mjd1001 Posted May 20, 2015 Report Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) The leafs went into their 'tank' mode when the fired Randy Carlyle. That was just a few days into January. At the time, they were 21-16-3 and in a playoff position. It is like Shanahan had decided he would take a shot at getting McDavid in the lottery because this year was a 'wasted' year for him anyway, with the team a mid-level team and him in 'evaluation' mode. It may not be he wants to take the entire team apart...but rather take that team BEFORE firing Carlyle and improve upon it enough to make it a legit contener...That team in the first half of the season last year before the change was pretty much the same team (performance-wise) as it was the year before that and the year before that. He may be thinking the talent on the team is a borderline playoff talent team. But, he can make it a contender by adding 10 points per year to their performance by: -Reshaping the front office and scouting staff -taking 1 year to 'tank' for McDavid...failing to get him you will at least get another very good prospect. -hiring the 'best' coach in the NHL..is good for at least a few more points. I can't see Babcock joining a team and signing up for a 2-3 or 4 year rebuild. I think it is just as likely the Leafs sign some players or make some trades with the goal to compete again this year. Edited May 20, 2015 by mjd1001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beerme1 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 So they're keeping Kessel, Phanuef and JVR and that's their core? TEAM is in trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 So they're keeping Kessel, Phanuef and JVR and that's their core? TEAM is in trouble. I could see it working for a year or two. Bringing in Babcock and making some "splashes" this summer might invigorate those three for a little bit. Not a long-term strategy that I would go with, though. I could definitely see them being better (but not contender better) than the Sabres for a year or two, and then the teams would cross paths as the Sabres go up and the Leafs crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I really hope this is the route they go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I really hope the leafs suck and then get screwed at the draft lottery in 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 This team imploded due to a totally dysfunctional locker room. I don't care how good a coach is, there is no magic wand that fixes that level of internal strife. Given how bad they were down the stretch last season, I doubt these players are capable of finding the essential team bond required to turn it around so I think some big parts will have to be shipped out. Fixing teams via FAgency seldom works unless your core is able to absorb new guys without missing a beat. Toronto's core blew up. GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 If Toronto wants to build a championship contender, they have to rebuild, not retool. They simply don't have the centermen to just trade Pheneuf and/or Kessel for other pieces and start the winning train. Hell, they might not even get Strome in the draft (I really hope Arizona takes him now). Kadri is alright but nobody is building their team around him, and Nylander projects to wing at the NHL level, not center. Oh, and Bozak sucks. If Toronto does the Toronto thing and goes for a quick fix or a half-assed rebuild, they're going to be as bad to mediocre as they've been for a decade. I think they're actually going to show some resolve and be patient, but I hope not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 If Toronto wants to build a championship contender, they have to rebuild, not retool. They simply don't have the centermen to just trade Pheneuf and/or Kessel for other pieces and start the winning train. Hell, they might not even get Strome in the draft (I really hope Arizona takes him now). Kadri is alright but nobody is building their team around him, and Nylander projects to wing at the NHL level, not center. Oh, and Bozak sucks. If Toronto does the Toronto thing and goes for a quick fix or a half-assed rebuild, they're going to be as bad to mediocre as they've been for a decade. I think they're actually going to show some resolve and be patient, but I hope not. Agree with your take entirely. Even if they get Strome, I won't be impressed. That kid is a ways away from being an NHL centerman at this point. He was downright exposed in the last couple rounds of the Otters' playoffs. GO SABRES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 So they're keeping Kessel, Phanuef and JVR and that's their core? TEAM is in trouble. Adding the #4 pick this year along with Nylander and Reilly from 2 of the past 3 drafts. Kadri also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBHockey13 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I really hope this is the route they go. I do too. I hope they trade for more vets on the downside of their career, up to trading the #4 overall pick, and/or trading their # 1 next year. I hope they sign every name free agent out there, and to long term, just like they did for Clarkson. I wouldn't enjoy anything more than Babcock directing them to pick up a bunch of old Detroit players or guys whom he won gold with years ago. Who wants to bet there is no way they get rid of Phaneuf? I think the only team who would have been willing to take on him and his ridiculous contract is Babcock's Detroit. Babcock's first three captains: 1. Yzerman 2. Lidstrom 3. Zetterberg His current captain: 1. Phaneuf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 (edited) I think they are going to take the middle ground. Babcock, Shanahan, and some of the other front office guys have meetings with Kessel and Phaneuf and make sure they know this is a 'new' team, a 100% fresh start. They integrate a few young players into the roster, hope for Kadri (He might be the one traded away, I think, not Kessel) and Reilly are a year better. That, along with 1 or 2 key free agents (Shanahan/Babcock guys, whater that means) will make Shanahan and Babcock feel it is enough to compete. Beyond that, I think that Nylander and whoever they get at #4 this year will be enough to add as 'future' stars to keep things going a couple years from now. With that said, I think they are not going to blow this thing up, but try to start winning..and doing that now. I don't see a 2-3, or even 4 year rebuild happening when you just hired the 'consensus' best coach in hockey, are paying him 8+ million per year (for at least the first couple years), and a guy who says over and over that he KNOWS he lacks patience and HATES to lose. If what we hear is true and he as an 'out' after 5 years...I don't think even a 2 year rebuild makes sense now. They are going for the playoffs this year. Edited May 21, 2015 by mjd1001 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 In his presser, Babcock couldn't have been more clear that he's in for a careful rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjd1001 Posted May 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 In his presser, Babcock couldn't have been more clear that he's in for a careful rebuild. I didn't hear or read any of it...do you remember exactly what he said? I mean, did he basically come out and say he is willing to 'lose' for 2-3 years for the long term benefit? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Sounded like they are ready for a full tank process to get the draft picks they need to get top level talent into the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I'm just reading Tweets. I saw quotes about how he forecast "pain coming" and how this is going to be a "massive challenge." Also saw a quote about how did not come to compete for the playoffs - he came to be part of a Cup process. The subtext seems to be there: Complete rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 It was all about coaching on the biggest stage in Canada and winning them their first cup since '67. He doesn't lack for confidence, that's for damned sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 'Pain' is probably a nicer word than 'suffering'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 anyone listen to the presser? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Sounded like they are ready for a full tank process to get the draft picks they need to get top level talent into the organization. If they're doing this, they're going to need a first class GM with unquestioned authority over player acquisition and development. Good luck finding that with the position being sandwiched between Shanahan and Babcock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobody Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Ouch - Shanny with a dig towards Sabres process? He didn't subscribe to hiring the worst coach for a few years to begin rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 The leafs went into their 'tank' mode when the fired Randy Carlyle. That was just a few days into January. At the time, they were 21-16-3 and in a playoff position. It is like Shanahan had decided he would take a shot at getting McDavid in the lottery because this year was a 'wasted' year for him anyway, with the team a mid-level team and him in 'evaluation' mode. It may not be he wants to take the entire team apart...but rather take that team BEFORE firing Carlyle and improve upon it enough to make it a legit contener...That team in the first half of the season last year before the change was pretty much the same team (performance-wise) as it was the year before that and the year before that. He may be thinking the talent on the team is a borderline playoff talent team. But, he can make it a contender by adding 10 points per year to their performance by: -Reshaping the front office and scouting staff -taking 1 year to 'tank' for McDavid...failing to get him you will at least get another very good prospect. -hiring the 'best' coach in the NHL..is good for at least a few more points. I can't see Babcock joining a team and signing up for a 2-3 or 4 year rebuild. I think it is just as likely the Leafs sign some players or make some trades with the goal to compete again this year. The problem with Toronto not tearing everything down is that they are stuck with some huge/unflexible contracts with Kessel and Phaneuf. They don't have the flexibility to make any meaningful moves without getting rid of most of the key pieces on that team. They can't add much of value without blowing it up. Ouch - Shanny with a dig towards Sabres process? He didn't subscribe to hiring the worst coach for a few years to begin rebuild. And yet there are still folks around here that wanted to let Nolan coach out his remaining two years. He's not viewed favorably around the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Ouch - Shanny with a dig towards Sabres process? He didn't subscribe to hiring the worst coach for a few years to begin rebuild. Sour grapes on finishing 4th and losing the lottery. He wishes he thought of hiring Teds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 It was all about coaching on the biggest stage in Canada and winning them their first cup since '67. He doesn't lack for confidence, that's for damned sure. Ouch - Shanny with a dig towards Sabres process? He didn't subscribe to hiring the worst coach for a few years to begin rebuild. Won't it be grand that they will have to get through the Sabres to achieve those goals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkeygirl Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 I do too. I hope they trade for more vets on the downside of their career, up to trading the #4 overall pick, and/or trading their # 1 next year. I hope they sign every name free agent out there, and to long term, just like they did for Clarkson. I wouldn't enjoy anything more than Babcock directing them to pick up a bunch of old Detroit players or guys whom he won gold with years ago. Who wants to bet there is no way they get rid of Phaneuf? I think the only team who would have been willing to take on him and his ridiculous contract is Babcock's Detroit. Babcock's first three captains: 1. Yzerman 2. Lidstrom 3. Zetterberg His current captain: 1. Phaneuf This is such a Toronto thing to do and Babcock talks much more like a TO guy than a Buffalo guy. Gotta love how Benigni suggested the Sabres think Babcock lied to him. He didn't even want to dignify that accusation. I live with a life long leafs fan so I'll be poking fun at their continued wrong turns for many years to come. Teehehe. Word to the wise: marry within your own fan base or deal with having to spend energy on a team and a fanbase you completely hate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted May 21, 2015 Report Share Posted May 21, 2015 Might be me but i feel they overrate nylander a bit, they draft strome or hannifin though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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