sabres fans. That the front office's preferences are Leaf fans > Sabres fans. I think the preference structure is more along the lines of Sabres fans > Leaf fans > empty seats. For the sake of argument let's say the Sabres are directly marking to Leaf fans...if they're doing it for the latter preference structure, is that really so awful? To those who answer that question in the affirmative, I have two follow-ups. 1) have you found yourself finding the arena atmosphere to be far too subdued for your tastes? 2) Have you been to a Sabres-Leafs game over the past couple of years? I said it in my first post in the thread: those games are a blast to go to even though the teams are bad, and have been for awhile. The arena atmosphere at those games is light years above others, precisely because of the presence of the Leaf fans. At least for mundane regular season games, fan rivalries enhance the experience as much or more than anything on the ice, at least while the product remains poor. So putting it all together, if empty seats are a problem (they are) and the arena atmosphere is also a problem (it is), then is not an injection of fans from other teams not only a logical solution, but a desirable one? Or would you prefer 3000 empty seats, another 5000 mentally empty seats, and a morgue-like atmosphere? Obviously 18,000 maniacal Sabres fans is the ideal, but as has been discussed elsewhere, a lot of that is out of the team's control (the STHs will or will not sell their tickets independent of the Sabres marketing). If the choices are a raucous atmosphere with Leafs fans or a poor atmosphere without them, is the former truly so bad to try to facilitate, let alone rising to the level of actively working against the goal of winning a Cup? Seems to me at least part of PA should be happy about it. Yeah, I like this. Definitely said much better than I was trying to though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Defending is not the same as an open invitation. So now that the invite is made, what do you propose? Calling the Hamilton paper and rescinding it? Telling Leafs fans to stay home? How about firing the Sabres employee that made the offending quote? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 So now that the invite is made, what do you propose? Calling the Hamilton paper and rescinding it? Telling Leafs fans to stay home? How about firing the Sabres employee that made the offending quote? The dispute is if the invitation was made or not. I honestly haven't read the article Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musichunch Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 Not the fans fault. But if certain fans are going to crusade over opposing fans in our building but yet not attend games themselves, it smacks of something...what's the word... You want every fan to attend 40 games a year? For a bottom of the standings team? Not every Sabres fan lives in East Amherst and has a cushy middle class job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 As for the hive-mind concept, maybe ya'll should post more. If you have an opinion on something, post it, and argue it. Best conversations I ever get on here are with people who staunchly oppose me. That's what made the ROR thread so fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 If it drives the conversation, who cares? Have you seen the front page of this forum today? I'm ###### dominating it (atta boy WC, nice job) and it's all hockey related stuff. But, guess where everyone is? In here. Forums live and die on discussion, and it's abundantly evident what people are interested in Well, the people who are interested in this topic are the ones who are in this thread. I think SDS' point is that trolling can have the opposite effect -- i.e. turn people off to the point they stop coming to the board. Laughable. How so? Please be specific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musichunch Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 So now that the invite is made, what do you propose? Calling the Hamilton paper and rescinding it? Telling Leafs fans to stay home? How about firing the Sabres employee that made the offending quote? Raising an eyebrow at the Sabres organization is enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 You want every fan to attend 40 games a year? For a bottom of the standings team? Not every Sabres fan lives in East Amherst and has a cushy middle class job. Of course not, but I assumed there are more than 19,000 Sabres fans in WNY and So.Ontario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 I apologize but I still don't understand your reasoning behind the use of the word absurd. Is sports fandom irrational? Absurd means more than just irrational so I don't want to get bogged down in an argument over semantics. Let's just say I find it silly to invest so much emotional energy into outcomes we have absolutely no control over in the first place. Letting it be a reason to hate people who cheer for other teams is phucked up entirely. You can call that passion, I call it crossing the line. GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musichunch Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) As for the hive-mind concept, maybe ya'll should ###### post more. If you have an opinion on something, post it, and argue it. Best conversations I ever get on here are with people who staunchly oppose me. That's what made the ROR thread so fun It's not fun to post if you're fighting the hive mind all the time. Give it a try sometime. You would have more respect for PA. Edited February 2, 2016 by musichunch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 2, 2016 Report Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Well, the people who are interested in this topic are the ones who are in this thread. I think SDS' point is that trolling can have the opposite effect -- i.e. turn people off to the point they stop coming to the board. The counter to that is, it's literally the only one being posted it. And it was for almost all of yesterday to. People can visit and read every thread they want, but if nobody's conversing in it, it dies, and so does the entertainment. I don't have the information SDS has, so maybe he's right that trolling scares people away. I do know this though, controversy and dissenting opinions drive conversation, whether here, the Kane thread, or the PP thread. Edited February 2, 2016 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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