dudacek Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Remember before we got OReilly and people said he was only good because of who he was playing with? My how things have changed. And just in case people may have misread my earlier post, Eichel has been and almost certainly will be the Sabres top rookie. He just should be - and will be - so much better than he is. He's only 19 and sometimes it shows. Last I checked he was the team's worst minus and had just four assists, despite buckets of shielded ice time. Completely absolving him for those stats is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Remember before we got OReilly and people said he was only good because of who he was playing with? My how things have changed. And just in case people may have misread my earlier post, Eichel has been and almost certainly will be the Sabres top rookie. He just should be - and will be - so much better than he is. He's only 19 and sometimes it shows. Last I checked he was the team's worst minus and had just four assists, despite buckets of shielded ice time. Completely absolving him for those stats is wrong. I'd like to see where you can show these 'buckets of shielded ice time' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Well at this point of the season, I'd say J.McCabe. He's been on the 2nd D line for quite awhile, has the 3rd most minutes played of the Dmen 5v5, has the 2nd best +/- of the DMen and no-one expected this kid to be on the team. Of the 3 prominently mentioned rookies, he has played the most consistent. Just because his he'll never score like Jack or Samson doesn't mean he's not playing well. Who'll be the best by the end of the year, I'm guessing Jack E will be, Samson a close 2nd because he's more consistent especially now but who's played the most consistent and arguably best so far..... it's Jake the Mc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 My real concern about Jack Eichel isn't his current play which is okay, but with Reinhart we have seen this constant growth and improvement. Jack Eichel's improvement line has been more level. He is better than the beginning of the season but I want to see more improvement. I think in another 20games we should have a pretty good feeling on who is the best Rookie. Probably will be Jack but Reinhart has impressed me this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Jack because of his tools (size, speed, shot). He already has 8 goals, but is mostly creating offense on his own. Samson is older and is thinking the game better. They both have a lot to learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) For those favoring Reinhart, would you all be OK with Jack you going to first line wing while Samson plays second line center for the next 20 games? GO SABRES!!! Edited November 30, 2015 by K-9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) For those favoring Reinhart, would you all be OK with Jack you going to first line wing while Samson plays second line center for the next 20 games? GO SABRES!!! I personally would. I don't think that will ever happen but I would be okay seeing that. We would at least be able to judge these two guys a lot better. I just want to clarify, I really love Eichel's game and what he brings to the team. I think for a 19yr old kid he has played some absolutely incredible hockey. Edited November 30, 2015 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 I give the participation award to Brian Gionta. I think eichel "should" end up with it. However, his game of late, other that spurts has not really wowed me that well. I'll chime in later on after I see a bit more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) I'd like to see where you can show these 'buckets of shielded ice time' He gets buckets of ice time - 61st in the entire league for forwards, right up there with guys like Voracek, Pacioretty and Getzlaf. Until recently it was higher. Unlike those guys, he does not usually play against the other team's top scorers or top checkers. That's the O'Reilly line. Edited November 30, 2015 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Yeap. And even though we know it's not in Samson's game to be dominate and flashy, I think some think Jack has vanishing acts just because he isn't as dominate at some times, whereas nobody says that about Reinhart because he is just consistently at the same level Which, to me, is an endorsement for Samson. In picking one "best rookie" though, I'm projecting forward toward the end of the year. When it's all said and done, who do I think will be the best rookie on the team? I'll stick with Samson. Unless Jack learns some discipline, he could end up another Afinogenov or Ennis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) Which, to me, is an endorsement for Samson. In picking one "best rookie" though, I'm projecting forward toward the end of the year. When it's all said and done, who do I think will be the best rookie on the team? I'll stick with Samson. Unless Jack learns some discipline, he could end up another Afinogenov or Ennis. Edited November 30, 2015 by qwksndmonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Someone Michonne this thread in the head. Jebus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Yes, I know it's an extreme, but to fulfill his potential, Jack as a lot of learnin' to do. Either that or he needs linemates that will cover for his free-lancing. (This is a real possibility; it's the way Washington handled Ovi for years.) Okay, enough of extremes. Jack will no doubt fulfill our dreams and expectations. I think we just need to get him to clear the defensive zone just a bit better. I just see too many Jack-in-control/Jack-gave-it-away sequences. That seems to be the one part of the game that's most different from what he played in the college game. He tries to carry it out and get's jumped by forecheckers.... or he passes it but passes it into a lane where it's cut off by forecheckers. He sees the game really well on the offensive side, but I think he needs to develop that in the D zone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 He gets buckets of ice time - 61st in the entire league for forwards, right up there with guys like Voracek, Pacioretty and Getzlaf. Until recently it was higher. Unlike those guys, he does not usually play against the other team's top scorers or top checkers. That's the O'Reilly line. Getting tons of ice time isn't indicative of who he's playing against, and not playing on the first line doesn't mean he gets easy competition. Patrick Kane plays the 2nd line, does he get shielded minutes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Getting tons of ice time isn't indicative of who he's playing against, and not playing on the first line doesn't mean he gets easy competition. Patrick Kane plays the 2nd line, does he get shielded minutes? Patrick Kane is starting 73.9% of his shifts in the offensive zone. Jack Eichel starts far fewer in the o-zone (57.2%), so yes I would guess Kane, especially at home is not playing against other teams top lines. It is one of the reasons you have Toews and him separate a lot. but considering Bylsma talked about how Zemgus being out was bad for ROR because he had to take on teams top lines, I would assume Eichel is not taking on teams #1 lines, especially at home. Jack is getting somewhat sheltered minutes but he also has received 64.9minutes of PP time. 26.1 minutes of shorthanded time. He is generally being used as a #2 center who is not considered a shut down line. Considering that he has handled his responsibility well. I just want to see more improvement from him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html?mansit=3&scoresit=1&homeawaysit=1&tablegroup=1&playoffs=All&names=&team=BUF&pos=1&start1=2015-10-01&xaxis=61&yaxis=96&caxis=95&saxis=103&mintoi=0&tab=2&usedaterange=0&start0=20152016&end0=20152016&end1=2015-11-30&splitseasons=1 Eichel has had slightly easier ice time and more of it, but Reinhart has had better teammates. I don't think you can say one is being sheltered and the other isn't, it's just too close. Also, ROR is a sexy beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted November 30, 2015 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 (edited) http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html?mansit=3&scoresit=1&homeawaysit=1&tablegroup=1&playoffs=All&names=&team=BUF&pos=1&start1=2015-10-01&xaxis=61&yaxis=96&caxis=95&saxis=103&mintoi=0&tab=2&usedaterange=0&start0=20152016&end0=20152016&end1=2015-11-30&splitseasons=1 Eichel has had slightly easier ice time and more of it, but Reinhart has had better teammates. I don't think you can say one is being sheltered and the other isn't, it's just too close. Also, ROR is a sexy beast. Look at Rasmus though :worthy: Edit: And it seems Matty Moulson gets the most talent to play with on this team Edited November 30, 2015 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 http://war-on-ice.com/playertable.html?mansit=3&scoresit=1&homeawaysit=1&tablegroup=1&playoffs=All&names=&team=BUF&pos=1&start1=2015-10-01&xaxis=61&yaxis=96&caxis=95&saxis=103&mintoi=0&tab=2&usedaterange=0&start0=20152016&end0=20152016&end1=2015-11-30&splitseasons=1 Eichel has had slightly easier ice time and more of it, but Reinhart has had better teammates. I don't think you can say one is being sheltered and the other isn't, it's just too close. Also, ROR is a sexy beast. Good things we have #fancystats to tell us that about Radar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Unless Jack learns some discipline, he could end up another Afinogenov or Ennis. Yeah...no. Can we add Rhino to the list of choices for ROTY? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted November 30, 2015 Report Share Posted November 30, 2015 Yeah...no. Can we add Rhino to the list of choices for ROTY? Which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 Which one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted December 1, 2015 Report Share Posted December 1, 2015 You're overthinking it. It's Eichel. It's a pretty simple answer: he's been the best rookie. More points than any other and his dominance at times is unmatched by any of the others. This isn't even a debate. But I like the thread as an opportunity to hear some evaluations of Reinhart and McCabe. Don't agree with the bolded. I think it is definitely up for debate at this stage. If the season ended right now, it's Eichel. But the numbers are pretty close. 12 points to 9, in favor of Jack, but Reinhart is also an Even whereas Jack is a -6. Jack dominates at times, but Reinhart is more consistent. Currently, it's trending Reinhart as he has been the better player the last few games. But Jack is still adjusting. Obviously Reinhart is too, but seems like Jack is even more so. At the end of the year, I'd guess Eichel will be our ROTY, but it's far from certain. Here's the rub: We get both of these guys. 19 and 20 years old. They are going to be great players. This is a great debate to be able to have. For those favoring Reinhart, would you all be OK with Jack you going to first line wing while Samson plays second line center for the next 20 games? GO SABRES!!! Lucky for us, this will be the set-up soon enough, except with Jack in the middle on the top line, of course. Pretty much this. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 (edited) The continued development of Reinhart Reinhart has earned time on theSabres’ top line with Ryan O’Reilly and Evander Kane. He has also contributed to Buffalo’s power play scoring four goals and five points with the man advantage. Reinhart’s increased role is evidenced, among other statistics, by his increase in ice time which currently stands at an average of 16:23 per game through 45 games [started at ~11 minutes/game for the first stretch]. http://thehockeywriters.com/sam-reinhart-development-buffalo-sabres/ And the improvement of Eichel Jack Eichel Scored a goal and an assist in a 2-1 win at Arizona, giving him 15 points (5 G, 10 A) in the past 14 games. Since the beginning of December, Chicago’s Artemi Panarin is the only rookie scoring more than Eichel. http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-hall-purcell-power-oilers-1.425362 Edited January 19, 2016 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JujuFish Posted January 19, 2016 Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 And the improvement of Eichel http://www.tsn.ca/statistically-speaking-hall-purcell-power-oilers-1.425362 And Panarin, for comparison's sake, is almost exactly 5 years older than Eichel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 19, 2016 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2016 And Panarin, for comparison's sake, is almost exactly 5 years older than Eichel. And he has that Kane guy to play with; Anisimov is no slouch either. To be completely fair though, this list would look a hell of a lot different if McDavid was playing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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