Jaroslav Halak and a third-round 2015 draft pick to the Capitals in exchange for goaltender Michal Neuvirth and Rostislav Klesla.

[Samson's Flow]

Can someone fix the thread title to reflect the actual trade?

 

 

This is almost exactly how I view it.

 

Moulson was worth a first but considering NO forward was traded for a first in the last 24 hours I can only assume the Market Value was not in fact a first. Having 2 2nd round picks IMPO is better than the Vanek to Montreal deal. On top of that we basically traded Thomas Vanek for 1st, 3 2nds which while not great is still a decent return. It is a very good return if you consider that the 1st and 2 of the 2nds should be in the top 1/3 of their respective rounds. It will take years to see how this shakes out but I am okay for now.

It all depends how well TM and the scouts draft for the next few years. Most of the trades we made this week seem to be banking on TM's drafting ability which shows me he feels he is confident that he can find impact players there.

[Trettioåtta]

If you rephrase your evaluation of McNabb to "Mike Weber with a better shot"...suddenly it changes things, no? Because that's my evaluation of him. McNabb is no less risky and arguably has a lower ceiling than what we got in return. FWIW, I still view it as accelerating the two second rounders to near-NHL players, and it cost McNabb (who is really in no-man's land here) to do it.

 

I dislike tossing in the 3rd in the Halak trade.

 

Moulson likely didn't fetch a ton...but none of the scorers did. Moulson in a vacuum is certainly worth a 1st...but I know you know this stuff doesn't work in a vacuum. It was a buyer's market this year, with numerous scoring forwards available. Timing sucks for the Sabres, but I hardly put that on Murray.

 

I don't necessarily blame him, but it is on him. Wringing the best from the market is what good GMs do. Did Murray start with too high a negotiation price that a lot of teams didn't even bother to counter etc. I'm not saying he did, but I think from the results, he could have done better.

 

I think McNabb is better than Weber. Especially the way Weber is playing this year. McNabb is a 5th guy who can give you a booming shot and some nastiness on the back end. Great for the playoffs. Overall the day looks like this:

 

Moulson, Rights to resign Moulson, Halak, McNabb, McCormick, 2nd 2014 (LA), 2nd 2015 (LA), 3rd 2015 (BUF)

 

for

 

Fasching, Deslauriers, Nuevirth, Mitchell, Klesla, 2nd 2014 (WPG), 2nd 2016 (MIN)

 

At best this looks like an 'meh' trade. But honestly, I think our giving side has the better players. This is in no way a defining move. We got no upper echelon prospect, and the ones we did get a years from the NHL. I guess I just don't see a real design here. This just looks a bit random. I wanted to see direction.

[deluca67]

I don't quite get the blind faith in GMTM. The guy has no track record as GM and his Sens team are not the healthiest

As far a s track record, I like the job he has done from January 9th, 2014 to March 5th, 2014. If the rest of his tenure is as promising as the first two months I'll be happy.

[darksabre]

As far a s track record, I like the job he has done from January 9th, 2014 to March 5th, 2014. If the rest of his tenure is as promising as the first two months I'll be happy.

 

At least he hasn't been a giant puss puss like Darcy. Not afraid to lose a deal to get what he wants.

[dEnnis the Menace]

If you rephrase your evaluation of McNabb to "Mike Weber with a better shot"...suddenly it changes things, no? Because that's my evaluation of him. McNabb is no less risky and arguably has a lower ceiling than what we got in return. FWIW, I still view it as accelerating the two second rounders to near-NHL players, and it cost McNabb (who is really in no-man's land here) to do it.

 

I dislike tossing in the 3rd in the Halak trade.

 

Moulson likely didn't fetch a ton...but none of the scorers did. Moulson in a vacuum is certainly worth a 1st...but I know you know this stuff doesn't work in a vacuum. It was a buyer's market this year, with numerous scoring forwards available. Timing sucks for the Sabres, but I hardly put that on Murray.

 

well put

[TrueBlueGED]

I don't necessarily blame him, but it is on him. Wringing the best from the market is what good GMs do. Did Murray start with too high a negotiation price that a lot of teams didn't even bother to counter etc. I'm not saying he did, but I think from the results, he could have done better.

 

I think McNabb is better than Weber. Especially the way Weber is playing this year. McNabb is a 5th guy who can give you a booming shot and some nastiness on the back end. Great for the playoffs. Overall the day looks like this:

 

Moulson, Rights to resign Moulson, Halak, McNabb, McCormick, 2nd 2014 (LA), 2nd 2015 (LA), 3rd 2015 (BUF)

 

for

 

Fasching, Deslauriers, Nuevirth, Mitchell, Klesla, 2nd 2014 (WPG), 2nd 2016 (MIN)

 

At best this looks like an 'meh' trade. But honestly, I think our giving side has the better players. This is in no way a defining move. We got no upper echelon prospect, and the ones we did get a years from the NHL. I guess I just don't see a real design here. This just looks a bit random. I wanted to see direction.

 

We're going to have to agree to disagree on McNabb. He's not close to a #5 guy right now, and may never be more than a 6/7. Meh.

 

I think Murray could have done better for Halak, but not for Moulson. Vanek is better than Moulson, and he only got a 2nd and a prospect who was drafted in the 2nd round this past year. Getting Moulson for two 2nds is basically in line with the talent gap there.

 

Edit: I'm not hailing Murray as a conquering hero, but I certainly don't think he did poorly.

Edited March 5, 2014 by TrueBluePhD

[Trettioåtta]

We're going to have to agree to disagree on McNabb. He's not close to a #5 guy right now, and may never be more than a 6/7. Meh.

 

I think Murray could have done better for Halak, but not for Moulson. Vanek is better than Moulson, and he only got a 2nd and a prospect who was drafted in the 2nd round this past year. Getting Moulson for two 2nds is basically in line with the talent gap there.

 

Edit: I'm not hailing Murray as a conquering hero, but I certainly don't think he did poorly.

 

So Murray did as well as Garth frickin Snow today :P

 

I hope there was champagne handed round. Quite the achievement

[deluca67]

At least he hasn't been a giant puss puss like Darcy. Not afraid to lose a deal to get what he wants.

We all have to remember, it's not about winning a trade, it's about winning the Cup.

[radiomike]

I don't necessarily blame him, but it is on him. Wringing the best from the market is what good GMs do. Did Murray start with too high a negotiation price that a lot of teams didn't even bother to counter etc. I'm not saying he did, but I think from the results, he could have done better.

 

I think McNabb is better than Weber. Especially the way Weber is playing this year. McNabb is a 5th guy who can give you a booming shot and some nastiness on the back end. Great for the playoffs. Overall the day looks like this:

 

Moulson, Rights to resign Moulson, Halak, McNabb, McCormick, 2nd 2014 (LA), 2nd 2015 (LA), 3rd 2015 (BUF)

 

for

 

Fasching, Deslauriers, Nuevirth, Mitchell, Klesla, 2nd 2014 (WPG), 2nd 2016 (MIN)

 

At best this looks like an 'meh' trade. But honestly, I think our giving side has the better players. This is in no way a defining move. We got no upper echelon prospect, and the ones we did get a years from the NHL. I guess I just don't see a real design here. This just looks a bit random. I wanted to see direction.

 

How about we wait a year or two before calling this deadline a failure? I for one am pretty pleased with the results, given the market for scorers and the fact that we'll still be terrible next year (tank!). We'll also have tons of dough to spend in FA.

[Eleven]

I don't necessarily blame him, but it is on him. Wringing the best from the market is what good GMs do. Did Murray start with too high a negotiation price that a lot of teams didn't even bother to counter etc. I'm not saying he did, but I think from the results, he could have done better.

 

I think McNabb is better than Weber. Especially the way Weber is playing this year. McNabb is a 5th guy who can give you a booming shot and some nastiness on the back end. Great for the playoffs. Overall the day looks like this:

 

Moulson, Rights to resign Moulson, Halak, McNabb, McCormick, 2nd 2014 (LA), 2nd 2015 (LA), 3rd 2015 (BUF)

 

for

 

Fasching, Deslauriers, Nuevirth, Mitchell, Klesla, 2nd 2014 (WPG), 2nd 2016 (MIN)

 

At best this looks like an 'meh' trade. But honestly, I think our giving side has the better players. This is in no way a defining move. We got no upper echelon prospect, and the ones we did get a years from the NHL. I guess I just don't see a real design here. This just looks a bit random. I wanted to see direction.

 

I agree on "meh" in general, but Fasching might be a little better than you're giving him credit for. I'd consider him to be an upper echelon prospect. Again, I don't care where he was drafted, I care what he's developed into so far.

 

 

At least he hasn't been a giant puss puss like Darcy. Not afraid to lose a deal to get what he wants.

 

Brian Burke and this board are the only people ever to say that. As above, Darcy made good, even great, trades. His faults are not figuring out that a hockey team can't have seven left wings and no centers, not understanding how the components of a team fit together (to an extent), and not figuring out how to stand up to ownership when a good team is in place.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Eleven

[Trettioåtta]

How about we wait a year or two before calling this deadline a failure? I for one am pretty pleased with the results, given the market for scorers and the fact that we'll still be terrible next year (tank!). We'll also have tons of dough to spend in FA.

 

A ton of dough to spend on who? The stars won't come here for 2 reasons, failure and Buffalo, which means we are left fighting for the middle of the pack guys. However, we need to get to the cap floor, so we end up over-paying for those guys. And guess where that leaves us? (slightly hyperbolic, but you get my point)

 

I am not calling it a failure, I am saying on the presence of today it lacks direction, feels more like we were shuffling pieces around (trading prospects, UFAs goalies and picks for prospects, UFAs, goalies and picks), and is slightly disappointing. For this day to be a true success we need those prospects to work out and for one of them to become a first line player.

 

I'm also not keen on tanking next year. Everyone seems to think tank means McDavid. To me it means finish with the 3rd overall pick and get Grigorenko-style player

[ParkMeadow]

So Murray did as well as Garth frickin Snow today :P

 

I hope there was champagne handed round. Quite the achievement

 

I'm not thrilled with today's haul on face value either.

However, since both Moulson and Halak were UFAs and likely gonzo after the season, getting what we did is sure better than a big fat goose egg.

I don't believe anyone can say that Moulson would've re-signed if we didn't trade him, unless we overpaid. And he is on the wrong side of 30 for a forward to justify a huge contract. However, I'd certainly love to see him come back as a FA in July,too.

[dudacek]

We know what Halak is - an average UFA goalie who was unlikely to be here next year and has no place in our future.

Neuvirth is under contract, can play in the NHL and is young enough to have some upside.

I don't have high hopes for him, but this trade is a guy who won't be here when we get good for a guy who could be.

 

Klesla is a salary dump/veteran fill-in/Amerk mentor and I can't believe that fans of a franchise with about 20 first and second rounders over a four-year period is worried about a third.

 

Not a bad deal at all.

Edited March 5, 2014 by dudacek

[apuszczalowski]

We know what Halak is - an average UFA goalie who was unlikely to be here next year and has no place in our future.

Neuvirth is under contract, can play in the NHL and is young enough to have some upside.

I don't have high hopes for him, but this trade is a guy who won't be here when we get good for a guy who could be.

 

Klesla is a salary dump/veteran fill-in/Amerk mentor and I can't believe that fans of a franchise with about 20 first and second rounders over a four-year period is worried about a third.

 

Not a bad deal at all.

I would have been fine with re-signing Halak and making him the #1 since he is a veteran who has put up good stats and can take the pressure off of everyone else while they try and piece things back together. But once TM basically said that he wasn't staying, I wanted them to find someone who could compete with Enroth for the #1 job and has the potential to start while someone in the minors develops and can step in. I like the idea of Neuvirth, he was supposed to be the guy in Washington and showed signs of being a decent #1 but because of issues was forced down the depth chart and wanted out. Lets see what he can do.

[26CornerBlitz]

 

Jaro, we hardly knew ya! :cry:

[nobody]

Jaro, we hardly knew ya! :cry:

 

But he got a nice new bag as a parting gift.

[Doohickie]

What's the basis for this statement?

 

Halak's amazing exploding groin.

[Peter]

 

 

I agree on "meh" in general, but Fasching might be a little better than you're giving him credit for. I'd consider him to be an upper echelon prospect. Again, I don't care where he was drafted, I care what he's developed into so far.

 

 

 

 

Brian Burke and this board are the only people ever to say that. As above, Darcy made good, even great, trades. His faults are not figuring out that a hockey team can't have seven left wings and no centers, not understanding how the components of a team fit together (to an extent), and not figuring out how to stand up to ownership when a good team is in place.

Very true -- especially the part about Brian Burke.

[MDFan]

We know what Halak is - an average UFA goalie who was unlikely to be here next year and has no place in our future.

Neuvirth is under contract, can play in the NHL and is young enough to have some upside.

I don't have high hopes for him, but this trade is a guy who won't be here when we get good for a guy who could be.

 

Klesla is a salary dump/veteran fill-in/Amerk mentor and I can't believe that fans of a franchise with about 20 first and second rounders over a four-year period is worried about a third.

 

Not a bad deal at all.

Finally some rationality. They were lucky to get anything for Halak today. Neuvirth has upside and is under contract. At the least, it puts off having to find a goaltender who is NHL ready before next season. If it was Neuvirth for a third and exchange of two UFAs I would be fine with it.

[wjag]

Today Murray has made three trades. In the first one we gave away a young lower-pairing NHL ready defenceman, two seconds for a promising but very very risky prospect and a guy who appears to be unlikely to leave the AHL. McNabb was better than the AHLer, so we traded from a B-grade prospect to a C/D prospect, gave up two second round picks for a guy who 10 months ago was seen as a very mediocre player. Admittedly he is having a good season, but Chechoo also had one of those. The Sabres have the best scouting department in the league, and Murray is meant to be a good talent evaluator; neither of these units decided that 4th rounder was worth an upper fourth or even a low third.

 

We traded Moulson, and the ability to resign a guy who expressed interest in resigning (Hello Danius), Mccormick for Mitchell and something. In doing so we took on $2.5 million in salary from Mitchell next season. Mccormick is also better than Mitchell. So we gave them cap space, a 30-goal scorer and a better 4th liner for something. Realistically, even if that is a 1st rounder, that is a low return. Moulson should have gotten at least a first for himself, if not more.

 

We traded Halak and a third for UFA Klesla and Neuvirth. In other words, we traded a better goalie, a third round and over $3 million in cash for one year of a career backup goalie. Add in that Neuvirth had demanded a trade from the Caps multiple times. They were desperate to get rid of him.

 

We gave up a lot of picks and money for very little in return, in my mind

 

This.

 

They could have kept Moulson... He was actually an NHL player. I guess there is no room on the Sabres for ACTUAL NHL players.

Edited March 6, 2014 by wjag

[SabresBillsFan]

Today Murray has made three trades. In the first one we gave away a young lower-pairing NHL ready defenceman, two seconds for a promising but very very risky prospect and a guy who appears to be unlikely to leave the AHL. McNabb was better than the AHLer, so we traded from a B-grade prospect to a C/D prospect, gave up two second round picks for a guy who 10 months ago was seen as a very mediocre player. Admittedly he is having a good season, but Chechoo also had one of those. The Sabres have the best scouting department in the league, and Murray is meant to be a good talent evaluator; neither of these units decided that 4th rounder was worth an upper fourth or even a low third.

 

We traded Moulson, and the ability to resign a guy who expressed interest in resigning (Hello Danius), Mccormick for Mitchell and something. In doing so we took on $2.5 million in salary from Mitchell next season. Mccormick is also better than Mitchell. So we gave them cap space, a 30-goal scorer and a better 4th liner for something. Realistically, even if that is a 1st rounder, that is a low return. Moulson should have gotten at least a first for himself, if not more.

 

We traded Halak and a third for UFA Klesla and Neuvirth. In other words, we traded a better goalie, a third round and over $3 million in cash for one year of a career backup goalie. Add in that Neuvirth had demanded a trade from the Caps multiple times. They were desperate to get rid of him.

 

We gave up a lot of picks and money for very little in return, in my mind

 

I don't think your looking at the big picture. McNabb couldn't make this team full time with two different coaches. And it's a last place team! Yes he's a big kid but I think Murray wants guys who can move the puck and skate. And lets face it McNabb isn't one of the best skaters. Obiviously Murray and Devine seen something in Fasching that made them want to trade for the kid. Darcy would have never made a deal like this. I like it. If they like the kid they went after him. I like what Murray is doing. Neuvirth fell out of favor with Washington but Murray see's this as his chance to rebuild himself. The kid is only 25. I like the moves today. We are building this year and next thru the draft. After a couple of years people can rip Murray for what he did or didn't do.

[deluca67]

This.

 

They could have kept Moulson... He was actually an NHL player. I guess there is no room on the Sabres for ACTUAL NHL players.

Not 30 year old's facing unrestricted free agency there isn't. Where Moulson is in his career and where the Sabres are in their rebuild don't align.

 

Fans need to stop trying to fix this years team and start looking 3-4 years down the line. If not you're going to be extremely frustrated.

[wjag]

Not 30 year old's facing unrestricted free agency there isn't. Where Moulson is in his career and where the Sabres are in their rebuild don't align.

 

Fans need to stop trying to fix this years team and start looking 3-4 years down the line. If not you're going to be extremely frustrated.

 

I've been looking 3-4 years down the road for 40 years now.

[deluca67]

I've been looking 3-4 years down the road for 40 years now.

We're all there with you.

 

Moulson at this point of his career is a final piece to a team's puzzle not a building block. Real hope is just around the corner in the form of what could be 3 top draft picks in the next two drafts.

[wjag]

We're all there with you.

 

Moulson at this point of his career is a final piece to a team's puzzle not a building block. Real hope is just around the corner in the form of what could be 3 top draft picks in the next two drafts.

 

uh huh