LabattBlue Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Not at all--I think it's the best use of the overall roster as has been constructed in recent years. I'd much rather have Vanek on the wall than in front--but we have other guys who can do that, we don't have (or haven't--maybe Foligno changes it) other guys who can effective be in front. And please tell me you don't think Stafford is going to battle in front. Stafford and "battle" don't belong in the same sentence...ever. How do you know Stafford wouldn't be successful in front of the net if he is not given the chance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabres13 Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Here's a new topic Bobby Butler has been placed on waivers. He's a young RW, I don't know much about him other than hes looks like a solid third liner in stats. Should Buffalo try to pick him up? The waivers system is a little dodgy but I have to believe Buffalo would have a good chance to grab him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 How do you know Stafford wouldn't be successful in front of the net if he is not given the chance? The skill set is definitely there, I don't think the determination is. Stafford loses way too many battles on the boards and in the corners for a guy with his strength and skill....he's really shown me nothing to make me think he'll be willing to deal with the cross checks and slashes to be effective planted in front of the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 I have said this before. Vaneks skill set is not suited for the halfwall on the powerplay. He is not an explosive enough skater, his vision and passing wont back off PKers, and he isnt a reliable enough stickhandler. Ideally he is suited for infront of net, jumping into high slot, and sneaking off to the far side of net for onetimers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 I have said this before. Vaneks skill set is not suited for the halfwall on the powerplay. He is not an explosive enough skater, his vision and passing wont back off PKers, and he isnt a reliable enough stickhandler. Ideally he is suited for infront of net, jumping into high slot, and sneaking off to the far side of net for onetimers I can't entirely argue the other points...but I think you're seriously underrating Vanek's passing and vision. I actually think that's one of the most under-appreciated portions of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 I can't entirely argue the other points...but I think you're seriously underrating Vanek's passing and vision. I actually think that's one of the most under-appreciated portions of his game. I do think he is a good passer. But I dont think it is good enough nor feared enough to back off the PK. For all timmys flaws when he was on his game other teams didnt/couldnt pressure him on the halfwall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 In case you missed it, Semin just signed a one year, seven million dollar deal in Carolina. Good pickup for the Canes. No risk, about as high a reward you can ask for in a FA signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claude_Verret Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 In case you missed it, Semin just signed a one year, seven million dollar deal in Carolina. Good pickup for the Canes. No risk, about as high a reward you can ask for in a FA signing. Being discussed in the pinned Free Agency thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Thread update: Page 1: Sabres in for Ryan Page 2: Trade Sekera Page 3: Whinny little children Page 4: Poking at Semin Page 5: Flyers trading Couturier Page 6: Stafford is a third line winger Page 7: Enroth isn't unseating Miller Page 8: move Pominville Page 9: Vanek doesn't deliver The 'Ruff will never win a Cup' is trying to gain some traction, will that be page 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 The 'Ruff will never win a Cup' is trying to gain some traction, will that be page 10? Check the "Ruff's system" thread, we're at 8 pages now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 26, 2012 Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Check the "Ruff's system" thread, we're at 8 pages now. Just 8 pages? It's still in its infancy eh? :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Defecting Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 To touch on the big issues: Miller: team is nearly stacked, so keep him. Vanek: dude is good. is this thing on? Ennis: Gretzky Scott, McCormick, Tropp Shwing Shwang of Fear Anywho, Ott, who Kaleta? Leino Fits? Mean Captain Lindy, and Darcy the Gentle. Rich vein, Pegula! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 To touch on the big issues: Miller: team is nearly stacked, so keep him. Vanek: dude is good. is this thing on? Ennis: Gretzky Scott, McCormick, Tropp Shwing Shwang of Fear Anywho, Ott, who Kaleta? Leino Fits? Mean Captain Lindy, and Darcy the Gentle. Rich vein, Pegula! I don't know what your on................. but hook a brutha up lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Is there any doubt that if Vanek hits free-agency he would be looking at a $100 mil deal? A multiple times 40 goal scorer, career low in goals is 25. Unless he falls off over the next two seasons Vanek is looking at a monster payday. That said, who here is ready to sign Vanek to an extension when the time comes? And what is the price you are willing to pay to keep him? I'll ask the same about Pominville and & Miller. For those that want to keep this band together, what price do you think it would cost. keep it realistic considering what the free-agent market would bring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Is there any doubt that if Vanek hits free-agency he would be looking at a $100 mill deal? A multiple times 40 goal scorer, career low in goals in $25. Unless he falls off over the next two seasons Vanek is looking at a monster payday. That said, who here is ready to sign Vanek to an extension when the time comes? And what is the price you are willing to pay to keep him? I'll ask the same about Pominville and & Miller. For those that want to keep this band together, what price do you think it would cost. keep it realistic considering what the free-agent market would bring. I don't think Vanek nor Miller make as much in their next contract as they did their current. Certainly neither have done enough to warrant a raise. Not to mention they will probably make those monster deals illegal in the next CBA, or so I hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanny Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I don't think Vanek nor Miller make as much in their next contract as they did their current. Certainly neither have done enough to warrant a raise. Not to mention they will probably make those monster deals illegal in the next CBA, or so I hear. Things get crazy in unrestricted free agency and two years in the future I can only imagine it will be more crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Is there any doubt that if Vanek hits free-agency he would be looking at a $100 mill deal? A multiple times 40 goal scorer, career low in goals in $25. Unless he falls off over the next two seasons Vanek is looking at a monster payday. That said, who here is ready to sign Vanek to an extension when the time comes? And what is the price you are willing to pay to keep him? I'll ask the same about Pominville and & Miller. For those that want to keep this band together, what price do you think it would cost. keep it realistic considering what the free-agent market would bring. For starters some of it depends heavily on the terms of the new CBA. If teams want Vanek they (likely) won't be able to spread out the cap hit with 3 bogus years at the end, which could raise the hit over what it would be if he were a UFA this season. That said, I could easily see him getting close to the same salary he is currently at--I'd guess around $6.5 million per year. I'd imagine Pominville gets around $5.5 on his next deal as well, unless his production really falls off. Miller is the only one I could see getting significantly less, say around $4.5-5. With the organization as it currently stands, I'd like to see them all retained. With Vanek, we simply don't have any top-flight LW prospects in the system. After Foligno, I don't know if I see any of the guys even making the NHL, let alone becoming a top line player. The same can be said about Pominville with RWs--we have Armia and a whole bunch of blah, and that's with an already existing hole at RW on the roster. As for Miller, it really does depend on the next couple of years. I'm personally of the opinion he can be effective into his mid-30s because of his style of play, while I know others think he's simply too small (see: weight) to have a career much beyond his current contract. I think we'll have a better idea of him over the next few years--if there's a significant drop off or he continues to have injury problems, I think you have to look elsewhere at that point. This of course is all subject to change based on the roster. If we acquire a young winger or two who will be around for awhile, then letting Vanek or Pommer go makes more sense. But as of right now, I'm leaning towards keeping them all as long as the cap hits remain reasonable (even if the monetary value is the same, with a continually increasing cap the hits will be a lower percentage, and thus a more appropriate value). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I don't think Vanek nor Miller make as much in their next contract as they did their current. Certainly neither have done enough to warrant a raise. Not to mention they will probably make those monster deals illegal in the next CBA, or so I hear. Disregarding the next CBA (as we don't know what it will look like yet), I have two words in response. Alexander Semin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Disregarding the next CBA (as we don't know what it will look like yet), I have two words in response. Alexander Semin. Yeah, but Carolina only signed him to a one year deal. I wouldn't care if Buffalo signed him for $10 million on a one-year deal, because so long as it isn't hampering the team from making any more moves (which, let's be honest, there aren't many moves left to be made for any teams), it really has no adverse affect on the team -- you just overpaid a little bit to make sure you won the bidding war. If Semin scores 20 goals and 40 points next year, the Canes will cut their losses and let him walk, and he'll probably earn closer to $5 mil or lower in his next contract. It'd be different if they gave him $7 million a year over 3, 4, 5 years -- that simply wasn't happening. Vanek will likely be looking for more than a one-year deal. But after being given his current contract by Edmonton based on a 43-goal, 84-point season, he has failed to really come close to that production again. On the open market, sure, some team will overpay and sign him for around a $7 mil cap hit, but my hope is that he will realize how lucky he got with the Edmonton offer sheet and realize what a good thing Pegula has going here, and hopefully re-sign prior to July 1st for something closer to his actual value, which I would put between 5.5-6.5 million a year. Maybe I'm just dreaming by thinking a hockey player would take a home-town discount, but if ever there was a player who owed his team a home-town discount, it could be him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Yeah, but Carolina only signed him to a one year deal. I wouldn't care if Buffalo signed him for $10 million on a one-year deal, because so long as it isn't hampering the team from making any more moves (which, let's be honest, there aren't many moves left to be made for any teams), it really has no adverse affect on the team -- you just overpaid a little bit to make sure you won the bidding war. If Semin scores 20 goals and 40 points next year, the Canes will cut their losses and let him walk, and he'll probably earn closer to $5 mil or lower in his next contract. It'd be different if they gave him $7 million a year over 3, 4, 5 years -- that simply wasn't happening. Vanek will likely be looking for more than a one-year deal. But after being given his current contract by Edmonton based on a 43-goal, 84-point season, he has failed to really come close to that production again. On the open market, sure, some team will overpay and sign him for around a $7 mil cap hit, but my hope is that he will realize how lucky he got with the Edmonton offer sheet and realize what a good thing Pegula has going here, and hopefully re-sign prior to July 1st for something closer to his actual value, which I would put between 5.5-6.5 million a year. If you look at it as a percentage of the cap, Vanek signing for $7 million two years from now is a significant pay cut from his offer sheet contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 If you look at it as a percentage of the cap, Vanek signing for $7 million two years from now is a significant pay cut from his offer sheet contract. That's probably a good point, and one I hadn't considered. I guess it will depend on how close the Sabres are to contending by then. Maybe he would take a discount to stick with the team that drafted him so long as he feels like he has a chance to win a cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Yeah, but Carolina only signed him to a one year deal. I wouldn't care if Buffalo signed him for $10 million on a one-year deal, because so long as it isn't hampering the team from making any more moves (which, let's be honest, there aren't many moves left to be made for any teams), it really has no adverse affect on the team -- you just overpaid a little bit to make sure you won the bidding war. If Semin scores 20 goals and 40 points next year, the Canes will cut their losses and let him walk, and he'll probably earn closer to $5 mil or lower in his next contract. It'd be different if they gave him $7 million a year over 3, 4, 5 years -- that simply wasn't happening. Vanek will likely be looking for more than a one-year deal. But after being given his current contract by Edmonton based on a 43-goal, 84-point season, he has failed to really come close to that production again. On the open market, sure, some team will overpay and sign him for around a $7 mil cap hit, but my hope is that he will realize how lucky he got with the Edmonton offer sheet and realize what a good thing Pegula has going here, and hopefully re-sign prior to July 1st for something closer to his actual value, which I would put between 5.5-6.5 million a year. Maybe I'm just dreaming by thinking a hockey player would take a home-town discount, but if ever there was a player who owed his team a home-town discount, it could be him. I'm just pointing out that more than likely someone will give him a raise. If Semin can get one, Vanek surely will. As Clint Eastwood said in Unforgiven, deserve's got nuthin to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 I'm just pointing out that more than likely someone will give him a raise. If Semin can get one, Vanek surely will. As Clint Eastwood said in Unforgiven, deserve's got nuthin to do with it. Someone could give him a raise, but not if Pegula/Darcy extend him for a fair value before he reaches the open market. Edit: I guess I got lost in conversation a little bit, totally forgot that the post that started this whole discussion said "IF Vanek hits free agency." So I guess you can disregard my posts, lol, I was mostly talking about whether the Sabres specifically should give him a raise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted July 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 That HockeyyInsiderr dude just said the Sabres proposed the EXACT same deal that I've mentioned multiple times: Stafford, Sekera, Adam and a first. If the Sabres could get that deal, it'd be a great deal. (No, I don't believe this guy or anything, just think it's funny to talk about). However, I do think the guy has a few sources somewhere. Probably not many or many reliable ones, but something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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