Game discussion thread GDT:10-18-2014 Boston Bruins at Buffalo Sabres 7PM, MSG, WGR

[LTS]

In another WTF moment Lupul actually said something nice about Buffalo

 

 

Mark Masters @markhmasters · 4m4 minutes ago

Lupul on atmosphere at Joe: "It's fun. It's probably better energy than we get back in Toronto. It's nice when we're here or in Buffalo."

 

Cowboy fans know what it's like to have your home games seem like a road game now.

 

So here's the burning question: I just moved out to the San Fran/Bay area and have been thinking about going to the upcoming game at San Jose; given how wretched this team is performing, do I dare spend $5 on an el cheapo ticket if I can find one, or is this just going to be a waste of time & money ?

 

Yes. $5? I'd be there. If nothing else you can watch the Sharks. Perhaps you can see Scott score!

 

I don't want prospect/pick type trades. If your entertaining trading Myers add Hodgson to it and make it a big one. The only way we remotely turn this thing around is with some luck and taking a few risks. Hodgson has talent but no heart. He will never be a player to count on.

 

There is not one player in this system i look at as untouchable. And that includes Girgs. When you are this bad you have to consider everything.

This year is a lost cause. I am talikng the future. I am talking real life NHL players. Not kids with potential who are 2-5 years away. If this plan has the best possible outcome and we are a serious Cup contender in 3 years who do you think in tonights lineup is part of that team.

 

See - we have a LOOONG ways to go.

 

Let's take your thoughts here for a moment. If you trade away the only talented players on this team what are you left with? Why do you think that's an improvement? What is Murray getting for Girgensons that will improve this team more than Girgensons? There's no rationale behind your statement. Think about it, you are saying to trade away one of the only players that other teams would want and at best we'll get a chance to draft another prospect and prolong this rebuild. How does that work? How does that not get you kids with potential who are 2-5 years away? Same for Hodgson. If you are so positive of your assessment then it stands to reason that people who work in the NHL are even more aware of his shortcomings. Why would ANYONE trade for him? What GM is saying, gee, there's this guy who has no heart. You can't rely upon him for much. He might be okay, and oh by the way he has a $6M price tag. Gee let's get him. Not one of them.

 

It's bad, this is the truth and nothing will change that. No trades are going to fix it. UFA signings will only slightly improve it. This team may seem like it's far from improving but I don't think that's the case unless all of the prospects they have bottom out. They are sellers again this year but they have no one to sell to. This is part and parcel of how things have to be. At least they held the Bruins to under 40 shots and nearly outshot them for the game. I know after 2 periods they had a positive 8 Corsi. At least they were getting some pressure on the Bruins.

 

There's a long way to go and I'm not expecting anything more than a lot of losses and very little goal scoring. It is what it is. The players traded away have yielded the potential to turn the team around in time. The players traded away were not getting this team anywhere anyway. So, the decisions were either to stay with a group of players who couldn't get the team near the SC or trade them away and build a new group who might. Either way there was going to be losing and heartbreak. Either from making the playoffs and sucking enough to lose in the first round or just sucking enough to lose. Only one of those decisions however leads to potentially winning in the future.

[sicknfla]

 

 

Cowboy fans know what it's like to have your home games seem like a road game now.

 

 

 

Yes. $5? I'd be there. If nothing else you can watch the Sharks. Perhaps you can see Scott score!

 

 

 

 

Let's take your thoughts here for a moment. If you trade away the only talented players on this team what are you left with? Why do you think that's an improvement? What is Murray getting for Girgensons that will improve this team more than Girgensons? There's no rationale behind your statement. Think about it, you are saying to trade away one of the only players that other teams would want and at best we'll get a chance to draft another prospect and prolong this rebuild. How does that work? How does that not get you kids with potential who are 2-5 years away? Same for Hodgson. If you are so positive of your assessment then it stands to reason that people who work in the NHL are even more aware of his shortcomings. Why would ANYONE trade for him? What GM is saying, gee, there's this guy who has no heart. You can't rely upon him for much. He might be okay, and oh by the way he has a $6M price tag. Gee let's get him. Not one of them.

 

It's bad, this is the truth and nothing will change that. No trades are going to fix it. UFA signings will only slightly improve it. This team may seem like it's far from improving but I don't think that's the case unless all of the prospects they have bottom out. They are sellers again this year but they have no one to sell to. This is part and parcel of how things have to be. At least they held the Bruins to under 40 shots and nearly outshot them for the game. I know after 2 periods they had a positive 8 Corsi. At least they were getting some pressure on the Bruins.

 

There's a long way to go and I'm not expecting anything more than a lot of losses and very little goal scoring. It is what it is. The players traded away have yielded the potential to turn the team around in time. The players traded away were not getting this team anywhere anyway. So, the decisions were either to stay with a group of players who couldn't get the team near the SC or trade them away and build a new group who might. Either way there was going to be losing and heartbreak. Either from making the playoffs and sucking enough to lose in the first round or just sucking enough to lose. Only one of those decisions however leads to potentially winning in the future.

 

I am not saying to actively try to trade Girgs. What I am saying is nobody on this team should be off limits IF the right offer was made. That offer would have to be proven NHL players. Not picks/prospects.

 

As for Cody. Another team may feel in THEIR environment he plays to his capability. He has talent and everyone in the league knows that. I just don't think he is the kind of guy that is going to buy into the work erhic TN demands on a last place team. Therefore, regardless of his talent he becomes a cancer.

 

I feel that when GMTM finally has the team he wants to call his own it will include 3-5 of the players currently on the roster.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2014 by sicknfla

[X. Benedict]

I'm not sure what to say if anything about last night, goals from 4 different defenseman .....expect Enroth to see soft wristers from point in the next month.

 

I actually liked the Hodgson stewart opportunities. There, I said something nice.

[Gramps]

Pretty sad when the odds of the Sabres getting a regulation win in October are practically zero.

[inkman]

 

 

I am not saying to actively try to trade Girgs. What I am saying is nobody on this team should be off limits IF the right offer was made. That offer would have to be proven NHL players. Not picks/prospects.

 

As for Cody. Another team may feel in THEIR environment he plays to his capability. He has talent and everyone in the league knows that. I just don't think he is the kind of guy that is going to buy into the work erhic TN demands on a last place team. Therefore, regardless of his talent he becomes a cancer.

 

I feel that when GMTM finally has the team he wants to call his own it will include 3-5 of the players currently on the roster.

Here's the thing, Hodgson, from all accounts works extraordinarily hard off the ice. Just because he doesn't go barreling into every corner with reckless abandon doesn't mean he isn't working. My eyes tell me positionaly he has been decent this season. So what is he not doing (scoring would be a good answer)?

 

I'm not sure what to say if anything about last night, goals from 4 different defenseman .....expect Enroth to see soft wristers from point in the next month.

 

I actually liked the Hodgson stewart opportunities. There, I said something nice.

I'm hoping we see a reunited 19-25-80 soon after 23s departure

[Crusader1969]

I blame the owner because he never should have signed off on it. He had the final say.

 

I applaud the Owner for signing off on it - not many owners would.

[PASabreFan]

I contend there was no other way to rebuild that team. The young talent was struggling, and the better talent was not elite. Deadline deals for picks and the raping of Garth were the only options. Deadline deals are almost by definition players for picks and prospects.

 

Not to put words in weave's mouth, but I suspect he might have been referring to a "soft rebuild" that could have taken place during the summer of 2011 if Terry had been smart enough to clean house. A change on the fly, if you will.

 

Complete smokescreen by Murray that's why he's a genius. I still think this is the main reason why LaFontaine left. I think he wanted to keep some players and the rest of the organization was already sold on the total rebuild.

 

Who knows? Maybe everyone who has left, Ruff and Regier and LaFontaine, all quit for the same reason. Ted Talk of the Tank started while Ruff was still here, no? As for Regier, that's a still a head-scratcher for me. What was he doing wrong, Terry?

[Weave]

Not to put words in weave's mouth, but I suspect he might have been referring to a "soft rebuild" that could have taken place during the summer of 2011 if Terry had been smart enough to clean house. A change on the fly, if you will.

 

 

 

Who knows? Maybe everyone who has left, Ruff and Regier and LaFontaine, all quit for the same reason. Ted Talk of the Tank started while Ruff was still here, no? As for Regier, that's a still a head-scratcher for me. What was he doing wrong, Terry?

 

Or before 2011 ideally. We knew the leadership core post-those who will be unnamed was flawed, but the secondary players were good enough to make a run with the right leadership. It got to this point out of sheer incompetence. I will not celebrate what we are going through when it was avoidable.

Edited October 19, 2014 by weave

[Iron Crotch]

I'm not sure what to say if anything about last night, goals from 4 different defenseman .....expect Enroth to see soft wristers from point in the next month.

 

I actually liked the Hodgson stewart opportunities. There, I said something nice.

 

I like Stewart's game for the most part. People complain because his shots get blocked but he is one of the few guys on the team who actually shoots. Hodgson wasn't bad last night, although I'm generally not a fan of his game.

 

The line that was a complete disaster defensively was Nolan's new Moulson-Ennis-Gionta line (combined -9). Putting our two smallest forwards together on a line was a bad idea.

[X. Benedict]

 

 

I like Stewart's game for the most part. People complain because his shots get blocked but he is one of the few guys on the team who actually shoots. Hodgson wasn't bad last night, although I'm generally not a fan of his game.

 

The line that was a complete disaster defensively was Nolan's new Moulson-Ennis-Gionta line (combined -9). Putting our two smallest forwards together on a line was a bad idea.

 

Not too hard getting a point shot past those three.

Edited October 19, 2014 by X. Benedict

[sicknfla]

 

 

I applaud the Owner for signing off on it - not many owners would.

 

Most owners don't have fans that would accept it. Half empty arenas and nobody buying merchandise is not what they want - regardless of tv revenue.

 

DR knew we would still support this team. And we are. Like someone else mentioned. DR got fired for doing exaxtly what he told TP he was going to do. Why did he get fired? Fan outrage! Then he hires PLF/TN. Why? To calm the fans down. The guy is a clown just like the main people working for him.

[LastPommerFan]

 

 

Or before 2011 ideally. We knew the leadership core post-those who will be unnamed was flawed, but the secondary players were good enough to make a run with the right leadership. It got to this point out of sheer incompetence. I will not celebrate what we are going through when it was avoidable.

 

Yes, it would have been possible to short cycle the rebuild if it was in 2008-09. But then again, they won a division title in 2010. So really you had what you wanted then. Summer 2011 was a huge mistake (and not just by the sabres). But the biggest mistake was not blowing it up in the short season. All the reward for half the suffering.

[Weave]

Yes, it would have been possible to short cycle the rebuild if it was in 2008-09. But then again, they won a division title in 2010. So really you had what you wanted then. Summer 2011 was a huge mistake (and not just by the sabres). But the biggest mistake was not blowing it up in the short season. All the reward for half the suffering.

 

I did not have what I wanted in 2010. There were a number of us calling that team seriously flawed. Back then there were plenty of us that identified center ice and leadership as two areas in need of immediate attention. 08-09 was the time to get it right,

 

I won't support this tank. I just won't. It is wrong. Put in place by a GM trying to cover his @ss. And it goes against everything that sports is about.

[LastPommerFan]

 

 

I did not have what I wanted in 2010. There were a number of us calling that team seriously flawed. Back then there were plenty of us that identified center ice and leadership as two areas in need of immediate attention. 08-09 was the time to get it right,

 

I won't support this tank. I just won't. It is wrong. Put in place by a GM trying to cover his @ss. And it goes against everything that sports is about.

 

Specifically wins, which is what sports is all about, you had what you wanted. Yes, the roster was flawed, but that's what you get when you trade middling picks and prospects for players. It really all goes back to 2007. That's when we lost the ability to rebuild without suffering. When we lost the two biggest assets we had and got nothing in return. This is the nearly unavoidable, albeit delayed, result of that decision, whoever made it. And was made worse by the secondary decision to do the same thing on defense in the summer of 2010.

 

 

[Weave]

Specifically wins, which is what sports is all about, you had what you wanted. Yes, the roster was flawed, but that's what you get when you trade middling picks and prospects for players. It really all goes back to 2007. That's when we lost the ability to rebuild without suffering. When we lost the two biggest assets we had and got nothing in return. This is the nearly unavoidable, albeit delayed, result of that decision, whoever made it. And was made worse by the secondary decision to do the same thing on defense in the summer of 2010.

 

We'll have to disagree with the avoidability of tanking seasons.

[LastPommerFan]

 

 

We'll have to disagree with the avoidability of tanking seasons.

 

I guess I'm saying it was totally avoidable without the massive errors letting talented UFAs in critical positions walk in 2007 and 2010. Those mistakes were huge, sucking is the price we pay.

[SabresBillsFan]

All in all we as fans know this sucks going thru and I have to admit if we don't land McDavid or Eichel in this draft their will be a lot of disappointed fans not happy about going thru this. Right now if the roster stays the same until the trade deadline their is absolutely no way they don't finish last. Yes Reinhart will be sent back but Kaleta should be back soon to fill his spot. Yeah I know u don't want to hear that. But give the kids time to develop in Rochester and theirs no need to recall any of them until the injuries start mounting. Let's finish what Darcy started complete the tank. This organization is too far into this to change course now. Plus I think Murray who was a scout and the rest of the scouting staff can't wait for this draft. This draft is one of the most crucial in order to turn this team around. What sucks for us fans is that these players are still gonna need time to develop. I still think this team will be bad in 2015-16 season as well because no matter who we pick unless we get McDavid will still need more time developing.

Edited October 19, 2014 by SabresBillsFan

[Weave]

I guess I'm saying it was totally avoidable without the massive errors letting talented UFAs in critical positions walk in 2007 and 2010. Those mistakes were huge, sucking is the price we pay.

 

Those mistakes put us in the position to re-tool. I will continue to disagree with you regarding the necessity for what we see today even with those mistakes.

[LastPommerFan]

 

 

Those mistakes put us in the position to re-tool. I will continue to disagree with you regarding the necessity for what we see today even with those mistakes.

 

Best case retooling as you prescribe, what do the last 5 seasons look like?

[Weave]

Best case retooling as you prescribe, what do the last 5 seasons look like?

 

I don't know how anyone can predict that with any conviction. All I know is, improvements in areas we were deficient were there to be had. We all saw the transactions in the Around the NHL thread.

[LastPommerFan]

I don't know how anyone can predict that with any conviction. All I know is, improvements in areas we were deficient were there to be had. We all saw the transactions in the Around the NHL thread.

 

gotcha. You are completely wrong :), but i get your drift. We disagree on the value of the assets we had. I think your assessment of the value of our assets at that time is (more than) a bit Rosey. We really didn't have any great young prospects from trading high picks during the post-lockout runs, had huge questions about the value of the core, and had lost huge assets to FA. There were no trades to be made.

 

But if this wasn't inevitable, then it's easier to hate it, and I totally understand that.

[TrueBlueGED]

I don't know how anyone can predict that with any conviction. All I know is, improvements in areas we were deficient were there to be had. We all saw the transactions in the Around the NHL thread.

 

What center moved that would truly have addressed our issues there? I count one: Seguin. Am I forgetting any top line center who moved?

[Weave]

What center moved that would truly have addressed our issues there? I count one: Seguin. Am I forgetting any top line center who moved?

 

I think we could have done very well with several combinations of centers that moved during that period.

[TrueBlueGED]

I think we could have done very well with several combinations of centers that moved during that period.

 

Respectfully disagree. Once injuries ruined Roy and Connolly, that was the end of that group's run. If we could have added some of those second tier center to at least a healthy Roy, then we might have gotten somewhere.

Edited October 19, 2014 by TrueBluePhD

[SwampD]

I think we could have done very well with several combinations of centers that moved during that period.

The tank was completely unnecessary. But I guess when you've tried everything else, and you feel you already have 2 top 20 centers, so you are afraid to mortgage your glorious future on "locker room cancers" that now have 2 Stanley Cups, yeah, Iguess it's the only thing left to try.

 

The tank myth lives on.