nfreeman Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 If it is open season on O'Reilly, I doubt we are the front runner unless O'Reilly really wants to be here and helps the process. We've got the cap space and the futures. But someone is going to offer a defenceman that fits Colorado's age group and we arent giving up Bogosian. This has the remorseless ring of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Think i'll take a 10 day break from hockey, been reading to much rumours and all the speculation is pretty much just depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Think i'll take a 10 day break from hockey, been reading to much rumours and all the speculation is pretty much just depressing. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 ??? I think he doesn't want to lose any of our top prospects, like Grigo or Zad. Especially Grigo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I think he doesn't want to lose any of our top prospects, like Grigo or Zad. Especially Grigo. Ahhhh, he's a big Grigo fan. If it makes you feel any better Heimdall, I'm sure he's just using it as leverage to get a one way deal. I think many would be very surprised if he actually signs a KHL deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 If it is open season on O'Reilly, I doubt we are the front runner unless O'Reilly really wants to be here and helps the process. We've got the cap space and the futures. But someone is going to offer a defenceman that fits Colorado's age group and we arent giving up Bogosian. I don't think Murray is married to Bogosian. Maybe I have blinders on because I want to marry O'Reilly, but Bogosian isn't really a high end puck moving defenseman, and I think could be included in a deal as a result. He fits about half the Murray player profile, and to me half isn't enough to make him sacred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I don't think Murray is married to Bogosian. Maybe I have blinders on because I want to marry O'Reilly, but Bogosian isn't really a high end puck moving defenseman, and I think could be included in a deal as a result. He fits about half the Murray player profile, and to me half isn't enough to make him sacred. I've been super prO'Reilly (see what I did there?), but I would be pissed if Bogosian was in a deal. Bogosian, Risto, Reinhart and Eichel are my four untouchables in the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I don't think Murray is married to Bogosian. Maybe I have blinders on because I want to marry O'Reilly, but Bogosian isn't really a high end puck moving defenseman, and I think could be included in a deal as a result. He fits about half the Murray player profile, and to me half isn't enough to make him sacred. I am very against trading Bogosian for O'Reilly. We are going to need someone to actually play defense. I've been super prO'Reilly (see what I did there?), but I would be pissed if Bogosian was in a deal. Bogosian, Risto, Reinhart and Eichel are my four untouchables in the deal. I would add Zemgus to that list as well. Zemgus was our best player last year, at 21 I see no reason to trade such a player who is trending up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I've been super prO'Reilly (see what I did there?), but I would be pissed if Bogosian was in a deal. Bogosian, Risto, Reinhart and Eichel are my four untouchables in the deal. Meh. I like Bogosian and all, but really, he's a second pair Dman on a great team (which we all want the Sabres to be). I trade that for a 1st line forward all day. I am very against trading Bogosian for O'Reilly. We are going to need someone to actually play defense. I would add Zemgus to that list as well. Zemgus was our best player last year, at 21 I see no reason to trade such a player who is trending up. Hey look, more players Liger isn't willing to trade for O'Reilly :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Meh. I like Bogosian and all, but really, he's a second pair Dman on a great team (which we all want the Sabres to be). I trade that for a 1st line forward all day. Hey look, more players Liger isn't willing to trade for O'Reilly :P I don't think O'Reilly is first line forward on a good team. Sorry but Zemgus is already providing a very similar skill set to O'Reilly and is 3 years younger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I don't think O'Reilly is first line forward on a good team. Sorry but Zemgus is already providing a very similar skill set to O'Reilly and is 3 years younger. Not doing this dance again. Every stat imaginable says you're wrong about O'Reilly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Not doing this dance again. Every stat imaginable says you're wrong about O'Reilly. I remember breaking them down. You formed your opinion based off of those stats and I formed mine. Trading Bogo + or Zemgus + just doesn't seem worth it to me. Also if he is a 1st line player his trade value and contract value should be that of a first line player. Wait your right we are about to go around again. Never mind. Let's just say we disagree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) I don't think Murray is married to Bogosian. Maybe I have blinders on because I want to marry O'Reilly, but Bogosian isn't really a high end puck moving defenseman, and I think could be included in a deal as a result. He fits about half the Murray player profile, and to me half isn't enough to make him sacred. O'Reilly is worth more than Bogo, but they are from similar tiers: Bogosian is a 2/3 minute-hogging defenceman, O'Reilly is an all-situations first-line forward. Both or core players. Neither is a star. The reason I don't think Bogosian is available in a RoR trade is that you are creating a huge hole on the Sabre blueline that will take years to fill and putting a too much, too soon on Risto/Zads/Pysyk. At least we have Zemgus and Larsson to grow into the O'Reilly role. D takes longer to mature and our D isn't as deep as we tend to think it is. Edited June 17, 2015 by dudacek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I remember breaking them down. You formed your opinion based off of those stats and I formed mine. Trading Bogo + or Zemgus + just doesn't seem worth it to me. Also if he is a 1st line player his trade value and contract value should be that of a first line player. Wait your right we are about to go around again. Never mind. Let's just say we disagree! All you have to do is concede, then it'll happily agree to drop it :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 O'Reilly is worth more than Bogo, but they are from similar tiers: Bogosian is a 2/3 minute-hogging defenceman, O'Reilly is an all-situations first-line forward. Both or core players. Neither is a star. The reason I don't think Bogosian is available in a RoR trade is that you are creating a huge hole on the Sabre blueline that will take years to fill and putting a too much, too soon on Risto/Zads/Pysyk. At least we have Zemgus and Larsson to grow into the O'Reilly role. D takes longer to mature and our D isn't as deep as we tend to think it is. I agree with almost everything you said. I simply don't think Bogosian is a core piece or a 2/3 Dman--he's strictly a second pair guy to me if we aspire to be a perennial contender. I'm not eager to thin out our D corps or to force the young guys to handle the toughest minutes, but I trade a non-core player for a core player every time. We just disagree on Bogosian's value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I agree with almost everything you said. I simply don't think Bogosian is a core piece or a 2/3 Dman--he's strictly a second pair guy to me if we aspire to be a perennial contender. I'm not eager to thin out our D corps or to force the young guys to handle the toughest minutes, but I trade a non-core player for a core player every time. We just disagree on Bogosian's value. Agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 All you have to do is concede, then it'll happily agree to drop it :P When have I ever conceded? ;) I agree with almost everything you said. I simply don't think Bogosian is a core piece or a 2/3 Dman--he's strictly a second pair guy to me if we aspire to be a perennial contender. I'm not eager to thin out our D corps or to force the young guys to handle the toughest minutes, but I trade a non-core player for a core player every time. We just disagree on Bogosian's value. But O'Reilly how do we know O'Reilly will be a core guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I simply don't think Bogosian is a core piece or a 2/3 Dman--he's strictly a second pair guy to me if we aspire to be a perennial contender. This is where Bogo is now. Bogosian is a 2/3 minute-hogging defenceman, This is what I think Bogo could develop to be, even on a contender. He's a 3rd overall pick, and he's only 24 (younger than Myers by 6 months). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 When have I ever conceded? ;) But O'Reilly how do we know O'Reilly will be a core guy? The stats say he compares favorably to top line players on very good teams. Until we see it happen I suppose we don't "know" (unless you count the fluke Avs team two years ago), but everything points to it being the case. Bogosian, on the other hand, is closer to Hjalmarsson than Seabrook. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 I agree with almost everything you said. I simply don't think Bogosian is a core piece or a 2/3 Dman--he's strictly a second pair guy to me if we aspire to be a perennial contender. I'm not eager to thin out our D corps or to force the young guys to handle the toughest minutes, but I trade a non-core player for a core player every time. We just disagree on Bogosian's value. The stats say he compares favorably to top line players on very good teams. Until we see it happen I suppose we don't "know" (unless you count the fluke Avs team two years ago), but everything points to it being the case. Bogosian, on the other hand, is closer to Hjalmarsson than Seabrook. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Funny -- I was thinking of Hjalmarsson too -- not in terms of style of game, but in "core/non-core" terms. However, I think Hjalmarsson is a core piece for the Hawks -- i.e. he's not a star, but he's a rock-solid #3 defenseman and he enables them to shuffle out the #4-#7 defensemen as needed for cap management because they are very comfortable with their top 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 When have I ever conceded? ;) But O'Reilly how do we know O'Reilly will be a core guy? Of course Ryan O'Reilly is a core guy. He's Ryan Freaking O'Reilly! He's like the love-child of Chuck Norris and Teddy Bruschi and even more awesome (and responsible defensively). He can do no wrong and we must acquire him at any cost even if it means trading half our team away and paying him so much that we watch Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen walk in free agency. The guy can stick check the devil himself, and he can divide by zero. I wish he was my Dad, even though I'm like 10 years older than the guy, I'm sure he can travel through time to make it possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Of course Ryan O'Reilly is a core guy. He's Ryan Freaking O'Reilly! He's like the love-child of Chuck Norris and Teddy Bruschi and even more awesome (and responsible defensively). He can do no wrong and we must acquire him at any cost even if it means trading half our team away and paying him so much that we watch Eichel, Reinhart, and Ristolainen walk in free agency. The guy can stick check the devil himself, and he can divide by zero. I wish he was my Dad, even though I'm like 10 years older than the guy, I'm sure he can travel through time to make it possible. Meh, I like your exact same take 3 pages back better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunkard Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Meh, I like your exact same take 3 pages back better. Sorry, I used up my best material on that previous post. Kind of hard to top "He once walked down the street with a b0ner ............ there were no survivors". I just don't get the infatuation with this guy. He's a really good player and all but we have enough C/LW's and the guy seems hell bent on getting paid and the Avs seem to want a king's ransom for him. I could maybe see one or the other, but to give up quality assets and pay him a ton of money doesn't seem worth it. Edited June 17, 2015 by Drunkard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrico Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Sorry, I used up my best material on that previous post. Kind of hard to top "He once walked down the street with a b0ner ............ there were no survivors". I just don't get the infatuation with this guy. He's a really good player and all but we have enough C/LW's and the guy seems hell bent on getting paid and the Avs seem to wanted a king's ransom for him. It was more bringing Pegula into the mix the first time that did it for me. It seems there's a real disconnect between how some value Zadorov and how some value O'Reilly. I'm in the trade for O'Reilly camp if we can all but guarantee an extension is in place but I can see why there's risk in the assets being given up to acquire him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 17, 2015 Report Share Posted June 17, 2015 Sorry, I used up my best material on that previous post. Kind of hard to top "He once walked down the street with a b0ner ............ there were no survivors". I just don't get the infatuation with this guy. He's a really good player and all but we have enough C/LW's and the guy seems hell bent on getting paid and the Avs seem to want a king's ransom for him. I could maybe see one or the other, but to give up quality assets and pay him a ton of money doesn't seem worth it. Can you name a player who would be cheap to acquire, yet deserve a big contract? Or vice versa? Sorry, but high trade value and high monetary value tend to go hand in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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