Darcy Regier, do you trust him with the rebuild?

[Weave]

I asked a simple question, no need to come back with a snide comment.

 

And what did most here and people league-wide say when they signed him? Most in the league considered it the best find and best signing of the day. It's not Darcy fault he regressed under Lindy like many do. he's cap space that we could have used on a different player that could have made a difference, ie. opportunity cost. Just because he was 2nd best available didn't make it a good idea to sign him. yes, alot of us liked the signing. We're fans. he's a pro. He should have had a more accurate evaluation of how it would work. He didn't. We sunk opportunity costs.

 

He was a free agent, what was he supposed to do? Trade away his rights without a contract and get in return pretty much what we could get for him now? He was an RFA, not a UFA. Huge difference in value. It should have happened. And by signing him again we run into the opportunity cost conundrum again.

 

Really? I'll agree here. This is relatively minor

 

Good point, what team wouldn't want to trade with BFLO when half the guys available couldn't pass a physical. there were assets to move. Maybe one of the poor signings, like Stafford would have been a smart play

 

He set it up to draft two centers and prepare for the future just like everybody wanted. You and I both know the asking price was way too high to bring in a stud center. He could have blown draft picks to get one and then you'd be here bitching that we still weren't going to make the playoffs and now be short on draft picks, all while said center wants out of town to be on a winner. Stud? Hell, he didn't even bring in a bottom 6 center. We needed depth as much as anything. And we def needed short term help. and we didn't need to give up picks to get it. There was depth available in the offseason, Halpern and Wellwood immediately come to mind. Darcy chose to run with what he had.

 

I agree, it's a little much. I've lost patience with him, he could still be worth building around. I still think he is easily tradeable.

 

Again, I'll go back to my point that the problem is the regression of players pre-Pegula. This is dependent on the fact you agree with my previous points. If you can't see that the Gaustad trade, Ott trade, P-ville trade and Hodgson trade were all solid moves then I don't know what more to say. Don't you think that Regier has some responsibility for that regression? Shouldn't Darcy had foreseen the causes leading to the regression? at the end of the day, success of a group is always the responsibility of the group leader. Ultimately that is Darcy.

 

changing color is easier than separating out all of the little quotes.

[JJFIVEOH]

changing color is easier than separating out all of the little quotes.

 

Although it makes it rather diffiult to reply.

[JJFIVEOH]

changing color is easier than separating out all of the little quotes.

 

-Make an evaluation of why Leino didn't work? Was he supposed to ask Leino whether or not he would get along with Lindy? Seems he might be worth the money under somebody else from what little we've seen of him this year. The verdict should still be out.

-Whether Stafford was an RFA or not, no team is going to give up much without a contract. They certainly weren't going to give up as much as most people think based on one good year. Hence the "small" $4 mil contract.

-What could Darcy have done when half the team was injured? Who was he going to move, and for what, that would have made up for 10 guys out of the lineup?

-Short term or long term? You guys need to make up your minds. You've been crying to blow it up for a couple of years, but now you want immediate help? THIS is what I mean by people having all basis covered. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Who was Darcy going to give up, if not for picks, to bring in a stud center when we didn't have depth to begin with, much less trade with? I'd actually like to hear the answer to this one.

-No, Darcy isn't solely responsible for the regression. If a GM could tell if/when a player is going to regress, he would be making millions. It's up to the rest of the coaching staff and the player to make sure they don't regress.

[tom webster]

-Make an evaluation of why Leino didn't work? Was he supposed to ask Leino whether or not he would get along with Lindy? Seems he might be worth the money under somebody else from what little we've seen of him this year. The verdict should still be out.

-Whether Stafford was an RFA or not, no team is going to give up much without a contract. They certainly weren't going to give up as much as most people think based on one good year. Hence the "small" $4 mil contract.

-What could Darcy have done when half the team was injured? Who was he going to move, and for what, that would have made up for 10 guys out of the lineup?

-Short term or long term? You guys need to make up your minds. You've been crying to blow it up for a couple of years, but now you want immediate help? THIS is what I mean by people having all basis covered. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Who was Darcy going to give up, if not for picks, to bring in a stud center when we didn't have depth to begin with, much less trade with? I'd actually like to hear the answer to this one.

-No, Darcy isn't solely responsible for the regression. If a GM could tell if/when a player is going to regress, he would be making millions. It's up to the rest of the coaching staff and the player to make sure they don't regress.

 

Winners stay quiet

Losers create charts, graphs, examples and revisionist history to document their excuses, I mean failures.

Darcy hired the coach, acquired the players. The results speak for themselves.

[spndnchz]

All I know is that since Pegula has been here, the Sabres have spent up to 97% of the cap on average, Thrown in another $25 million in bonus payments over the cap, burried millions of dollars in the minors or overseas......and with all those extra resources, still will have managed in 3 years to play a little over 1 week's worth of playoff games.

 

Seems pretty obvious to me what the verdict should be.

 

You do know that the cap includes that thrown in bonus money. Oh okay. Carry on.

[qwksndmonster]

Ehrhoff has made $35 million over the past three seasons and Leino has made $25 mil. Leino has been a disaster and Ehrhoff has been good, just not $35 mil good. When you shell out $60 mil you need difference makes, neither qualify as difference makers.

Real $$ is irrelevant. Cap hit is what it's all about.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

You do know that the cap includes that thrown in bonus money. Oh okay. Carry on.

 

Cap money over 10 and 7 year contracts.....the huge cash bonuses went above what the cap was. Point being, an owner with less resources can't hand out $12 million to Myers this year or $10 million to Ehrhoff last year. They can't get an extra pick to take $3 million of Kotalik then ship him overseas or bury Morrisson. We have the most resources of any team in the league....used them above and beyond what 85% of the league can do.....yet we still have sucked for 3 years since Pegula took over.

 

We mortaged the future of salary cap in order to be good now....and we aren't even average.

 

That's all the advanced analytics I need to see.

[qwksndmonster]

We mortaged the future of salary cap in order to be good now....and we aren't even average.

 

That's all the advanced analytics I need to see.

Huh? We're pretty fine on cap space right now.

[Robviously]

I don't think the whole "hindsight is 20/20" is a viable defense of Regier, because if it is then it can be used in perpetuity--nothing can ever be his fault as long as it's a good idea at the time. We're all judged with the benefit of hindsight. If I come up with a brilliant theory about politics, which everyone agrees is great, and then I test it and the data doesn't support it, guess what? An academic journal isn't going to publish me and help my career just because at the time it seemed to be right--it needs to turn out to be right.

"Hindsight" isn't a viable defense because all of the problems with those moves were apparent when they were made.

 

Stafford had a ton of red flags when he was RFA. And anyone could look at Leino's career numbers and realize we really overpaid to bring him in (to play a new position, by the way). The Myers signing happened too soon; why give someone that young a huge contract (and all the expectations that come with it) when he's still carving out his place in the league?

 

Grigorenko should have been sent back to Quebec after five games. He clearly wasn't ready, but we kept him around because we needed a center. This means we rushed an 18 year old to the NHL because our GM forgot to give us enough players at one position.....and then we got cute and accidentally burned a year of his RFA.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

Huh? We're pretty fine on cap space right now.

 

Cap numbers for guys on these long contracts are going to be double the actual salary outlay pretty soon. If Myers is a dud, you already paid him. The cap number becomes higher than his production, and your only trade partners to dump someone become cellar dwellers who need to reach the cap but don't have cash to pay guys.

 

Point being, if you want to evaluate Darcy....he has EVERY tool in the shed available to him.....has used them.....most teams can't or don't want to.....and we still suck.....

[Trettioåtta]

"Hindsight" isn't a viable defense because all of the problems with those moves were apparent when they were made.

 

Stafford had a ton of red flags when he was RFA. And anyone could look at Leino's career numbers and realize we really overpaid to bring him in (to play a new position, by the way). The Myers signing happened too soon; why give someone that young a huge contract (and all the expectations that come with it) when he's still carving out his place in the league?

 

Grigorenko should have been sent back to Quebec after five games. He clearly wasn't ready, but we kept him around because we needed a center. This means we rushed an 18 year old to the NHL because our GM forgot to give us enough players at one position.....and then we got cute and accidentally burned a year of his RFA.

 

I disagree

 

Stafford had proved for 3 seasons he was a 50 point player - $4million for a 50 point player is good - it was a good signing

Grigo didn't look out of place in his first 5 games, so most people thought he was a good fit and would find his place on the roster

Leino was the second best forward available - FA jas sucked for about 5 years now, but we had the cap and monetary space, why not go for it? I say again, he had 6 points in 8 games this season, and he played well - who knows if it was just one bad season or not

Myers' contract was too soon, but lsat 15 games he has played well, i think a combination of the shortened season, coming in out of shape and large expectations cracked him for a bit

 

We have sucked for 1.5 seasons since Pegula took over, it really isn't as bad as people claiming it has been 3 years

 

Having said this, a combination of Leino existing, Myers playing well, Stafford playing like he should and I think we are easily in the playoff picture

[qwksndmonster]

Cap numbers for guys on these long contracts are going to be double the actual salary outlay pretty soon. If Myers is a dud, you already paid him. The cap number becomes higher than his production, and your only trade partners to dump someone become cellar dwellers who need to reach the cap but don't have cash to pay guys.

 

Point being, if you want to evaluate Darcy....he has EVERY tool in the shed available to him.....has used them.....most teams can't or don't want to.....and we still suck.....

I don't really understand what point you're trying to make about the frontloaded contracts mortgaging the future of the cap.

[Grumpy]

I disagree

 

Stafford had proved for 3 seasons he was a 50 point player - $4million for a 50 point player is good - it was a good signing

Grigo didn't look out of place in his first 5 games, so most people thought he was a good fit and would find his place on the roster

Leino was the second best forward available - FA jas sucked for about 5 years now, but we had the cap and monetary space, why not go for it? I say again, he had 6 points in 8 games this season, and he played well - who knows if it was just one bad season or not

Myers' contract was too soon, but lsat 15 games he has played well, i think a combination of the shortened season, coming in out of shape and large expectations cracked him for a bit

 

We have sucked for 1.5 seasons since Pegula took over, it really isn't as bad as people claiming it has been 3 years

 

Having said this, a combination of Leino existing, Myers playing well, Stafford playing like he should and I think we are easily in the playoff picture

 

 

People who live outside WNY, seem to be much more positive than the locals. Not saying who is wrong or right. But, there is an interesting research topic for the social and psychological grad students on the board. Absence seems to make the member much more tolerant of the fact that we suck and have been mismanaged for some time. Locals like myself seem much more critical. Out of towners complain about the arena crowd. Locals defend it in general. Interesting dichotomy for those into research.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

People who live outside WNY, seem to be much more positive than the locals. Not saying who is wrong or right. But, there is an interesting research topic for the social and psychological grad students on the board. Absence seems to make the member much more tolerant of the fact that we suck and have been mismanaged for some time. Locals like myself seem much more critical. Out of towners complain about the arena crowd. Locals defend it in general. Interesting dichotomy for those into research.

 

I won't speak for all out of towners, but for me ... you are way off base here .......... ;)

[Grumpy]

I won't speak for all out of towners, but for me ... you are way off base here .......... ;)

Was speaking in generalizations. I 've read your posts and apologize for lumping you in. It just seems that in "general" local/out of town taints opinions in general. I might be full of shite, and you wouldn't be the first to tell me that. Just watch location for awhile when reading opinions.

[Trettioåtta]

People who live outside WNY, seem to be much more positive than the locals. Not saying who is wrong or right. But, there is an interesting research topic for the social and psychological grad students on the board. Absence seems to make the member much more tolerant of the fact that we suck and have been mismanaged for some time. Locals like myself seem much more critical. Out of towners complain about the arena crowd. Locals defend it in general. Interesting dichotomy for those into research.

 

Yeah this does seem to be true. Another possibility could be I have only been a hockey/sabres fan for 7 years, so maybe my tolerance hasn't been beaten and worn away yet :P

[Grumpy]

I appreciate your objective reply. I've been beaten, pounded and am trying to rebound. LOL

[Eleven]

People who live outside WNY, seem to be much more positive than the locals. Not saying who is wrong or right. But, there is an interesting research topic for the social and psychological grad students on the board. Absence seems to make the member much more tolerant of the fact that we suck and have been mismanaged for some time. Locals like myself seem much more critical. Out of towners complain about the arena crowd. Locals defend it in general. Interesting dichotomy for those into research.

 

I think there's a simple reason for it: locals spend money going to games (more likely to complain) and are part of that crowd (less likely to be self-critical).

 

Even I haven't defended the crowd atmosphere for a little while now--it has changed drastically since spring 2011.

[Robviously]

I disagree

 

Stafford had proved for 3 seasons he was a 50 point player - $4million for a 50 point player is good - it was a good signing

Grigo didn't look out of place in his first 5 games, so most people thought he was a good fit and would find his place on the roster

Leino was the second best forward available - FA jas sucked for about 5 years now, but we had the cap and monetary space, why not go for it? I say again, he had 6 points in 8 games this season, and he played well - who knows if it was just one bad season or not

Myers' contract was too soon, but lsat 15 games he has played well, i think a combination of the shortened season, coming in out of shape and large expectations cracked him for a bit

 

We have sucked for 1.5 seasons since Pegula took over, it really isn't as bad as people claiming it has been 3 years

 

Having said this, a combination of Leino existing, Myers playing well, Stafford playing like he should and I think we are easily in the playoff picture

Stafford proved for three seasons that he was unreliable; some of us knew he wasn't going to score 31 goals in 62 games again. Why didn't the Sabres? Leino being the "best FA available" does not mean you break the bank for him. Everyone outside of Buffalo thought we were crazy to give him the money we did (again, to change positions) and a lot of the people in here thought we were crazy. Grigorenko definitely didn't look NHL-ready in his first five games, and the Sabres had no reason to give Myers the money he did as fast as they did. I think they just wanted to prove that they could spend money (similar to Leino) and it worked out horribly.

[Grumpy]

I think there's a simple reason for it: locals spend money going to games (more likely to complain) and are part of that crowd (less likely to be self-critical).

 

Even I haven't defended the crowd atmosphere for a little while now--it has changed drastically since spring 2011.

Yea, that is part of the dichotomy. But don't go simple or logical, government would spend real money (ours) for such research.

[Trettioåtta]

Stafford proved for three seasons that he was unreliable; some of us knew he wasn't going to score 31 goals in 62 games again. Why didn't the Sabres? Leino being the "best FA available" does not mean you break the bank for him. Everyone outside of Buffalo thought we were crazy to give him the money we did (again, to change positions) and a lot of the people in here thought we were crazy. Grigorenko definitely didn't look NHL-ready in his first five games, and the Sabres had no reason to give Myers the money he did as fast as they did. I think they just wanted to prove that they could spend money (similar to Leino) and it worked out horribly.

 

I don't think anyone thought Stafford would be a 30-40 goal scorer. But he had proven he was a 50 point scorer, which is what he got paid for

Richards is now the subject of buy out talk, so guess that FA was just ###### for everyone. But I would rather DR tried on that day, than did nothing and said he had faith in the current team

Agree to disagree about Grigo

Yes, they wanted to prove that this team was willing to commit both time and money to its stars - to prove to the hockey world we were no longer thrifty. Arguably it didn't work, but to me a contract is more than a year and I think both Leino and Myers will prove DR made the right call by the end of their contracts

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Was speaking in generalizations. I 've read your posts and apologize for lumping you in. It just seems that in "general" local/out of town taints opinions in general. I might be full of shite, and you wouldn't be the first to tell me that. Just watch location for awhile when reading opinions.

 

No problem.

 

In general I think you maybe onto something, so long as the distance is pretty great and if there are no real ties to the WNY area, in addition to the Sabre fandom. Many members who are now distant were at some point local. I grew up in Toronto and have family in the Buffalo area. Went to many a Sabre game in my day, So, I have pretty strong ties to the area still, even though I have been in Halifax for 15 years.

[JJFIVEOH]

 

Stafford proved for three seasons that he was unreliable; some of us knew he wasn't going to score 31 goals in 62 games again. Why didn't the Sabres? Leino being the "best FA available" does not mean you break the bank for him. Everyone outside of Buffalo thought we were crazy to give him the money we did (again, to change positions) and a lot of the people in here thought we were crazy. Grigorenko definitely didn't look NHL-ready in his first five games, and the Sabres had no reason to give Myers the money he did as fast as they did. I think they just wanted to prove that they could spend money (similar to Leino) and it worked out horribly.

 

I'm going to go out in a limb and say the Sabres were pretty sure Stafford couldn't keep that pace either. That type of pace is worth well over $4mil/yr.

 

With that said, I continued to read the rest of the thread and realized 38 already covered that.

 

 

 

I think there's a simple reason for it: locals spend money going to games (more likely to complain) and are part of that crowd (less likely to be self-critical).

 

Even I haven't defended the crowd atmosphere for a little while now--it has changed drastically since spring 2011.

 

I also think that out of towners may have first hand knowledge of their city's NHL team and realize that things in BFLO aren't as doom and gloom as Sabres fans lead on. It sometimes is apparent when they devalue the worth of certain players while overvaluing players from other teams who are equally as bad.

 

As far as spending $$, at least in my case, I spend quite a bit on the Sabres. I go to Sabres games when they come here, I subscribe to NHLGameCenter every year, I go buy dinner and drinks at the local pub to watch Sabres games when I don't feel like setting my computer up to stream the game on the big screen (AT&T doesn't offer Center Ice).

[TrueBlueGED]

I also think that out of towners may have first hand knowledge of their city's NHL team and realize that things in BFLO aren't as doom and gloom as Sabres fans lead on. It sometimes is apparent when they devalue the worth of certain players while overvaluing players from other teams who are equally as bad.

 

As far as spending $$, at least in my case, I spend quite a bit on the Sabres. I go to Sabres games when they come here, I subscribe to NHLGameCenter every year, I go buy dinner and drinks at the local pub to watch Sabres games when I don't feel like setting my computer up to stream the game on the big screen (AT&T doesn't offer Center Ice).

 

I think this part is definitely true, and makes a lot of sense, If you watch a player 82 times per year over the course of several years, you're going to know every single negative to that player--few if any of us have such knowledge of other players because we tend to only see them 5-10 times per year. Incidentally, this is one of the reasons I started really getting into the advanced stats--even for those who value the "eye test" over stats, good stats are still worth way more than a small sample eye test.

[Grumpy]

Just for sihts and giggles:

 

Drury. Little League home run, big goals like Pommer as a third line player in the playoffs in Colorado, although his were in a final.. They gave up on him, traded him to Calgary, then to Buffalo. Scored big goals for a final four team before moving on for big money to the Rangers where his career ended after he was overpaid.

 

Those are some positives and negatives about a very hyped Buffalo player who road the coat tails of stars to a cup in Colorado.

 

Just trying to stir it up.