Campy Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 Hey LTS, I was definitely one of those who thought you meant something other than you evidently did. Thanks for the clarification. :thumbsup: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 LTS just triggered something.....you KNOW South Park is going to have an episode about this out in the next month or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted May 2, 2014 Report Share Posted May 2, 2014 I think people misinterpreted my "serious roots" statement. I did not intend that it was the only place it exists but that it does exist, with strong roots, in gang culture (notice, I said gang, not black gang, latino gang, white gang, etc.) So, what you describe above is an accurate statement. But to counter, I am not likely to perceive Richard Sherman as part of the following gangs: Latin Kings, Triads, Sicilian Mafia, Irish Mob, etc. Why? Because his physical features do not put him in those groups. So, the most likely comparison would be to a gang that matches his physical description. There are certainly common traits among gangs and gangs may well be full of thugs. I can summarize my views on race fairly succinctly. It's a physical trait, nothing more. As a black friend of mine growing up once said, there are (insert any slur you'd like) of every color. The ****** of one color do as much harm to the rest of their race as do the ****** of another color (I inserted the asterisks). He would be insulted when called that, not because of his color, but because of the representation that he was associated with that ***** of his color. I feel sorry for anyone who feels that any physical trait implies that a group sharing that trait is somehow inferior to others. Especially when it is a trait that has no practical meaning. It's like discriminating on hair or eye color. (don't go there). I appreciate that response - very thoughtful (characteristically so, for you). I did misunderstand what you were saying about "serious roots", so thanks for clarifying. Ha - maybe it was the term "roots" that threw me off? As for your succinct view of race, I appreciate your expressing that as well. Here's what I would say in reply: It's an unnecessary and dangerous (and, frankly, prejudicial) paradigm to say that any race or ethnicity has a subset of gergins (simple jumble there) who by their actions harm the rest of their race, creed, nationality, or ethnicity. Why should unacceptable, illegal, immoral behavior of an individual be viewed in those terms at all? I realize the inclination, the instinct, sometimes the need to do that, but I posit that behaviors of an individual should not be viewed through that prism at all. Because that's the process that leads to wrongly attributing gergin-ish behaviors or tendencies to other members of that race. We're somewhat further afield from what we started talking about, I realize. But, from where I sit, that's what happened when (most (evidently not all)) people were calling Sherman a thug for his behavior that day. They were, IMO, lumping him in (wrongly) with the gergins that they've seen on the news, in the media, or wherever. They were using his physical appearance as a cue, a guide post, and from there proceeded to make incorrect assumptions and unfounded judgments about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 I appreciate that response - very thoughtful (characteristically so, for you). I did misunderstand what you were saying about "serious roots", so thanks for clarifying. Ha - maybe it was the term "roots" that threw me off? As for your succinct view of race, I appreciate your expressing that as well. Here's what I would say in reply: It's an unnecessary and dangerous (and, frankly, prejudicial) paradigm to say that any race or ethnicity has a subset of gergins (simple jumble there) who by their actions harm the rest of their race, creed, nationality, or ethnicity. Why should unacceptable, illegal, immoral behavior of an individual be viewed in those terms at all? I realize the inclination, the instinct, sometimes the need to do that, but I posit that behaviors of an individual should not be viewed through that prism at all. Because that's the process that leads to wrongly attributing gergin-ish behaviors or tendencies to other members of that race. We're somewhat further afield from what we started talking about, I realize. But, from where I sit, that's what happened when (most (evidently not all)) people were calling Sherman a thug for his behavior that day. They were, IMO, lumping him in (wrongly) with the gergins that they've seen on the news, in the media, or wherever. They were using his physical appearance as a cue, a guide post, and from there proceeded to make incorrect assumptions and unfounded judgments about him. I agree that it is dangerous to follow that paradigm. I completely agree with what you are saying. At the same time most of our society works in that realm with everything we do. We love to relate one thing to another. Listen to sports analysis guys, "He's skates like such and such, hits like so and so." We can't help but relate one item to another and then begin projecting those traits onto them. Then we get upset when they aren't the same and we think they are inferior. It's sad really. But humanity doesn't work on individualism. It's all fun and games to say we are all different, each of us is an individual, but by and large it is lip service. We are all different, but those groups of people are the same and we don't like them because they are too sporty, too dorky, too nerdy, too trashy, too beautiful, too fat, too ugly, too ignorant, too whatever. You are free to be who you want, but someone else is going to come along and bully the crap out of you for being non-conformist. You are different, so you must be a threat, right? Total garbage but we can't help ourselves. Most people abhor change and things that are different. It brings uncertainty and they can't have that. I'm not sitting here claiming I'm innocent of it either. I just try to be conscientious of the fact that it happens then attempt to run my thoughts through that filter. And I'm glad I had the opportunity to clarify things without being skewered. For some of the childish threads that exist on this board at times it's good to note that this thread never approached that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted May 6, 2014 Report Share Posted May 6, 2014 I agree that it is dangerous to follow that paradigm. I completely agree with what you are saying. And I'm glad I had the opportunity to clarify things without being skewered. For some of the childish threads that exist on this board at times it's good to note that this thread never approached that level. I had in mind a scene in which a Will Ferrell character says "good talk", or words to that effect. But a search returns only Craig Kilborne [sic?] in Old School saying it, and Chevy Chase saying it to Rusty in the original Vacation movie. But I swear. There's a scene where Ferrell says something like that -- aren't they in a car or something when he says it? Is it Wedding Crashers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LTS Posted May 7, 2014 Report Share Posted May 7, 2014 Got me. Was it in the original vacation movie? I know Rusty said it to Chevy Chase in Christmas Vacation just before he takes the chainsaw to the tree to replace the one that was burned down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 So. He has Alzheimers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 I am somewhat amused at how everyone thinks he is such a despicable human being, but will happily give him billions of dollars. I get it, and actually agree it's worth it to make him go away, just find it a little humorous how it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 I am somewhat amused at how everyone thinks he is such a despicable human being, but will happily give him billions of dollars. I get it, and actually agree it's worth it to make him go away, just find it a little humorous how it works out. And if they're willing to force him out due to mental instability, that's one incredibly slippery slope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 And if they're willing to force him out due to mental instability, that's one incredibly slippery slope. Is it? I don't think it's unreasonable to want a mentally stable individual in control of one of your teams. Besides, he was a racist slimeball well before the Alzheimers hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Is it? I don't think it's unreasonable to want a mentally stable individual in control of one of your teams. Besides, he was a racist slimeball well before the Alzheimers hit. Yep. There are provisions in all types of agreements as to what happens if an individual is declared mentally incompetent, so there are mechanisms for handling such things. But I don't think he'd be at that level. On the other hand, I certainly agree that he was a racist slimeball long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 You just knew the reported sale wasn't going to end this saga: @SportsLawGuy W/ Sterling apparently suing NBA for $1B, this story has officially reached ludicrous speed. http://nbcnews.to/1mS8zbb https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE01sOhzz0 … Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Yep. There are provisions in all types of agreements as to what happens if an individual is declared mentally incompetent, so there are mechanisms for handling such things. But I don't think he'd be at that level. On the other hand, I certainly agree that he was a racist slimeball long ago. But can hit a mentally unstable guy with a multimillion dollar fine? To punish him for something that may very well wind up being a mental disorder, it winds up looking like the NBA rushed into things too quickly and instead it can be spun as them being insensitive to mental disorder. As for his past history of being a slimeball, they missed the boat on that one. They can't suddenly reverse course on things they ignored for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 But can hit a mentally unstable guy with a multimillion dollar fine? To punish him for something that may very well wind up being a mental disorder, it winds up looking like the NBA rushed into things too quickly and instead it can be spun as them being insensitive to mental disorder. As for his past history of being a slimeball, they missed the boat on that one. They can't suddenly reverse course on things they ignored for a very long time. If I'm the owner of an NBA team, I wouldn't be too worried about this going to jury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 But can hit a mentally unstable guy with a multimillion dollar fine? To punish him for something that may very well wind up being a mental disorder, it winds up looking like the NBA rushed into things too quickly and instead it can be spun as them being insensitive to mental disorder. As for his past history of being a slimeball, they missed the boat on that one. They can't suddenly reverse course on things they ignored for a very long time. It was $2.5 mill. To a guy that's worth $2 billion. He'll be fine. Racism isn't a mental disorder. Proceed... I am somewhat amused at how everyone thinks he is such a despicable human being, but will happily give him billions of dollars. I get it, and actually agree it's worth it to make him go away, just find it a little humorous how it works out. It's better he lives the rest of his life as a rich racist than a little less rich racist who owns a team in the public eye in a largely African American league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 It was $2.5 mill. To a guy that's worth $2 billion. He'll be fine. Racism isn't a mental disorder. I disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 I disagree. Well, I might, too. But it's not the type that can be excused and coddled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 I'm pretty sure Shrader is referring to Alzheimer's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted May 30, 2014 Report Share Posted May 30, 2014 Well, I might, too. But it's not the type that can be excused and coddled. Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 (edited) I'm pretty sure Shrader is referring to Alzheimer's. He's not being forced out due to Alzheimer's, so I'd assume he meant the racism issue. His interview with Anderson Cooper was one of the most cringe-worthy things I've ever seen. Sterling is unsightly due to his puffy, aging face... The things he said were basically worse than any recording. Edited May 31, 2014 by Tankalicious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 He's not being forced out due to Alzheimer's, so I'd assume he meant the racism issue. His interview with Anderson Cooper was one of the most cringe-worthy things I've ever seen. Sterling is unsightly due to his puffy, aging face... The things he said were basically worse than any recording. I'm putting words in Shrader's mouth here but I suspect he is saying that the Alzheimer's was in some way responsible for this guy verbalizing on tape something that rational folks in his position would never allow to be verbalized on tape. Personally, the world is better off if he takes all that money and slinks away to irrelevance. But I get what Shrader is trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted May 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 I'm putting words in Shrader's mouth here but I suspect he is saying that the Alzheimer's was in some way responsible for this guy verbalizing on tape something that rational folks in his position would never allow to be verbalized on tape. Personally, the world is better off if he takes all that money and slinks away to irrelevance. But I get what Shrader is trying to say. I would disagree if that's what Shrader is arguing. He's said and done ignorant and racist things before, and did more afterwards... So I don't think he can hide behind the disease. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 But can hit a mentally unstable guy with a multimillion dollar fine? To punish him for something that may very well wind up being a mental disorder, it winds up looking like the NBA rushed into things too quickly and instead it can be spun as them being insensitive to mental disorder. As for his past history of being a slimeball, they missed the boat on that one. They can't suddenly reverse course on things they ignored for a very long time. I understand your point, but he is way, way too lucid for this to be blamed on Alzheimer's. He may or may not suffer from that disorder, but if he does, it's not advanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted May 31, 2014 Report Share Posted May 31, 2014 I understand your point, but he is way, way too lucid for this to be blamed on Alzheimer's. He may or may not suffer from that disorder, but if he does, it's not advanced. The league needs to hope that someone so show convinced Sterling to walk away quickly. If not, the mental angle is going to be played up significantly. That Anderson cooper interview was the perfect example that not everything is there with this guy. And I'm still holding out hope that someone's got some really good info on a few owners because that's when it suddenly gets very interesting. We'd have to be very naive to think that he's the only one with a few skeletons in his closet. I do agree with you on the comment about early stages of a disease though. Even if it's not advanced, there's still something there that can make him go off the tracks quickly. Oh, but one good thing has finally come from this. I haven't heard a single mention of his girlfriend with the welders mask visors in a few days now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted June 2, 2014 Report Share Posted June 2, 2014 If I'm the owner of an NBA team, I wouldn't be too worried about this going to jury. I would, oh and he is sewing for 1 billion i read couple of days ago :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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