Official 2014 NHL Draft thread

[Brawndo]

Nice work Tank.

[Hoss]

Haven't checked for factuality, but holy sh*t would this be embarrassing if true...

 

@BNHarrington: @mcgoospot Sabres have no one outside round 1 since 2004 with more than 6 career goals!

 

I'll look more into it...

 

Took me about ten seconds to realize that Luke Adam and Marcus Foligno prove this to be false. And Gerbe. So three players outside of round one have more than six goals for the Sabres since 2004... Which is still a pretty bad number.

 

 

The Sabres have six players TOTAL since 2004 that have more than six career goals. He set it at six because Mike Weber has six career goals, by the way.

 

 

 

Since 2004 the Sabres have drafted 71 players. Of those players:

 

51 have never played an NHL game.

24 are no longer under organizational control (trades, never signed, released, etc.). That isn't counting guys that are clearly never going to play in the NHL/AHL. Many will join this group before long.

Just four of them (Tyler Myers, Tyler Ennis, Nathan Gerbe, Luke Adam) have ever had double-digit goal seasons in Buffalo.

 

 

 

Any scout involved with the team from that timeframe, at all, should be gone.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Tankalicious

[Rasmus_]

Haven't checked for factuality, but holy sh*t would this be embarrassing if true...

 

@BNHarrington: @mcgoospot Sabres have no one outside round 1 since 2004 with more than 6 career goals!

 

I'll look more into it...

 

Took me about ten seconds to realize that Luke Adam and Marcus Foligno prove this to be false. And Gerbe. So three players outside of round one have more than six goals for the Sabres since 2004... Which is still a pretty bad number.

 

 

The Sabres have six players TOTAL since 2004 that have more than six career goals. He set it at six because Mike Weber has six career goals, by the way.

 

 

 

Since 2004 the Sabres have drafted 71 players. Of those players:

 

51 have never played an NHL game.

24 are no longer under organizational control (trades, never signed, released, etc.). That isn't counting guys that are clearly never going to play in the NHL/AHL. Many will join this group before long.

Just four of them (Tyler Myers, Tyler Ennis, Nathan Gerbe, Luke Adam) have ever had double-digit goal seasons in Buffalo.

 

 

 

Any scout involved with the team from that timeframe, at all, should be gone.

 

Ouch, those are some stinging numbers.

[tom webster]

Haven't checked for factuality, but holy sh*t would this be embarrassing if true...

 

@BNHarrington: @mcgoospot Sabres have no one outside round 1 since 2004 with more than 6 career goals!

 

I'll look more into it...

 

Took me about ten seconds to realize that Luke Adam and Marcus Foligno prove this to be false. And Gerbe. So three players outside of round one have more than six goals for the Sabres since 2004... Which is still a pretty bad number.

 

 

The Sabres have six players TOTAL since 2004 that have more than six career goals. He set it at six because Mike Weber has six career goals, by the way.

 

 

 

Since 2004 the Sabres have drafted 71 players. Of those players:

 

51 have never played an NHL game.

24 are no longer under organizational control (trades, never signed, released, etc.). That isn't counting guys that are clearly never going to play in the NHL/AHL. Many will join this group before long.

Just four of them (Tyler Myers, Tyler Ennis, Nathan Gerbe, Luke Adam) have ever had double-digit goal seasons in Buffalo.

 

 

 

Any scout involved with the team from that timeframe, at all, should be gone.

 

Those numbers sound bad but it would be interesting to compare them to say Detroit and Boston

[carpandean]

Since 2004 the Sabres have drafted 71 players. Of those players:

 

--

Just four of them (Tyler Myers, Tyler Ennis, Nathan Gerbe, Luke Adam) have ever had double-digit goal seasons in Buffalo.

 

Not that it would help much, but to be fair, I would make three changes:

1) Exclude picks used to take goalies, since they aren't expected to score any goals. Enroth has done enough to be on-par with a 10g scorer.

2) Exclude the most recent draft(s), because not making it to the NHL or not scoring 10g is not a big deal for someone drafted last year.

3) Include those that have 10g seasons elsewhere. For example, Kassian was traded straight-up for Hodgson. Both have had 10g seasons (Kassian in Vancouver and Hodgson in both), but that pick doesn't qualify for your criteria.

 

Again, doesn't improve things much. There has been a lot of suck over those years. I aslo agree with TW that it's hard to judge without some context. How have other teams done? Actually, I might exclude top-10 (or so) picks, since some teams have had lots of picks there, while others have not.

Edited March 23, 2014 by carpandean

[Lanny]

Haven't checked for factuality, but holy sh*t would this be embarrassing if true...

 

@BNHarrington: @mcgoospot Sabres have no one outside round 1 since 2004 with more than 6 career goals!

 

I'll look more into it...

 

Took me about ten seconds to realize that Luke Adam and Marcus Foligno prove this to be false. And Gerbe. So three players outside of round one have more than six goals for the Sabres since 2004... Which is still a pretty bad number.

 

 

The Sabres have six players TOTAL since 2004 that have more than six career goals. He set it at six because Mike Weber has six career goals, by the way.

 

 

Butler and Byron as well

[rakish]

Butler and Byron as well

 

I think the tweet uses a literal definition of 'Sabres', thus not including Gerbe and Adam as well, (as long as Adam is an Amerk this week). I think it's a very tortured definition of Sabres

[rakish]

Haven't checked for factuality, but holy sh*t would this be embarrassing if true...

 

@BNHarrington: @mcgoospot Sabres have no one outside round 1 since 2004 with more than 6 career goals!

 

I'll look more into it...

 

Took me about ten seconds to realize that Luke Adam and Marcus Foligno prove this to be false. And Gerbe. So three players outside of round one have more than six goals for the Sabres since 2004... Which is still a pretty bad number.

 

 

The Sabres have six players TOTAL since 2004 that have more than six career goals. He set it at six because Mike Weber has six career goals, by the way.

 

 

 

Since 2004 the Sabres have drafted 71 players. Of those players:

 

51 have never played an NHL game.

24 are no longer under organizational control (trades, never signed, released, etc.). That isn't counting guys that are clearly never going to play in the NHL/AHL. Many will join this group before long.

Just four of them (Tyler Myers, Tyler Ennis, Nathan Gerbe, Luke Adam) have ever had double-digit goal seasons in Buffalo.

 

Any scout involved with the team from that timeframe, at all, should be gone.

 

 

Any scout involved with the team from that timeframe, at all, should be gone.

 

To paraphrase X, if you are coming to faulty conclusions, change a premise, and see if things are better.

 

You all believe that the best way to judge junior hockey players is to watch them, I believe it's a math problem. I have 2 arguments in support of this.

 

1. We, as a group (SS) can't even agree on Sabres, let alone Toronto St Michael Major players. The difference of opinion here on Stafford(with Nolan), Weber, Ennis, and Hodgson is enormous.

 

2. CSS does a terrible job at rating players. I study the 2002-2011 area, just the first 2 rounds, I don't have the 2009 CSS ranking, I use the Sports Illustrated for 2003, I'm not sure if the 2008 is the CSS final, my PDF isn't marked. Today we are taking the top North American player available when the Sabres pick. If you chose the top CSS NA ranked player available, you would get:

 

good player: Eminger, Brown, Myers, Pysic.

An OK player with Chipchura and Emmerton

Nothing: Vagner, Wharton, McArdle, Collins, Nigel Williams, Shutron, Cross, Bashirkov, Robak, Stefanovich

 

That would be terrible, and how are the CSS lists made? by scouts looking at games

 

 

 

 

 

2002 11 Sabres take Ballard, Best skater on Board is Duncan Keith or Matt Stajan, Eminger is highest NA CSS rated available, rated 6

20 Sabres take Paille, BOB Keith, Stajan, CSS: Vagner(8)

 

2003 5 Vanek BOB Vanek, Getzlaf, Perry, Shea Weber, Bergeron Sports Ill Dustin Brown(2)

 

2004 13 Stafford BOB: Stafford ,Zajak,Green CSS Kyle Chipchura(4)

43 Funk BOB: Comeau , Dubinsky CSS Kyle Wharton(13)

 

2005 13 Zagrapan BOB: Neal, Vlasic CSS Kendall McArdle(7)

48 Gogulla BOB: Adam McQuaid CSS: Dan Collins(24)

 

2006 24 Persson BOB: Foligno, Matthius, Lucic CSS: Cory Emmerton(10)

46 Enroth BOB: Matthius, Lucic CSS: Nigel Williams(13)

57 Weber BOB: Marchand CSS Ben Shutron(16)

 

2007 31 TJ Brennan BOB: PK Subban,Galliardi,Spaling CSS: Tommy Cross(12)

59 Scheistel BOB: Jamie Benn CSS Ruslan Bashkirov(35)

 

2008 12 Myers BOB Myers, Eberle CSS not sure version Myers(6)

26 Ennis BOB Ennis,John Carlson,Stepan CSS: Colby Robak(8)

44 Adam BOB Stepan,Hamonic CSS: Mikhail Stefanovich(16)

 

2009 13 Kassian BOB: Kulikov,Leddy,O'Reilly CSS: Don't have

 

2010 23 Pysyk BOB Coyle,Pysyk,Faulk,Toffoli CSS: Pysyk(9)

Edited March 23, 2014 by rakish

[Hoss]

 

 

I think the tweet uses a literal definition of 'Sabres', thus not including Gerbe and Adam as well, (as long as Adam is an Amerk this week). I think it's a very tortured definition of Sabres

 

Even then it's wrong because of Foligno.

 

 

 

Those numbers sound bad but it would be interesting to compare them to say Detroit and Boston

 

Red Wings have five non-first round picks with at least six goals.

Bruins have just two, surprisingly (Marchand and Lucic). Came in the same draft.

 

Other teams: Pens have three, Blackhawks have five and the Kings have nine.

 

So really it doesn't sound as bad like that, but these teams have players who have done so and are still on the team and continued to grow. Adam and Gerbe stopped growing and aren't in the plans while Foligno seems to have regressed since his first stint in Buffalo.

Edited March 23, 2014 by Tankalicious

[qwksndmonster]

Bruins also drafted Bergeron in the second in 2003. Seems relevant when you talk about 2nd round and beyond success and the Bruins have one of the best 2nd round home runs in the game right now.

[TrueBlueGED]

Bruins also drafted Bergeron in the second in 2003. Seems relevant when you talk about 2nd round and beyond success and the Bruins have one of the best 2nd round home runs in the game right now.

 

Is that quality drafting, or good luck? I tend to side with the latter because if they had even the slightest idea how good Bergeron was they would have taken him in the first.

[Hoss]

 

 

Is that quality drafting, or good luck? I tend to side with the latter because if they had even the slightest idea how good Bergeron was they would have taken him in the first.

 

I generally agree with this when it's about players taken in the late rounds unless the player would considered a big reach where they were taken.

[deluca67]

Is that quality drafting, or good luck? I tend to side with the latter because if they had even the slightest idea how good Bergeron was they would have taken him in the first.

It "quality drafting" and "development." That's not "good luck."

 

Even at the top end of the draft teams are drafting potential. In the case of Bergeron the Bruins saw something in Bergeron that they thought they could develop. Their success is a little more than just luck.

 

The Bruins are a top team because they have been able to maximize assets. The Sabres are where they are because of Regier's inability to maximize assets. Hopefully Tim Murray can this team around despite the damage Regier.

[Crusader1969]

March 22 RECAP Late 1st/2nd Round Prospects - WHL

 

Chase De Leo C Portland 0G 0A in 3-0 victory over Vancouver

Winterhawks lead series 2-0

 

Brycen Martin D Swift Current, 0G 0A in 4-2 loss to Medicine Hat

Broncos trail series 2-0

 

John Quenneville C Brandon 1G 1A +2 in victory over Regina

Wheat Kings lead series 1 -0 Highlights

[qwksndmonster]

Is that quality drafting, or good luck? I tend to side with the latter because if they had even the slightest idea how good Bergeron was they would have taken him in the first.

Yeah definitely luck. They drafted freakin' Mark Stuart before Bergeron. Don't let deluca hear me rip on his favorite team, though.

[Crusader1969]

March 22 Recap late 1^st/2^nd round prospects - OHL

 

Connor Chatham RW Plymouth, 0G 0A -1

Alex Peters D Plymouth 0G 0A -1+/-

Alex Nedeljkovic G Plymouth, 2GA 35SVS

 

Robert Fabbri C Guelph DNP – Injury

 

Storm win game 3-0 and lead series 2-0

 

Josh Ho-Sang C Windsor, 0G 1A -2+/- in 6-3 loss to London

Spitfires trail series 2-0

 

Brendan Lemieux LW Barrie 0G 0A -1+/- in 4-3 win over Sudbury

Colts lead series 2-0

[deluca67]

Yeah definitely luck. They drafted freakin' Mark Stuart before Bergeron. Don't let deluca hear me rip on his favorite team, though.

No worries, I quite enjoy the petty jealousies of successful franchises often expressed on the board.

 

BTW, Mark Stuart has played 487 games in the NHL and is a +40. Not a horrible pickup for the bottom third of round one.

[qwksndmonster]

No worries, I quite enjoy the petty jealousies of successful franchises often expressed on the board.

 

BTW, Mark Stuart has played 487 games in the NHL and is a +40. Not a horrible pickup for the bottom third of round one.

You love washing the not-sabres' balls, I know.

 

And a 3rd pairing defenseman doesn't excite me, I don't know about you.

[deluca67]

You love washing the not-sabres' balls, I know.

 

And a 3rd pairing defenseman doesn't excite me, I don't know about you.

Appreciating the successful teams and what they do to become and maintain their success is "ball washing?" A great example of the petty jealousies I referred to. I'm sure you have more examples in you. Keep them coming. :thumbsup:

 

A 3rd pairing defenseman and a #1 center is a pretty decent draft the Bruins had in 2003.

[Johnny DangerFace]

I would not mind the undersized ho-sang joining the buffalo pipeline. Sure him and Ennis would be two small top six forwards but the kid can score.

 

Also I know it's early but eichel might be the top player in the 2015 draft

[Crusader1969]

March 23 recap late first / early 2nd round prospects SEL

 

Kevin Fiala C HV71, 0G 0A in loss to Skellefteå AIK

HV71 lose series 4-1. Season Over

 

Jakub Vrána RW Linköpings HC, 0G 0A -1+/- in 6-2 loss to Frölunda HC

Linköpings HC trail series 3-2

[TrueBlueGED]

No worries, I quite enjoy the petty jealousies of successful franchises often expressed on the board.

 

BTW, Mark Stuart has played 487 games in the NHL and is a +40. Not a horrible pickup for the bottom third of round one.

 

The point is Boston thought he was the better pick than Bergeron. Just because Bergeron ended up panning out in a big way doesn't mean it's evidence of Boston being a great drafting team.

[deluca67]

The point is Boston thought he was the better pick than Bergeron. Just because Bergeron ended up panning out in a big way doesn't mean it's evidence of Boston being a great drafting team.

Again, it's "drafting" and developing. There are many reasons the Bruins drafted Stuart first than Bergeron 24 picks later, need being one of them. The Bruins deserve full credit for drafting Bergeron at #45 in 2003 and developing him into one the leagues top centers. It's more than luck when you go through the process and are rewarded for doing right.

[Hoss]

The loss tonight guarantees that the Sabres can finish no better than sixth place which locks up, at least, the seventh overall pick. If the Sabres keep the pick then it would be the highest selection the team has made since taking Vanek 5th overall in 2003.

 

The team has drafted 7th overall or better nine times: Thomas Vanek (5th in 2003), Erik Rasmussen (7th in 1996), Pierre Turgeon (1st in 1987), Shawn Anderson (5th in 1986), Tom Barrasso (5th in 1983), Phil Housley (6th in 1982), Jim Schoenfeld (5th in 1972), Rick Martin (5th in 1971) and Gilbert Perreault (1st in 1970).

[qwksndmonster]

Appreciating the successful teams and what they do to become and maintain their success is "ball washing?" A great example of the petty jealousies I referred to. I'm sure you have more examples in you. Keep them coming. :thumbsup:

 

A 3rd pairing defenseman and a #1 center is a pretty decent draft the Bruins had in 2003.

There's appreciating. I enjoy watching the Bruins, the Penguins, the Avs, and the Blues and I appreciate the level of hockey they put on the ice. But, I don't go out of my way to defend their honor on a team specific message board... That's just different.