Hired: Tim Murray, GM and Craig Patrick, Advisor

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Owner talks to his GM every day therefore owner is an egomaniacal meddler. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

No... Pegula can talk to Murray every day, Murray will just not be here long.

 

Terry can buy an ostrich farm too....it doesn't give him carte blanche to show up every day and ask the rancher 100 questions as he's trying to do his job, then want to personally stick his arm up each one's whohaa to grab an egg.....

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, that was the first movie reference I thought of too.

 

"C'mon, guys...."

 

That's not the first thing I thought of.....

[wonderbread]

No... Pegula can talk to Murray every day, Murray will just not be here long.

 

Terry can buy an ostrich farm too....it doesn't give him carte blanche to show up every day and ask the rancher 100 questions as he's trying to do his job, then want to personally stick his arm up each one's whohaa to grab an egg.....

 

 

 

 

 

That's not the first thing I thought of.....

I was thinking the bathhouse scene from Eastern Promises.

Edited February 11, 2014 by wonderbread

[Two or less]

Nonsense.

 

They will talk everyday,

They do talk everyday.

They are going to talk everyday.

And nearly every owner does.

 

 

and Murray will be here for years, most likely. Just informative chats. Sometimes not more than a few minutes.

It is more one way than anything....but you guys can start calling him a weasel now.

 

Darcy talked to Tom Gallisano everyday too.

 

Not saying you're right, or wrong, because i don't know either way. And if i had to put money on a guess, i'd say you're right. But, what are you basing this on? Seems like a guess that is posted as a fact.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

 

 

It's just silly though. This is why...and this is what you don't see......

 

Bettman works for Terry Pegula, Murray works for Terry Pegula. They both work for Pegula.

Talking everyday is not about sexy team moves, it is mostly about the business of hockey.

 

"Bettman is asking about this Tim, how do we want to weigh in?" type of stuff.

 

Pegula doesn't just own the Sabres...he is part of a cartel that owns the league.

 

And lastly.....I give up. :D That's all I got for now.

 

Uh huh...uh huh.....and if Terry wanted to make money, he'd drill another well. But then revenue sharing is an objective of Ted Black because he is protecting the next owner of the Buffalo Sabres.

 

You are talking about a league that couldn't figure out a regular season schedule having 10 months off. Darcy was a perfect ambassador to the NHL front offices. You may have known Darcy's practices, but you don't know the new guys.

 

I'm sure one of the GR guys will ask Murray if he talks directly to Pegula each day or how often that happens.

 

I wonder how many time Pegula has called good ol' Gibby, to try to get him and corner Miller in the Olympic Village to convince him to sign an extension?

[X. Benedict]

Wow, that was the first movie reference I thought of too.

 

"C'mon, guys...."

Discos. It's all discos.

Edited February 11, 2014 by X. Benedict

[X. Benedict]

Not saying you're right, or wrong, because i don't know either way. And if i had to put money on a guess, i'd say you're right. But, what are you basing this on? Seems like a guess that is posted as a fact.

 

Let me ask you...how does a league get realigned? How do TV revenues get negotiated? Who gets outdoor games? how does a schedule get made? where do rule changes start?

 

The NHL board of governors are a competitive bunch of business guys that are more interested in each other and quorums among themselves than who the 7th defense-man on their own rosters will be. None of them like to look foolish dealing with each other.

 

Pegula is also on the AHL Board of Governors - but I think he lets Black handle most of that. But he stays informed.

 

And no, I don't know Murray - but I do know that him and Terry will have enough to talk about most days without ever getting to the discrete level of "Miller must stay" or "Time to waive Omark, Timmy"

 

But the alternate reality stuff here is entertaining.

[That Aud Smell]

SS Aud Club's version of a heavyweight debate going on up in har.

 

The certitude that, if Pegula engages in a behavior about which we know precious little, then a guy about whom we know precious little (and he likes/wants it that way) will be gone quicker than you can say Jack Robinson is, I'm with X, a bit silly.

 

I have a client who's a 3rd generation owner of a tool and die shop in central NY. He has someone else acting as president now. The plant manager reports to the president. The company was on the skids a while ago when the owner was spending all of his time in Florida, incommunicado. What helped turn it around? Well, in part, and at his bankers' urging, the owner became more involved -- communicated with the president, plant manager, and even team managers on a regular basis.

 

I know, I know -- Ehrhoff.

 

This goes back, for me, to whether the charge of 'meddling' is even an ownership 'crime'.

 

The idea that Pegula would've brought in PLF, after what appears to have been a full and frank discussion, and would've signed off on PLF bringing in TM (think TP and PLF discussed that hiring process?), and would then engage in a course of behavior that would undermine what he's put in place is -- yeah, silly.

[tom webster]

SS Aud Club's version of a heavyweight debate going on up in har.

 

The certitude that, if Pegula engages in a behavior about which we know precious little, then a guy about whom we know precious little (and he likes/wants it that way) will be gone quicker than you can say Jack Robinson is, I'm with X, a bit silly.

 

I have a client who's a 3rd generation owner of a tool and die shop in central NY. He has someone else acting as president now. The plant manager reports to the president. The company was on the skids a while ago when the owner was spending all of his time in Florida, incommunicado. What helped turn it around? Well, in part, and at his bankers' urging, the owner became more involved -- communicated with the president, plant manager, and even team managers on a regular basis.

 

I know, I know -- Ehrhoff.

 

This goes back, for me, to whether the charge of 'meddling' is even an ownership 'crime'.

 

The idea that Pegula would've brought in PLF, after what appears to have been a full and frank discussion, and would've signed off on PLF bringing in TM (think TP and PLF discussed that hiring process?), and would then engage in a course of behavior that would undermine what he's put in place is -- yeah, silly.

 

This whole Ehrhoff things is typical of how thing that are said enough become spoken as fact. I said it then and I will say it again.

First, no one knows for sure what role TP played in the decision. Second, it is not like there were more then one elite, offensive defenseman available and TP said I want that one. He liked the obvious choice. What happens next year if the team has the first pick and TP says I really like that McDavid kid! Will that be meddling?

[That Aud Smell]

This whole Ehrhoff things is typical of how thing that are said enough become spoken as fact. I said it then and I will say it again.

First, no one knows for sure what role TP played in the decision. Second, it is not like there were more then one elite, offensive defenseman available and TP said I want that one. He liked the obvious choice. What happens next year if the team has the first pick and TP says I really like that McDavid kid! Will that be meddling?

I didn't intend to give more credence to the Ehrhoff story than it's due. I just knew that would be the rejoinder: "Well, was that tool and die owner telling the Plant Manager how to calibrate the machines, what parts to run in what sequence, and whether OT was warranted on a particular job?"

 

I think I've asked for a link on the story about Pegula's having a hand in identifying Ehrhoff as a target acquisition -- not sure I've ever seen one.

 

In any case, here's my issue: I'm of a mind that people who become billionaires by dint of their own effort and ingenuity are smart people, who are capable of learning lessons from their mistakes. I think that's what we were seeing in Pegula when he brought in PLF and CP, and, in turn, TM. (And, yes, they also tend to be people with significant egos and well-developed senses of competence.)

 

OTOH, people who think that Pegula's on a path toward the inevitable sabotage of the structures he put in place appear to be of a mind that he's a fundamentally and fatally flawed character out of some tragedy (tragio-comedy?) of their own imagining. Of course, that view of the world makes for a good yarn, and it's certainly a more entertaining narrative to discuss and debate than an assessment based on the muddle, ambiguity, and incremental progress that are the hallmarks of any human endeavor.

 

It used to be Team Storm Cloud -v- Team Rainbows and Kittens (or something like that). I feel like this is Team Skeptic -v- Team Cynic.

Edited February 11, 2014 by That Aud Smell

[nfreeman]

No... Pegula can talk to Murray every day, Murray will just not be here long.

 

Well, it really depends on how long TP wants to talk and what he wants to talk about, innit?

 

There's a pretty broad spectrum between "no communication whatsoever" on one end and "TP summons TM into office every morning for an hour and calls him 5x a day to discuss TP's trade ideas."

[Claude_Verret]

Well, it really depends on how long TP wants to talk and what he wants to talk about, innit?

 

There's a pretty broad spectrum between "no communication whatsoever" on one end and "TP summons TM into office every morning for an hour and calls him 5x a day to discuss TP's trade ideas."

 

That's just it. Based on these few innocuous off the cuff quotes why does the assumption have to be that Pegula's an overbearing, micro-managing meddler vs. the some days an email exchange, some days a formal meeting meeting/conference call and some days a short hallway conversation type manager?

[That Aud Smell]

Well, it really depends on how long TP wants to talk and what he wants to talk about, innit? There's a pretty broad spectrum between "no communication whatsoever" on one end and "TP summons TM into office every morning for an hour and calls him 5x a day to discuss TP's trade ideas."

That's just it. Based on these few innocuous off the cuff quotes why does the assumption have to be that Pegula's an overbearing, micro-managing meddler vs. the some days an email exchange, some days a formal meeting meeting/conference call and some days a short hallway conversation type manager?

 

it makes for far better message board chatter if Pegula's presumed to be that sort of owner.

[PASabreFan]

This whole Ehrhoff things is typical of how thing that are said enough become spoken as fact. I said it then and I will say it again.

First, no one knows for sure what role TP played in the decision. Second, it is not like there were more then one elite, offensive defenseman available and TP said I want that one. He liked the obvious choice. What happens next year if the team has the first pick and TP says I really like that McDavid kid! Will that be meddling?

 

It's a circumstantial case, yes. The interesting piece of evidence is his daughter's Tweet during the playoffs in 2011, something to the effect that her dad likes the guy. You factor in Terry wanting to make a splash that summer and Darcy's MO and previous statements about how dubious he felt about free agency, and the case grows stronger. Finally, we have Terry's words. He seemed to be bragging one time on WGR about how other owners viewed the new kid on the block:

 

“I think if you probably talk to other owners around the league, they might think that I may spend too much money,” Pegula said. “You may hear that or whatever, but that’s my style. … You might talk to some of the other owners around the league, and they’ll tell you, ‘Who’s this new owner? What is he, crazy? Why did you give this guy money or that guy?’ Hey, it’s my decision. It was something I wanted to do.”

 

it makes for far better message board chatter if Pegula's presumed to be that sort of owner.

 

YOUR HONOR!

 

That's just it. Based on these few innocuous off the cuff quotes why does the assumption have to be that Pegula's an overbearing, micro-managing meddler vs. the some days an email exchange, some days a formal meeting meeting/conference call and some days a short hallway conversation type manager?

 

I don't want the owner to be a manager. This isn't East Resources.

[Claude_Verret]

“I think if you probably talk to other owners around the league, they might think that I may spend too much money,” Pegula said. “You may hear that or whatever, but that’s my style. … You might talk to some of the other owners around the league, and they’ll tell you, ‘Who’s this new owner? What is he, crazy? Why did you give this guy money or that guy?’ Hey, it’s my decision. It was something I wanted to do.”

 

I read that quote and get an owner responding to criticism from his not so deep pocketed peers about how he chooses to spend money. Nothing more or less.

 

I don't want the owner to be a manager. This isn't East Resources.

 

Be that as it may and like it or not, every owner in every sport or business is a manager and all with different styles. You assume that Pegula's management style bleeds into hockey decisions with nothing but flimsy circumstantial evidence to support it.

[PASabreFan]

Be that as it may and like it or not, every owner in every sport or business is a manager and all with different styles. You assume that Pegula's management style bleeds into hockey decisions with nothing but flimsy circumstantial evidence to support it.

 

Come on. There's never going to be smoking gun evidence of Pegula meddling. But ask yourself this question: It's the offseason in 2011. The Sabres go on a spending spree. Darcy's idea?

 

Be that as it may and like it or not, every owner in every sport or business is a manager and all with different styles. You assume that Pegula's management style bleeds into hockey decisions with nothing but flimsy circumstantial evidence to support it.

 

Also: It's a favorite retort to say "every owner does it." Does it make it right? What's the smart move? If we did it differently, would it give us an advantage to keep our oil and gas man out of the picture (would, of course, have to be Terry's call to do that, and he bought the team to play fantasy owner, so it's a moot point)? What hockey expertise, exactly, does Terry bring to the Sabres? What professional sports experience? How is he more qualified to do what he's doing than Deluca or dstebb or you? Would you feel great about biodork "running" the Sabres?

[MattPie]

Come on. There's never going to be smoking gun evidence of Pegula meddling. But ask yourself this question: It's the offseason in 2011. The Sabres go on a spending spree. Darcy's idea?

 

Why not? You've been squeaking along with a certain amount of cash, and suddenly your ship comes in and you're flush. Wouldn't you?

[That Aud Smell]

YOUR HONOR!

 

ha. we had our fun with the 'trial' thread. the shift from the DR regime to what's now in place has diminished my interest in that debate.

[IKnowPhysics]

There's never going to be smoking gun evidence of Pegula meddling.

 

Generally when a prosecutor figures this out, the case is withdrawn or dismissed, and they stop wasting the taxpayers' time and money.

 

[Lanny]

 

 

Come on. There's never going to be smoking gun evidence of Pegula meddling. But ask yourself this question: It's the offseason in 2011. The Sabres go on a spending spree. Darcy's idea?

The piece of evidence that raised my eyebrow was the draft video when they drafted Zadorov.

[That Aud Smell]

The piece of evidence that raised my eyebrow was the draft video when they drafted Zadorov.

 

Meh. I recall TP was there with DR, listening to Devine ask "do you want to get tougher to play against?" And the answer was a unanimous "yes." My take was that the answer arose from DR's re-tooled vision on team-building; one that the owner endorsed.

 

Let's see how draft day 2014 rolls.

[apuszczalowski]

Just because an owner talks to teh GM daily, it doesn't mean he is meddling

 

A good owner (in almost any business) will want to know whats going on and how their money is being spent. Thats not meddling, meddling would be the owner calling to tell the GM who to sign and how to GM the team.

[PASabreFan]

Why not? You've been squeaking along with a certain amount of cash, and suddenly your ship comes in and you're flush. Wouldn't you?

 

Not if I didn't believe in that way of building a team, which is almost exactly what Darcy said last spring about the events of 2011. You don't build through free agency, you add through free agency once a foundation is built. Just who was Darcy contradicting? Himself?

[apuszczalowski]

Meh. I recall TP was there with DR, listening to Devine ask "do you want to get tougher to play against?" And the answer was a unanimous "yes." My take was that the answer arose from DR's re-tooled vision on team-building; one that the owner endorsed.

 

Let's see how draft day 2014 rolls.

I would expect my owner to have a plan or an idea of the kind of team he wants. So if TP told Darcy or anyone else in the front office that he wants a tougher team, I don't consider that meddling. If he said I want Miller playing 3rd line C, and Hodgson starting in goal, then thats a bit closer to meddling.

 

Even looking at the Ehrhoff situation, if he called up Darcy and said "Hey, this Ehrhoff guy thats going to be a FA, I like him and think he should be someone we target", unless the GM disagrees saying he doesn't fit the team and the owner basically says that they go after him anyways, thats meddling.

[MattPie]

Not if I didn't believe in that way of building a team, which is almost exactly what Darcy said last spring about the events of 2011. You don't build through free agency, you add through free agency once a foundation is built. Just who was Darcy contradicting? Himself?

 

I'd say Ehrhoff fits exactly into Darcy's vision of how to build a team. Slick, puck moving defense that would QB the powerplay. Leino seemed like he would fill in the hole at C, but that was a bust obviously. If he'd worked out, he'd also be a Darcy-type forward, not particularly physical but can skate with the puck. Maybe the method of getting those players was a bit different, but the players themselves fit the mold.

[LGR4GM]

They are old school. Steam baths in the sauna.

I'd check that snap chat out :wub: