Johnny DangerFace Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 How good does Lehner need to be to justify this trade? Name a goalie. Would a in his prime Miller be good enough? Of course...this was an overpayment, but it was the 21st pick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 John Vogl @BuffNewsVogl 2m2 minutes ago The No. 21 picks from 2011-2014 drafts have combined for one NHL game. Tim Murray was looking for immediate help with Robin Lehner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SarasotaSabre Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I agree. All these 1st and 2nds shouldn't be given away easily. If Murray keeps making trades and setting the market he is gonna get owned by other GM's I'm hoping Murray doesn't choose Strome or Marner now at 2 stop already with the hysteria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Note that all the picks we have are courtesy of Regier. Murray hasn't added any, he just gives away the stuff he predecessor built up for him. Horrible trade. Hey look, a factually incorrect statement! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresBillsFan Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Why do I have a feeling he is gonna give away Grigrenko and Hodgson for nothing soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 It is VERY difficult to like this deal. It seems that we overpaid for a goaltender (given the recent market for even better goalies and Lehner's recent injury) and did Ottawa a favor. I really hope that GMTM pulled off a great deal in the end, but he sure has a habit (in my opinion) of trading more than one should (again my opinion) when he is fixated on a player. In the end, how much will Lehner give us compared to other goalies already in the organization (or free agents) and who we could have had with the 21st pick. Just my two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 My 2 cents: - it seems like an expensive price to pay, but it really all depends on how good Lehner turns out, innit? He's clearly GMTM's guy. If he turns out to be a good-to-very-good #1 goalie, it was a good trade. - It's not like the Sabres gave up a sure-fire good NHL player. Recent #21 overall picks: - 2012: Mark Jankowski - 2011: Stefan Noesen - 2010: Riley Sheahan - 2009: John Moore - 2008: Anton Gustafsson - 2007: Riley Nash - 2006: Bob Sanguinetti - As I've said a number of times: we all like GMTM because he's not DR, and because of the ZFG attitude -- but we really have no idea whether he is going to do what we really want -- put together a good team. It's too early to tell. This is another move that he'll be evaluated on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Yuck, you're smoking more than I am at this point. Pass that ######. Anderson is 34, signed for 3 more years, and is great then terrible. I'd take the 23 year old. Better numbers, no signs of slowing down, one of the best save percentages over the last few years and loves to face a lot of shots. Use him as a stopgap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I'm going to lunch. Someone else can announce bad news until I get back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Better numbers, no signs of slowing down, one of the best save percentages over the last few years and loves to face a lot of shots. Use him as a stopgap. I honestly don't see how using a 1st round pick on a veteran stopgap is preferable to taking a chance on a long term solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresBillsFan Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I'm just hoping Murray doesn't pick Strome or Marner now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 sabres need scorers maybe now Grigs stays? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 My esteem for TM is eroding rapidly. This is a horrible trade even if Lehner is the next Hasek. It shows poor understanding of the market and a gross overpayment for a position that we could address in FA. This is the first instance where I am beginning to see the foundation of the Murray is planning to take the Sens job talk. Hate this to the point of ruining my Eichel Day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I honestly don't see how using a 1st round pick on a veteran stopgap is preferable to taking a chance on a long term solution. Agreed, my firtst reaction too to the above statement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) My esteem for TM is eroding rapidly. This is a horrible trade even if Lehner is the next Hasek. It shows poor understanding of the market and a gross overpayment for a position that we could address in FA. This is the first instance where I am beginning to see the foundation of the Murray is planning to take the Sens job talk. Hate this to the point of ruining my Eichel Day.If he becomes a top 5 goalie it is a great trade. It's the 21st pick, let's stop the dramatic overreactions Schneider who obviously was borderline top 5 goalie at the time got a top 10 pick and everyone thought it was a great trade. This is mid/later 1st rounder based purely on potential Edited June 26, 2015 by Vlad Dangerslakov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
z-man Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 First reaction was not that favorable, but now I've rationalized it. A low first may not even get you a top end rental forward on its own at a trade deadline. At best, it's a throw in on a deal for someone like O'Reilly, who Murray may not even be that high on, and who may wind up being a one year rental for whoever trades for him. You have to think anyone trading a player now for 21 is just going to use it as ammo to move up, so that adds extra work and uncertainty for them. Lehner has plenty of term, and if Murray/scouts truly believe Lehner was the best option on the market, via trade or FA, I'm fine with moving a first to get their guy. Teambuilding trumps winning trades...good stuff costs. That said, the concussion thing is worrisome. Are there any examples of goalies who've had similar issues and gone on to years of success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Another thought: from everything I've read leading up to the draft, the dropoff in talent happens before the #21 pick--around 18 or so. That next tier lasts well into the second round. In other words, we're likely to get as good of a prospect at 31 as 21 if that is in fact how the talent tiering brakes down. I still don't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 How good does Lehner need to be to justify this trade? Name a goalie. Would a in his prime Miller be good enough? Abso-freakin-lutely. This is a horrible, horrible move. I don't care if Murray is a savant hockey scout, we have seen our share of dumb-ass, fool moves and this is one of them. Pick 21 in a deep draft for a goalie, a goalie who is JUST coming off a severe concussion? With all of the other assets, you mean to say there was no way to get this done otherwise? You couldn't exercise patience, and instead act like a child holding a $100 bill in a toy store? Bad, bad, I mean, beyond bad judgment here, and a lack of self-control, on Murray's part. The goalie market is as much of a buyer's market as it has been; there was no reason to waste such a valuable asset like pick 21 on this. Murray can dig himself out of this hole, but he's going to have to do some impressive conjuring to do so. Unless he really thinks Lehner will be a difference-maker for the Sabres starting now and for the next 5-7 years, and if he didn't get him now someone else was going to (maybe for a lower price, but that's not the key to everything). Why do I have a feeling he is gonna give away Grigrenko and Hodgson for nothing soon. Because they stink? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) Bad management has gotten us where we are and that's where we'll stay. Edited June 26, 2015 by 716 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 At least he's won a Calder Championship and the MVP in it. That's all I can hang my hopes on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny DangerFace Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 My last post on this for a bit: I don't like the value and think it was an overpayment. However if he becomes a top goalie then it was a great trade. That simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 If he becomes a top 5 goalie it is a great trade. It's the 21st pick, let's stop the dramatic overreactions Schneider who obviously was borderline top 5 goalie at the time got a top 10 pick and everyone thought it was a great trade. This is mid/later 1st rounder based purely on potential If a frog had wings he wouldn't bump his ass when he hopped. Lack was available for a #2 (51?) and Neuvirth a FA along with Niemai, Raanta and a soon host of others. Crawford won the Cup 2x's and you would be hard pressed to find many who would rank him in the top 5 along with Lundquist, Price, Rinne, Rask Holtby, or Hell Dubnyk. Paying that for a position that can be filled with league average at least for the moment is poor asset management and poor judgment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sicknfla Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 With all the money TP is willing to spend on coaches he should have bought the best GM his money could buy. You give a rebuild of this magnitude to a first time GM and this is what you get. This guy is a joke and is quickly becoming a laughingstock. Absolutely no reason to give up what he did and even less reason to do it now. Let the freaking day play out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 Called it months ago that TM would go after one of the goalies in Ottawa. He knows them well so you have to hope he knows what he's getting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted June 26, 2015 Report Share Posted June 26, 2015 I honestly don't see how using a 1st round pick on a veteran stopgap is preferable to taking a chance on a long term solution. Just because Lehner is 23 doesn't mean he's a long term solution. His numbers aren't favorable and neither is his head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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