Official 2015 NHL Draft Thread

[Derrico]

Thinking you are a 'bad' or not 'loyal, true etc.' fan because you support the tank is just plain false.

 

Sports equivalent of a suicide bomber? Man you've been towing the line lately.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Derrico

[Claude_Verret]

Just read the Leo Roth article in Rochester paper and now my blood is boiling.

 

Why are those who are Tank supporters thought of as bad fans? he says now "loyal" fans can cheer the Sabres turnaround?

why am I a disloyal Sabres fan (a fan for 40 years no less) because I believe the best way to improve the odds of the Sabres winning a cup is by sitting through 4 more months of losing hockey? There is no way I am cheering after the Sabres get totally outplayed and by some miracle pull out 2 points by winning the NHL coin flip dressed up as a shoot-out.

we argue about needing X amount of top 5 picks in the lineup needed to win the cup. the bottom line there are multiple ways of building a Stanley Cup winner but lets be honest -adding a McDavid or Eichel to the already impressive prospect pool improves the odds! Does anyone disagree??.

How are tank supporters bad fans because we want to enjoy something the Sabres haven't had since the 90's when Mogilny and Lafointaine tore the league up - a true elite forward??

 

he then points out the chances of the Sabres landing McDavid by finishing last. How many times do people haver to be hit over the head with this?? - its not about our odds of McDavid - Its about guaranteeing Eichel. Anyone who doesn't know about Eichel when they post, tweet or write articles - I then have to seriously question how much of a loyal fan that person is.

 

Rant over

 

i didn't read the article because quite frankly I'm sick of the debate. Both sides are constantly throwing up the same old tired strawmen nearly two years into this thing. For a few more months I will strongly support the tank and anyone who thinks that makes a bad fan can go fukc themselves.

[Weave]

Eichel ain't happenin no mo'.

[darksabre]

Thinking you are a 'bad' or not 'loyal, true etc.' fan because you support the tank is just plain false.

 

Sports equivalent of a suicide bomber? Man you've been towing the line lately.

 

I think it's a perfect analogy. Intentionally destroying something for the promise of salvation. That's exactly what the tank is. Destroying a team for the individual.

[PASabreFan]

Just read the Leo Roth article in Rochester paper and now my blood is boiling.

 

Why are those who are Tank supporters thought of as bad fans? he says now "loyal" fans can cheer the Sabres turnaround?

why am I a disloyal Sabres fan (a fan for 40 years no less) because I believe the best way to improve the odds of the Sabres winning a cup is by sitting through 4 more months of losing hockey? There is no way I am cheering after the Sabres get totally outplayed and by some miracle pull out 2 points by winning the NHL coin flip dressed up as a shoot-out.

we argue about needing X amount of top 5 picks in the lineup needed to win the cup. the bottom line there are multiple ways of building a Stanley Cup winner but lets be honest -adding a McDavid or Eichel to the already impressive prospect pool improves the odds! Does anyone disagree??.

How are tank supporters bad fans because we want to enjoy something the Sabres haven't had since the 90's when Mogilny and Lafointaine tore the league up - a true elite forward??

 

he then points out the chances of the Sabres landing McDavid by finishing last. How many times do people haver to be hit over the head with this?? - its not about our odds of McDavid - Its about guaranteeing Eichel. Anyone who doesn't know about Eichel when they post, tweet or write articles - I then have to seriously question how much of a loyal fan that person is.

 

Rant over

 

The worst part was suggesting the Sabres could trade their picks and stuff and get the top pick anyway.

[LastPommerFan]

You play. To win. The game.

 

The tank is dishonest. I find support of the concept to be unforgivable and weak. It's the sports equivalent of being a suicide bomber.

 

20,000 posts and you still don't understand that they players on a tank still play to win the game. :P

Edited December 18, 2014 by Glass Case Of Emotion

[dEnnis the Menace]

You play. To win. The game.

 

The tank is dishonest. I find support of the concept to be unforgivable and weak. It's the sports equivalent of being a suicide bomber.

 

It's not that I want them to lose. It's that I'm not upset when they do right now.

[darksabre]

20,000 posts and you still don't understand that they players on a tank still play to win the game. :P

 

We're not talking about the players though. We're talking about operations. You don't tank unless management and coaching is in on it. And if GMTM and Ted want to tank, then they should be fired.

 

They're not though. They're trying to build a team that knows how to win, which is clearly anti-tank, despite everyone here banging the drum in favor of it.

 

If the Sabres get McEichel through just genuinely not being good enough then that is fine. I condone that. It's not a pre-determined conclusion.

 

But to deliberately want the Sabres to lose for one player, that's where I have a problem. No one with a spine should want that.

 

It's not that I want them to lose. It's that I'm not upset when they do right now.

 

Same here. I have no problem with them just being bad. But I don't desire that they be bad. It's the difference between actively wanting and being indifferent.

[dEnnis the Menace]

We're not talking about the players though. We're talking about operations. You don't tank unless management and coaching is in on it. And if GMTM and Ted want to tank, then they should be fired.

 

They're not though. They're trying to build a team that knows how to win, which is clearly anti-tank, despite everyone here banging the drum in favor of it.

 

If the Sabres get McEichel through just genuinely not being good enough then that is fine. I condone that. It's not a pre-determined conclusion.

 

But to deliberately want the Sabres to lose for one player, that's where I have a problem. No one with a spine should want that.

 

i.e. Darcy...

 

 

Same here. I have no problem with them just being bad. But I don't desire that they be bad. It's the difference between actively wanting and being indifferent.

 

indifferent is exactly where I stand. I still love watching the games (although the losing has kind of made it more painful for my fiance.). I still root for them to kick the ###### out of Boston, Philly, Toronto, and Carolina...

[LastPommerFan]

We're not talking about the players though. We're talking about operations. You don't tank unless management and coaching is in on it. And if GMTM and Ted want to tank, then they should be fired.

 

They're not though. They're trying to build a team that knows how to win, which is clearly anti-tank, despite everyone here banging the drum in favor of it.

 

If the Sabres get McEichel through just genuinely not being good enough then that is fine. I condone that. It's not a pre-determined conclusion.

 

But to deliberately want the Sabres to lose for one player, that's where I have a problem. No one with a spine should want that.

 

Nonsense.

 

They are $11M under the cap, picked 4 times in the top 50 last year while sitting on 5 top 60 picks this year, and have at least half a dozen highly valued assets not playing in the NHL. If they wanted to win games this year, none of that would be true. This team is not built to win this year. Management has this team tanking.

[Hoss]

 

 

St. John has his draft rights.

 

 

 

Wheeler was traded midseason though, so he doesn't count.

 

And wow, I didn't even think to look at Ward and Ladd when I searched over their roster.

 

I actually knew only Ward, Ladd and Staal. Didn't think of Tverdosky and Wesley.

[darksabre]

Nonsense.

 

They are $11M under the cap, picked 4 times in the top 50 last year while sitting on 5 top 60 picks this year, and have at least half a dozen highly valued assets not playing in the NHL. If they wanted to win games this year, none of that would be true. This team is not built to win this year. Management has this team tanking.

 

I disagree. They have no reason to spend to the cap. And many of their prospects aren't ready for the bigs. This team is a result of the situation Darcy put them in. Murray filled some holes with players that I think he genuinely felt deserved a chance (Mess and Balls), brought in some vets (not like Gorges isn't a big deal), and left themselves cap room in case they decided to take on salary at the deadline (what does that have to do with tanking?)

[LastPommerFan]

I disagree. They have no reason to spend to the cap. And many of their prospects aren't ready for the bigs. This team is a result of the situation Darcy put them in. Murray filled some holes with players that I think he genuinely felt deserved a chance (Mess and Balls), brought in some vets (not like Gorges isn't a big deal), and left themselves cap room in case they decided to take on salary at the deadline (what does that have to do with tanking?)

 

They had a million options to win more games this year and chose none of them. They chose to continue to value futures over assets. This is the definition of tanking. Valuing futures over current assets. The draft is only a tiny part of it.

 

The are purposely choosing to lose a lot of games this year that they did not have to lose.

[darksabre]

They had a million options to win more games this year and chose none of them. They chose to continue to value futures over assets. This is the definition of tanking. Valuing futures over current assets. The draft is only a tiny part of it.

 

The are purposely choosing to lose a lot of games this year that they did not have to lose.

 

A million options? Let's not get crazy here. I don't think they had many options at all.

[LastPommerFan]

A million options? Let's not get crazy here. I don't think they had many options at all.

 

Samson Reinhart, 3 first round picks, and the prospects in Rochester provide you with a ton of options to trade things that are of absolutely no value to winning this year for things that are of value to winning this year.

 

Not making even 1 move in that direction is the opposite of trying to win, it's tanking.

 

They are losing now to build a better team in the future.

[shrader]

I actually knew only Ward, Ladd and Staal. Didn't think of Tverdosky and Wesley.

 

Were you even alive when Glenn Wesley was drafted?

[darksabre]

Samson Reinhart, 3 first round picks, and the prospects in Rochester provide you with a ton of options to trade things that are of absolutely no value to winning this year for things that are of value to winning this year.

 

Not making even 1 move in that direction is the opposite of trying to win, it's tanking.

 

They are losing now to build a better team in the future.

 

How are you coming to this conclusion? Doing nothing is precisely the line between indifference and actively trying to lose. If this team were tanking would GMTM not be making moves to make the team worse? I don't see that happening, so clearly this is not a tank.

[LabattBlue]

Just read the Leo Roth article in Rochester paper and now my blood is boiling.

 

Why are those who are Tank supporters thought of as bad fans? he says now "loyal" fans can cheer the Sabres turnaround?

why am I a disloyal Sabres fan (a fan for 40 years no less) because I believe the best way to improve the odds of the Sabres winning a cup is by sitting through 4 more months of losing hockey? There is no way I am cheering after the Sabres get totally outplayed and by some miracle pull out 2 points by winning the NHL coin flip dressed up as a shoot-out.

we argue about needing X amount of top 5 picks in the lineup needed to win the cup. the bottom line there are multiple ways of building a Stanley Cup winner but lets be honest -adding a McDavid or Eichel to the already impressive prospect pool improves the odds! Does anyone disagree??.

How are tank supporters bad fans because we want to enjoy something the Sabres haven't had since the 90's when Mogilny and Lafointaine tore the league up - a true elite forward??

 

he then points out the chances of the Sabres landing McDavid by finishing last. How many times do people haver to be hit over the head with this?? - its not about our odds of McDavid - Its about guaranteeing Eichel. Anyone who doesn't know about Eichel when they post, tweet or write articles - I then have to seriously question how much of a loyal fan that person is.

 

Rant over

As a fellow tanker who gets completely disgusted by the anti-tankers who want to kick me to the curb, AND disgusted by the Sabres getting thouroughly outplayed game after game, yet find a way to pull two points out of their collective ######, I AGREE 100%.

 

You play. To win. The game.

 

The tank is dishonest. I find support of the concept to be unforgivable and weak. It's the sports equivalent of being a suicide bomber.

No one is questioning if the players and coached should tank. It isn't that hard of a concept to understand. The only guy controlling the tank is Murray.

 

Eichel ain't happenin no mo'.

There is a long way to go, and a lot can happen. Enroth can come back to earth, and Edmonton and Carolina certainly have enough talent to win more often than they have through the first 1/3 of the season.

[LastPommerFan]

How are you coming to this conclusion? Doing nothing is precisely the line between indifference and actively trying to lose. If this team were tanking would GMTM not be making moves to make the team worse? I don't see that happening, so clearly this is not a tank.

 

so it's more like:

 

you play. to not completely throw. the game.

[darksabre]

 

 

so it's more like:

 

you play. to not completely throw. the game.

 

Sure. I just think if this were a tank job we wouldn't have Gorges on the team. That's not a tank move.

[MattPie]

You play. To win. The game. The tank is dishonest. I find support of the concept to be unforgivable and weak. It's the sports equivalent of being a suicide bomber.

I think it's a perfect analogy. Intentionally destroying something for the promise of salvation. That's exactly what the tank is. Destroying a team for the individual.

 

I think it's a little strong. It's more like working out or running. You do something unpleasant for awhile because you hope the end result will make you better than you were before.

 

Nonsense. They are $11M under the cap, picked 4 times in the top 50 last year while sitting on 5 top 60 picks this year, and have at least half a dozen highly valued assets not playing in the NHL. If they wanted to win games this year, none of that would be true. This team is not built to win this year. Management has this team tanking.

 

That plan is working really well for Edmonton this last 5 years.

[LastPommerFan]

Sure. I just think if this were a tank job we wouldn't have Gorges on the team. That's not a tank move.

 

I may look at is as more of a binary than it really is.

 

Either you are trying to win the Stanley cup, or you are accepting losses on purpose to be better in the future.

 

we are not trying to win the Stanley cup.

 

That plan is working really well for Edmonton this last 5 years.

 

Edmonton never had anything close to that volume of picks in a 2 year span.

[ddaryl]

They had a million options to win more games this year and chose none of them. They chose to continue to value futures over assets. This is the definition of tanking. Valuing futures over current assets. The draft is only a tiny part of it.

 

The are purposely choosing to lose a lot of games this year that they did not have to lose.

 

No they had no options but to gut and rebuild NO OPTIONS !!

 

and with the the way the team is playing the rebuild is going better than planned

[MattPie]

I may look at is as more of a binary than it really is.

 

Either you are trying to win the Stanley cup, or you are accepting losses on purpose to be better in the future.

 

we are not trying to win the Stanley cup.

 

 

 

Edmonton never had anything close to that volume of picks in a 2 year span.

 

I'd say in general, 4 (?) #1 overall picks trumps a batch of later 1sts and 2nds. That assumes the rest of the organization is competent though.

 

Now that I think of it, there's probably an odd effect to all those #1s, as someone else mentioned they're all similar players and therefore a bad mix. Edmonton could certainly be criticized for bad decisions elsewhere, but having so many #1s kind of forces your hand. No one trades out of the first pick, and the first pick is often "that" kind of player. The bold move would be for Edmonton to have traded out and picked up pieces along with not being locked into picking the skilled forward. But that's a tough sell too, since no matter what you'd be criticized that "how could they have passed on THIS_YEARS_BPA".

[darksabre]

 

 

I may look at is as more of a binary than it really is.

 

Either you are trying to win the Stanley cup, or you are accepting losses on purpose to be better in the future.

 

we are not trying to win the Stanley cup.

 

 

But we are trying to build a foundation. That's anti tank as well. You don't try to lose and also try to develop an elite defense. Or try to field two really good goalies. Or try to build Ted Nolan's HWT 2.0.