Samson's Flow Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I know this topic was discussed here a few years back (the last time our beloved Sabres were on the cusp of the playoffs) when the board was lamenting the ROW numbers and the inflated point totals from teams with double digit OTL that were ahead of us in the standings. There was http://grantland.com/features/at-a-loss/ article on Grantland today discussing this topic. Any chance the NHL finally gets rid of the variable nightly point system and make every game worth 2 points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't think losers should be rewarded with a point. I also don't like the shootout, but with the understanding that they'll never get rid of the shootout I think they should go to a 3-2-1 format. Three points for regulation win, two for OT and one for the shootout. None for losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assquatch Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Every game needs to be worth the same number of total points no matter how you decide to hand them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't think losers should be rewarded with a point. I also don't like the shootout, but with the understanding that they'll never get rid of the shootout I think they should go to a 3-2-1 format. Three points for regulation win, two for OT and one for the shootout. None for losers. My stance is the NHL should go back to the original 2 point for a W and nothing for a loss system, where most importantly each game is worth a set value of 2 points. That corrects the records of historical teams where 90 points gets you in the playoffs and 100 point teams are elite. In addition the overtime should be lengthened to 10 minutes or even a full 20 minute period to give a more realistic determination of the better team on a given night. Then the shootout has two options: Award the full 2 pts (0 for loser) to the shootout winner. Or award 1 pt to each team for a "tie" that goes to a shootout, and use the shootout winner as a tiebreaker in the standings only needed if teams have equal point totals at the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 My stance is the NHL should go back to the original 2 point for a W and nothing for a loss system, where most importantly each game is worth a set value of 2 points. That corrects the records of historical teams where 90 points gets you in the playoffs and 100 point teams are elite. In addition the overtime should be lengthened to 10 minutes or even a full 20 minute period to give a more realistic determination of the better team on a given night. Then the shootout has two options: Award the full 2 pts (0 for loser) to the shootout winner. Or award 1 pt to each team for a "tie" that goes to a shootout, and use the shootout winner as a tiebreaker in the standings only needed if teams have equal point totals at the end of the year. I don't hate your system, but you might as well eliminate the overtime. In the old "No points for losing in OT" system, OT was 5 minutes of the most horrible, boring hockey imaginable. I do not want to have to sit thru that ever again. I'm a fan of the 3-2-1-0 system, that makes the most sense to me, and doesn't lend itself *as much* to teams sitting back and playing for the tie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 2pts for ROW win. 1pt for shootout win. 0 for losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Loser point will stay because it keeps more teams in the playoff hunt, which generates more revenue for the teams. I've given up on the idea of losers getting 0 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't have a problem with the loser point as much as I have a problem with games sometimes being worth 2 pts and sometimes worth 3 (from an outside perspective). If I'm in 9th place and 7th is playing 8th, I'm just rooting against overtime. 3-2-1-0 where either 3 and 0 (regulation or overtime) are given or 2 and 1 (shootout) is perfect. Games are always worth 3 points, and a skills competition victory is worth less than a hockey victory. If you wanted to maintain historical points perspective you'd have to go to something silly like 2+0 (regulation and overtime) and 1.5+0.5 (shootout). I still say any scheme that results in the loser in OT getting no points is going to make for horrible hockey in overtime. I sat thru enough of that in the 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assquatch Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I still say any scheme that results in the loser in OT getting no points is going to make for horrible hockey in overtime. I sat thru enough of that in the 90s. You're right - my system breaks the original intent of the loser point. Deleting the original and editing below to fix. I don't have a problem with the loser point as much as I have a problem with games sometimes being worth 2 pts and sometimes worth 3 (from an outside perspective). If I'm in 9th place and 7th is playing 8th, I'm just rooting against overtime. 3-2-1-0 where either 3 and 0 (regulation or overtime) are given or 2 and 1 (overtime/shootout) is perfect as good as I can come up with. Games are always worth 3 points, and a skills competition victory is worth less than a hockey regulation victory. If you wanted to maintain historical points perspective you'd have to go to something silly like 2+0 (regulation and overtime) and 1.5+0.5 (overtime/shootout). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skaught Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 The current point system seems to work fine. I'm not even sure what problem you're trying to address by changing it. Don't fix what isn't broken. If it's the shootout you don't like, they could just make OT 10 minutes long, start 5 on 5 and remove a player every 2 minutes. :P EDIT: I guess I should say, I'm fine with making it less complicated, 2 points for a win, 0 for loss, but making it more complicated 3-2-1-0 etc. doesn't make any sense. That will only make it more confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 3-2-1-0 where either 3 and 0 (regulation or overtime) are given or 2 and 1 (overtime/shootout) is perfect as good as I can come up with. Games are always worth 3 points, and a skills competition victory is worth less than a hockey regulation victory. This is the system that I, among others, have been pushing for since ... well ... before this board crashed. If we get past the fact that the NFL, with its 16 games samples, can determine order well enough without loser points, but somehow the NHL with 82 game samples cannot, and just accept that some form of loser point will exist, then this is the system that makes the most sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ForTripping Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 The loser point is equivalent to the "participation trophy" awarded in youth leagues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I hate it for the fact that the last couple minutes in a tied game are almost blown off by the teams. They ease up and accept overtime. By phoning in those last 30 seconds or more, they rest up for the instant death contest rather than battling for that guaranteed 2 points. Now, that's not always the case, of course, but when it does happen I get pretty annoyed. "Oh well, at least we get a point no matter what." Consolation prize for lack of effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 If we get past the fact that the NFL, with its 16 games samples, can determine order well enough without loser points, but somehow the NHL with 82 game samples cannot, and just accept that some form of loser point will exist, then this is the system that makes the most sense. The NFL has the advantage that games only end in ties once a presidential administration, not once a night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 The NFL has the advantage that games only end in ties once a presidential administration, not once a night. If there were no points for losing and less points for winning the shootout... more games would be ROW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramps Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 2 pts for regulation/overtime win, 1 pt each if tied after 10 minute OT, ditch the shootout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 2 pts for regulation/overtime win, 1 pt each if tied after 10 minute OT, ditch the shootout Fine by me; also fine by me if they go 3-on-3 for the last 5 minutes of OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 The current point system seems to work fine. I'm not even sure what problem you're trying to address by changing it. Don't fix what isn't broken. If it's the shootout you don't like, they could just make OT 10 minutes long, start 5 on 5 and remove a player every 2 minutes. :P EDIT: I guess I should say, I'm fine with making it less complicated, 2 points for a win, 0 for loss, but making it more complicated 3-2-1-0 etc. doesn't make any sense. That will only make it more confusing. The issue that I and other pundits are trying to change is the variable amount of points on any given night. The current system allows for either two points awarded per game or three if it goes to OT/Shootout. That doesn't work for the equality of the league. For example a team could lose every game in the shootout and gain 82 points and be even in the standings with a team that wins 41 games and loses the other 41 in regulation. That's my beef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 I like the 3-2-1-0 system. It makes sense. I also didn't have a problem with ties. So I was fine with the old 2-1-0 system as well. More than 1 in 4 games this season have been 3-point games, which just doesn't sit well with me. With a 3-2-1-0 system you might get some really exciting third period hockey, especially late in the season, as some teams will need that extra point. The issue that I and other pundits are trying to change is the variable amount of points on any given night. The current system allows for either two points awarded per game or three if it goes to OT/Shootout. That doesn't work for the equality of the league. For example a team could lose every game in the shootout and gain 82 points and be even in the standings with a team that wins 41 games and loses the other 41 in regulation. That's my beef. Werd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 2 pts for regulation/overtime win, 1 pt each if tied after 10 minute OT, ditch the shootout the shootout, while I hate it, is probably not going anywhere. That's why I vote to make it 1 pt each team with the % of shootout "wins" being a tiebreaker for teams with even point totals after 82 games. Gives the least amount of weight to the skills competition that is the shootout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gramps Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Fine by me; also fine by me if they go 3-on-3 for the last 5 minutes of OT. Interesting idea - might create an extra whistle at the 5-minute mark of a 10-minute OT getting the teams down to 3x3. But would definitely be more exciting ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Interesting idea - might create an extra whistle at the 5-minute mark of a 10-minute OT getting the teams down to 3x3. But would definitely be more exciting ... Interesting idea indeed. Although that "5 min whistle" may result in a similar unintended effect like the Winter Classic this year, where Detroit has a breakaway forming when the whistle to change ends nullified the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Here's what you do... Go back to 2 points for a win, 1 for a tie and 0 for a loss. Skip the 5 minute OT and go right to the shootout. Shootout wins become the first tiebreaker in the standings. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted January 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Here's what you do... Go back to 2 points for a win, 1 for a tie and 0 for a loss. Skip the 5 minute OT and go right to the shootout. Shootout wins become the first tiebreaker in the standings. PTR This is even more elegant/cleaner than what I was talking about. No OT makes the game more TV friendly as well with a set time block for each game. You have my vote PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted January 17, 2014 Report Share Posted January 17, 2014 Here's what you do... Go back to 2 points for a win, 1 for a tie and 0 for a loss. Skip the 5 minute OT and go right to the shootout. Shootout wins become the first tiebreaker in the standings. PTR Ick. But I'm likely to say that about anything that includes the shootout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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