beerme1 Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I'm with d4rk, even if it's Matthews, I hope we look to move the pick, with the obvious condition that the return is fair value that helps us next season and beyond, not starting 2-3 seasons from now. It hurts more if you fight it. Just relax and let the losses shower over you. Only 22 games left. Unless we lose somebody important in camp, then just one more season after this one. But wait, I heard there's this 15 year old phenom just tearing ###### up. If we get him in 2 years, we'll really be set. Tank Forever! I guess I'm just done with this. Matthews is going to start helping someone immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Here's an example. Let's say the Sabs win the lottery and Arizona is 6th or something. Eager to have their local boy as the face of the franchise, and positively desperate to sell tickets, Arizona offers OEL and that 6th for Buffalo's 1st. Gotta do it, right? And I don't think it's unreasonable from either side.Yup, and maybe I'm crazy, but I'd do it for OEL and something less than pick 6. MaybeI'ddoitstraightup. Though my love for OEL is fairly well documented here. Oh man that leaves so few options to anyone who fits that description. Mathews is in the Eichel realm of potential talent and would be an immediate contributor beginning next season. It's not as if Mathews is a guy that needs a year or two in Rochester. I guess I would take a look at it if we're talking about OEL and a 1st from Zona. But I doubt Arizona has the depth on D to move OEL. Maybe a Tyler Seguin from Dallas? There aren't very many names I'd be interested in enough to move Mathews for. And you post this at the same time as me. Nice. I just can't see Arizona making that move. But yes, I would probably make that deal. Agreed that there aren't many options. I only say I'd like Tim to look into moving it, but if nothing comes up that's any good, I'd also be fine keeping the pick. Ideally for me, a move is there that makes sense, but if not, whatevah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I guess I'm just done with this. Matthews is going to start helping someone immediately. Who says we're getting Matthews? I want to get our defense correct. That is priority #1. Matthews doesn't help us with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I guess I'm just done with this. Matthews is going to start helping someone immediately.I like Matthews and agree that he will, but I'm not as high on him as some people are and would prefer a player who's played a few years at an elite level (like OEL) if it's at all possible. Like I later said, that may not be possible but I absolutely hope we look into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabresith Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Patrik Laine, that is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintwestwood Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Who says we're getting Matthews? I want to get our defense correct. That is priority #1. Matthews doesn't help us with that. Plus we'd be running into an influx of centers. As fantastic as Matthews may be we need wings and defense. Give me one of the Finns or Chychrun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPre Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Who says we're getting Matthews? I want to get our defense correct. That is priority #1. Matthews doesn't help us with that. Agreed. Going w/ another forward, particularly center, would be Edmonton 2.0 *McDavid is an exception. Nobody could pass on him. I'm making reference to previous drafts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Why not keep Matthews and trade Reinhart? Also, Matthews is an entirely different situation. We have centers, we don't have wingers just like we don't have defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Why not keep Matthews and trade Reinhart? Also, Matthews is an entirely different situation. We have centers, we don't have wingers just like we don't have defense. Yes. This is what I would look at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I guess I'm just done with this. Matthews is going to start helping someone immediately. To be honest, I'm completely ok with tanking at this point, although the sarcasm in my previous post probably indicated otherwise. I want the team to be better but with the season currently 75% over and our best player (for now) being shelved for half of the remaining 25%, the trade deadline coming up, expiring contracts, some great prospects at the top of the draft and the fact that we're currently in the bottom 5, I think we'd be better off finishing closer to the bottom and hoping we luck out and get a LHD or RW that we need to draft in the top 5 or 6 in order to get. I've had enough heroic runs to 9th for one lifetime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 To be honest, I'm completely ok with tanking at this point, although the sarcasm in my previous post probably indicated otherwise. I want the team to be better but with the season currently 75% over and our best player (for now) being shelved for half of the remaining 25%, the trade deadline coming up, expiring contracts, some great prospects at the top of the draft and the fact that we're currently in the bottom 5, I think we'd be better off finishing closer to the bottom and hoping we luck out and get a LHD or RW that we need to draft in the top 5 or 6 in order to get. I've had enough heroic runs to 9th for one lifetime. Wow. Yes, this doesn't fit with your previous post at all :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Why not keep Matthews and trade Reinhart? Also, Matthews is an entirely different situation. We have centers, we don't have wingers just like we don't have defense. The likelihood of us drafting Matthews is extremely small. I think I am with d4rk and others who have said that they would be inclined to trade the pick. The return for a high pick in this coming draft should be good. I like the scenario outlined by 11 and Derrico involving the Coyotes. OEL would look grand as our other top pairing Dman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 I don't think OEL is for sale for anything other than Matthews. Also, if we trade that pick, I trade it to Edmonto immediately. Let them take their d-man or winger to play with McDavid and Eberle, give me Hall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clintwestwood Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Why not keep Matthews and trade Reinhart? :sick: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Wow. Yes, this doesn't fit with your previous post at all :P Yeah, it was more about teasing Dark and everyone else who is suffering PTSD from the tank. Maybe all the losing tanked my true fandom with it but I just don't see the benefits of winning these meanings games at the end of the season when were have no real shot at the playoffs. Our playoff hopes next season are completely independent of what happens this season, whether we finish with 65 point or 85 points. Yes, the remaining games would be more fun to watch if we finish with 85 points but it's still not enough for a playoff spot and I'd rather have the stud LHD or RW that's possible with a higher pick. I don't believe in momentum carrying over from one season to the next with so many months off in between. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Yeah, it was more about teasing Dark and everyone else who is suffering PTSD from the tank. Maybe all the losing tanked my true fandom with it but I just don't see the benefits of winning these meanings games at the end of the season when were have no real shot at the playoffs. Our playoff hopes next season are completely independent of what happens this season, whether we finish with 65 point or 85 points. Yes, the remaining games would be more fun to watch if we finish with 85 points but it's still not enough for a playoff spot and I'd rather have the stud LHD or RW that's possible with a higher pick. I don't believe in momentum carrying over from one season to the next with so many months off in between. A season without a shot at the playoffs isn't a busted season. You aren't going to go from 27th to playoffs in one jump. Most liekly there is going to be a season of 20ish in there. Teams just don't normally go from awful to in the hunt over an offseason. If we jettison players every year that top 16 isn't likely, we're preventing ourselves from having that transition season. Until ROR went down, I saw no reason why this couldn't have been our transition season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 A season without a shot at the playoffs isn't a busted season. You aren't going to go from 27th to playoffs in one jump. Most liekly there is going to be a season of 20ish in there. Teams just don't normally go from awful to in the hunt over an offseason. If we jettison players every year that top 16 isn't likely, we're preventing ourselves from having that transition season. Until ROR went down, I saw no reason why this couldn't have been our transition season.Well said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) A season without a shot at the playoffs isn't a busted season. You aren't going to go from 27th to playoffs in one jump. Most liekly there is going to be a season of 20ish in there. Teams just don't normally go from awful to in the hunt over an offseason. If we jettison players every year that top 16 isn't likely, we're preventing ourselves from having that transition season. Until ROR went down, I saw no reason why this couldn't have been our transition season. A transition season isn't necessarily mandatory though, just because they seem to happen more often than not. There's nothing that says we can't improve by more than some arbitrary point total so if we finish this season at 70 we must be content with 90 points or less next season. Whether we finish this season with 65 points or 85 point has no bearing on where we'll finish next season. There's no carry over momentum or anything like that. The coaches, roster, health of the players, and how they perform next year will determine it. Edited February 22, 2016 by Drunkard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) WildCard, on 22 Feb 2016 - 3:29 PM, said:WildCard, on 22 Feb 2016 - 3:29 PM, said:WildCard, on 22 Feb 2016 - 3:29 PM, said: Why not keep Matthews and trade Reinhart? Also, Matthews is an entirely different situation. We have centers, we don't have wingers just like we don't have defense. Trade Reinhart and you set back the team's development. Reinhart has been/is a huge factor in the team's development. I think the trade-off between keeping Reinhart and trading him to keep the Matthews pick (obviously, assuming we get that pick) is too great. Not only that, he's Eichel's bud, now. It's not like Moulson who is too old to be a close bud. You could emotionally affect Eichel in a negative way trading away Reinhart "for no reason". Edited February 22, 2016 by SiZzlEmeIsTEr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 A transition season isn't necessarily mandatory though, just because they seem to happen more often than not. There's nothing that says we can't improve by more than some arbitrary point total so if we finish this season at 70 we must be content with 90 points or less next season. Whether we finish this season with 65 points or 85 point has no bearing on where we'll finish next season. There's no carry over momentum or anything like that. The coaches, roster, health of the players, and how they perform next year will determine it. Of course nothing is absolute. But look at the teams that have gone from bottom to top. Very, very rarely does it happen without a transition season. you name one that didn't have a transition season, and I'll name you an Edmonton that hasn't benefited at all from the strategy of finishing last until the playoffs are a reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 A season without a shot at the playoffs isn't a busted season. You aren't going to go from 27th to playoffs in one jump. Most liekly there is going to be a season of 20ish in there. Teams just don't normally go from awful to in the hunt over an offseason. If we jettison players every year that top 16 isn't likely, we're preventing ourselves from having that transition season. Until ROR went down, I saw no reason why this couldn't have been our transition season. Ya I agree with this. I also agree this was our transition year before ROR went down. But if we end up with 73 points instead of 83 I think you can point to ROR going down and other significant injuries as the reason why this happened. When healthy, this looks like a team on the rise. The silver lining with ROR going down IMO is I think we're starting to know the team we have going forward and we may end up with a pretty high pick. But the high pick came due to injuries and DDB figuring out lines early in the year rather than the young core not taking a step forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 This thread has some fine food for thought. Thanks, all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 (edited) Trade Reinhart and you set back the team's development. Reinhart has been/is a huge factor in the team's development. I think the trade-off between keeping Reinhart and trading him to keep the Matthews pick (obviously, assuming we get that pick) is too great. Not only that, he's Eichel's bud, now. It's not like Moulson who is too old to be a close bud. You could emotionally affect Eichel in a negative way trading away Reinhart "for no reason". I don't know about this. If you're trading Reinhart for an established, top 2 dman then I'm not sure how this would set back the development of the team. Reinhart and Eichel are buddies and that's great. Eichel is also buddies with McGinn who is likely gone next week. He will find another friend. I don't believe Eich is so emotionally fragile that it would negatively effect him if Reinhart was moved for D help. Edit - Moving Reinhart is only predicated on the assumption we somehow get the #1 pick and take Mathews. Which is obviously very unlikely. Edited February 22, 2016 by Derrico Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Derrico, on 22 Feb 2016 - 4:37 PM, said: I don't know about this. If you're trading Reinhart for an established, top 2 dman then I'm not sure how this would set back the development of the team. Reinhart and Eichel are buddies and that's great. Eichel is also buddies with McGinn who is likely gone next week. He will find another friend. I don't believe Eich is so emotionally fragile that it would negatively effect him if Reinhart was moved for D help. Edit - Moving Reinhart is only predicated on the assumption we somehow get the #1 pick and take Mathews. Which is obviously very unlikely. I'm not suggesting he would jump off a bridge, but it could jade him. Someone getting all jaded about the life they've chosen could take a year to get through the valley. I get the sense that Eichel is all about the social aspect of what he is doing, and that as his social environment stabilizes, he performs better because he's more loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 22, 2016 Report Share Posted February 22, 2016 Trade Reinhart and you set back the team's development. Reinhart has been/is a huge factor in the team's development. I think the trade-off between keeping Reinhart and trading him to keep the Matthews pick (obviously, assuming we get that pick) is too great. Not only that, he's Eichel's bud, now. It's not like Moulson who is too old to be a close bud. You could emotionally affect Eichel in a negative way trading away Reinhart "for no reason". He's also been playing with Matthews for a very long time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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