X. Benedict Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) So what is the schedule for the combine participants? How is this any better for Buffalo than landing a weekend Shower Curtain Ring Salesman Convention with 1,000 coming into town? It does sound like cheerleading to me when people equate it with some huge competitive advantage because guys will be burning their agents phone lines up when they hit free agency so they can come to Buffalo. And if it's going to be a corn-filled turd....I hope you got that corn from one of Buffalo's Amazing Food Trucks! nah. i'm done. if you can't see any advantage to having nearly every player, agent, and scout in the league come and spend 5 days in Buffalo every summer, what is there to say? Edited June 16, 2014 by X. Benedict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Owners being involved / informed does not = owners deciding / meddling. If GM Murray has to go to Mr. Pegula and say ... "It is best for the Sabres that we buyout Ville, is that OK with you chief?" IMO, GM Murray will not be GM Murray for very long. If, on the other hand, he goes and says the exact same thing, but without the question at the end all is good. You're doing a good job. Hell, I might take the summer off myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 You can hardly blame fans for being suspicious of the competency of Sabres' management/ownership. They have kind of shot themselves in the figurative foot over the last few years in that regard, even as recently as the disastrously managed departure of PLF I get it. I'm just so fatigued with the line of conversation about whether Pegula meddles (it seems clear that he takes an active interest and hand in managing the team that he owns), to what extent he meddles (who the hell knows), whether his meddling has had a negative effect on the team's performance (his fingerprints seem to be on a few items -- e.g., the myers deal), and whether his meddling may negatively affect the current rebuild (again, who the hell knows). I don't deny that it's a worthy topic of conversation, if you're into that sort of thing. I just find myself caring less and less about this sort of stuff, and more and more just wanting to think and talk about the hockey team itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jsixspd Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I understand. There isn't much to say at this point anyways until we know if Leino's contract gets bought out or not. Plenty to discuss if he is (or isn't). :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 I guess it doesn't seem controversial to me that hosting a big NHL event like the combine (and hopefully the draft at some point) is likely to help the status of Buffalo as a hockey destination down the road. On a tangible level, the players and agents all get to see new and presumably state-of-the-art hockey facilities -- and if the city does a good job in putting its best foot forward, they get to see that Buffalo is a nice place. On an intangible level, it bolsters Buffalo's status as a hockey town. Hard to see any downside here, and there is some upside. There isn't any downside. Unless the Sabres do something stupid in logistics and planning. I'm just saying...the kids don't give 2 craps where they are. If anything, the NHL will select Buffalo because it is Podunk and there is less to do so these kids focus on their tests and interviews. There are a lot less chances to get into trouble in a landlocked hotel in a city where the drinking age is 21 than in one of the best nightlife cities in the world where it is 19. It's not a big deal. X directly countered PA, who rightly is still focused on The Buffalo Sabres Hockey team and their stated goal and performance. Once again...we get shown "amazing progress" in anything but the team....just ancillary stuff that maybe loosely can help out. We're still riding that state of the art locker room, workout facility, and nutrition station to the worst NHL record in nearly 30 years..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 There isn't any downside. Unless the Sabres do something stupid in logistics and planning. I'm just saying...the kids don't give 2 craps where they are. If anything, the NHL will select Buffalo because it is Podunk and there is less to do so these kids focus on their tests and interviews. There are a lot less chances to get into trouble in a landlocked hotel in a city where the drinking age is 21 than in one of the best nightlife cities in the world where it is 19. It's not a big deal. X directly countered PA, who rightly is still focused on The Buffalo Sabres Hockey team and their stated goal and performance. Once again...we get shown "amazing progress" in anything but the team....just ancillary stuff that maybe loosely can help out. We're still riding that state of the art locker room, workout facility, and nutrition station to the worst NHL record in nearly 30 years..... Well, they did change the coach and GM this past season, and convert two veteran stars who were leaving in FA anyway into a pretty good return. I don't think anyone is disputing at this point that you were right and that the correct move would've been for TP to have fired DR immediately upon buying the team. So we're behind schedule as far as that goes, and there hasn't been any progress in terms of wins and losses. But since the quarter-pole of this past season, I don't think you can say that they've been running in place. Are they talking more about Harbor Center and the combine than they are about wins and losses? Probably -- but doesn't every marketing effort focus on putting the best foot forward? In any case as Audsmell said, I'm looking forward (as I suspect we all are) to having some real hockey news to discuss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Well, they did change the coach and GM this past season, and convert two veteran stars who were leaving in FA anyway into a pretty good return. I don't think anyone is disputing at this point that you were right and that the correct move would've been for TP to have fired DR immediately upon buying the team. So we're behind schedule as far as that goes, and there hasn't been any progress in terms of wins and losses. But since the quarter-pole of this past season, I don't think you can say that they've been running in place. Are they talking more about Harbor Center and the combine than they are about wins and losses? Probably -- but doesn't every marketing effort focus on putting the best foot forward? In any case as Audsmell said, I'm looking forward (as I suspect we all are) to having some real hockey news to discuss. Absolutely. We have no real hockey news to talk about, that's why we are discussing a Scouting Combine that might not even come here. I would love to go to the combine myself, but I seriously doubt it's open to the public. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Absolutely. We have no real hockey news to talk about, that's why we are discussing a Scouting Combine that might not even come here. I would love to go to the combine myself, but I seriously doubt it's open to the public. The same one you were just deriding? Wilco Tango Foxtrot? Are you just contrarian for sport? Incapable of conversation? What the hell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 The same one you were just deriding? Wilco Tango Foxtrot? Are you just contrarian for sport? Incapable of conversation? What the hell? X.....you have better comprehension than that. The only thing I have derided in this conversation is the fact that you think these kids will become enamored with the city of Buffalo by coming here for 4 days and in 2023 and beyond when the first crop of combine participants becomes eligible for UFA....it would give Buffalo an advantage in signing them. That's it. I said a few months ago when it was discussed...."Cool". It's fine. It is what it is. Please tell me who is going to want to watch a bunch of these guys working out for 3 days save a bunch of Puck Bunnies, Pedos, Autograph hounds, or draft geeks? I was one of 2 dozen people left in the MSG Felt Forum for the 7th round of the NFL Draft. I'm not normal. Heck, for as "Negative" as I am portrayed...I offered everyone here a beer at the Sabres draft party last year. I don't think anyone went. This is niche stuff..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) Scenario A: Players first experience arriving in Buffalo in the dead of winter and travels between airport and FNC and stays in a hotel in a ghost town. "This place sucks!" Scenario B: 120 players arrive in May/June in nice weather and are shown top notch facilities, stay for 5 days and gave a great experience of the facility and city. Over ten years, that is 1200 players and 6000 days of free advertising. "Buffalo isn't so bad! Sure beats, Saskatoon!" Call me crazy, but scenario B is better. A is what happens now. Also having player agents come to Buffalo: A) Coming to the Sabres for credentials 4 weeks before free agency opens Or B) Going to some other team, 4 weeks before free agency opens. how can A not be better? Sure you can second guess every improvement in the short term (especially ones that involve the GM's job of overhauling the roster). But this is a long term endeavor - and these moves might help the organization 10 years after the current owner is gone. Just maybe. Long view. Edited June 16, 2014 by X. Benedict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Scenario A: Players first experience arriving in Buffalo in the dead of winter and travels between airport and FNC and stays in a hotel in a ghost town. "This place sucks!" Scenario B: 120 players arrive in May/June in nice weather and are shown top notch facilities, stay for 5 days and gave a great experience of the facility and city. Over ten years, that is 1200 players and 6000 days of free advertising. "Buffalo isn't so bad! Sure beats, Saskatoon!" Call me crazy, but scenario B is better. A is what happens now. Also having player agents come to Buffalo: A) Coming to the Sabres for credentials 4 weeks before free agency opens Or B) Going to some other team, 4 weeks before free agency opens. how can A not be better? Sure you can second guess every improvement in the short term (especially ones that involve the GM's job of overhauling the roster). But this is a long term endeavor - and these moves might help the organization 10 years after the current owner is gone. Just maybe. Long view. Honestly, I think Buffalo's biggest problems are not its city. Why would a free agent want to sign with a club that is not competing or with a club that won't commit assets to win when it is competing? I agree this would be good for it though - at the very least wouldn't hurt. However, prospects have no choice on where they go (plus we have 7 years to change their first impression). Free agents generally go for the money or at a slight discount for a cup-chance. Neither of which we have really supplied in years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Scenario A: Players first experience arriving in Buffalo in the dead of winter and travels between airport and FNC and stays in a hotel in a ghost town. "This place sucks!" Scenario B: 120 players arrive in May/June in nice weather and are shown top notch facilities, stay for 5 days and gave a great experience of the facility and city. Over ten years, that is 1200 players and 6000 days of free advertising. "Buffalo isn't so bad! Sure beats, Saskatoon!" Call me crazy, but scenario B is better. A is what happens now. Also having player agents come to Buffalo: A) Coming to the Sabres for credentials 4 weeks before free agency opens Or B) Going to some other team, 4 weeks before free agency opens. how can A not be better? Sure you can second guess every improvement in the short term (especially ones that involve the GM's job of overhauling the roster). But this is a long term endeavor - and these moves might help the organization 10 years after the current owner is gone. Just maybe. Long view. Yes...Saskatoon....and by the time they are free agents, they will have seen NYC, Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Philly, LA, Miami.....and Buffalo anywhere from 7-28 games.....between October and April..... Added LONG TERM VALUE to the franchise in hockey terms.....$5 million. Added value to Pegulaville in monetary terms.....much more. Hence, PA's objection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 (edited) Yes...Saskatoon....and by the time they are free agents, they will have seen NYC, Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Philly, LA, Miami.....and Buffalo anywhere from 7-28 games.....between October and April..... Added LONG TERM VALUE to the franchise in hockey terms.....$5 million. Added value to Pegulaville in monetary terms.....much more. Hence, PA's objection. So PA has thought this through? Why are you speaking for him? :huh: How do you come to $5 million? You can't imagine a few players removing Buffalo from their NTC list? Perhaps a free agent being okay with taking equal money in Buffalo? These things may have a tipping point. Anyway, why would more money sully the infrastructure? Edited June 16, 2014 by X. Benedict Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Shannon's +/- Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 So PA has thought this through? Why are you speaking for him? :huh: How do you come to $5 million? You can't imagine a few players removing Buffalo from their NTC list? Perhaps a free agent being okay with taking equal money in Buffalo? These things may have a tipping point. Anyway, why would more money sully the infrastructure? I don't think a combine will do anything to change minds, but I do believe that upgrading the hotels players stay in and making sure they can see the good parts of the city do matter. Considering UFA's are usually in their late 20's, or early 30's, I think the Buffalo community offers quite a bit to that demographic. Throw in the proximity to Ontario and that's something. Last point....I think the word of players who have played and lived here mean way more than experiencing a city for 3-4 days when you are 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted June 16, 2014 Report Share Posted June 16, 2014 Emerson Etem Sez: Niagara Falls....check Anchor Bar....check Navy Ship....check I don't think Marriott points were the dealbreaker...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Emerson Etem Sez: Niagara Falls....check Anchor Bar....check Navy Ship....check I don't think Marriott points were the dealbreaker...... Well, the kid from southern Cal didn't see Angola on the lake, did he? He was here in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Well, the kid from southern Cal didn't see Angola on the lake, did he? He was here in January. You mean the one currently closed for swimming because of E-Coli? :) X....the combine isn't bad. It will add some $$$ for the nearby economy. If you love the process, those 150 fans may come down and check out the buzz. But ask a kid who took a 4 week bus trip to visit 15 cities with the Jewish Youth Center at 17...."I saw Niagara Falls, we ate chicken wings.....how do you live in that sh!thole?" By the way...that was in June..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Added value to Pegulaville in monetary terms.....much more. But I know you don't think TP is developing harbor center because he thinks he's going to make a killing on downtown Buffalo real estate, innit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 Well, the kid from southern Cal didn't see Angola on the lake, did he? He was here in January. I'm with you, X. It might not bring them here, but it certainly isn't going to keep them away. Baby steps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 What a bunch of nit-picking silliness. The difference between asking for permission and informing of a decision already made is not insignificant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 The difference between asking for permission and informing of a decision already made is not insignificant. The idea that this is a decision that Tim Murray should be allowed to make without first discussing it with Terry is asinine. As others have said, this is a complete non-issue unless Terry does the unthinkable and tells Ted he won't allow a buyout of Leino. Let me know when that happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 :oops: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) The idea that this is a decision that Tim Murray should be allowed to make without first discussing it with Terry is asinine. As others have said, this is a complete non-issue unless Terry does the unthinkable and tells Ted he won't allow a buyout of Leino. Let me know when that happens. You're making it a huge issue — you and others — by suggesting Terry has a right to make a decision, until he makes one you think is crazy. Either it's a courtesy call to say "I've decided to buy out Leino" or it's Murray and Pegula deciding what to do. The half step, where Pegula is all engaged but can't decide anything, is what's asinine. Edited June 17, 2014 by PASabreFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 You're making it a huge issue — you and others — by suggesting Terry has a right to make a decision, until he makes one you think is crazy. Either it's a courtesy to call to say "I've decided to buy out Leino" or it's Murray and Pegula deciding what to do. The half step, where Pegula is all engaged but can't decide anything, is what's asinine. This entire thing is your baby. Take credit for it. There is no half step. Major financial decisions such as buying out a player under contract are not decisions that will be made without Terry being consulted and subsequently approving. This is how it works. Any speculation otherwise is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 17, 2014 Report Share Posted June 17, 2014 (edited) You're making it a huge issue — you and others — by suggesting Terry has a right to make a decision, until he makes one you think is crazy. Either it's a courtesy call to say "I've decided to buy out Leino" or it's Murray and Pegula deciding what to do. The half step, where Pegula is all engaged but can't decide anything, is what's asinine. Lulz. The GM of a company worth ~$200M is going to make a multi-million dollar decision, and he's supposed to give a mere courtesy call to the company's principal and owner that the decision is being made. Also, you're almost certainly mischaracterizing what you call the "half step." Of course, none of us know precisely how the process works, but, if other private (heck, public) sector settings are any indication (and I say they are), there's a process whereby the top dog wants to sit down, hear what a senior manager has to say, explain the why's and wherefore's, explain what the effect and fall-out will be, how this fits into an overall plan, yadda yadda. The top dog listens carefully, asks whatever questions he wants, swishes it around in his mouth, and signs off if he's satisfied that what he heard made sense. But if he hears something that does not make sense to him (for whatever reason)? And then he doesn't get a satisfactory answer? Then he's probably tabling the proposal and asking for more information, a more persuasive presentation. And, maybe as years go on, the manager earns more trust, and the process is simplified. It is almost certainly a thoroughly unremarkable protocol. Edited June 17, 2014 by That Aud Smell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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