TrueBlueGED Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 It always feels weird when we agree. Hell, I'll agree that Stafford is lazy. I just think he's a lazy top-6 forward, and every objective measure backs that up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hell, I'll agree that Stafford is lazy. I just think he's a lazy top-6 forward, and every objective measure backs that up. I'm fine with that; Menace said it too--now get this lazy top-6 potential forward the hell out of here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Actually it is you and PHD trying to equate Stafford's goal totals from last season to equate Stafford to a top six forward. things have been moving quickly, I can see how you would be easily confused. And it's been you who was gauging Ennis and Hodgson on their scoring. Not to mention the fact that you said you'd trade a rookie center if he finished with 0 points in 5 games with the playoffs on the line. Scoring......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 You must have missed his 30 assists. Oh and to use one of your favorite stats, he had 102 hits. Nash, your "physical game" forward, had 104. Bobby Ryan, another guy you praise for his physical play, had 113. I'm not even a Stafford fan, but seriously, saying he isn't close to a top-6 forward is just embarrassing yourself. And before you say "oh but he floats away from the puck!".....so does half the league, particularly offensively-oriented players. I am well aware of Stafford's hit totals. For a player his size his totals should be a lot higher, the 102 is his career high. Stafford doesn't play big or physical on a consistent basis. With Ryan, you can usually expect a more physical effort, Ryan's best season was 2010 when he went 34-37-71 with 156 hits. That's not just a coincidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 You should have looked further. 101 players scored 20 goals or more. 171 players scored 15 goals or more. Stafford is, by no means, anything near being a top 6 forward. Miller's career numbers are only better by .20% (.18 diiference 2.57 for Miller to 2.75 for Enroth) in .gaa and .002% in save percentage. Considering that Enroth often have many days off between starts, IMO, the numbers are pretty comparable. Of course theres only a difference of a few hundred games between them, not like that could affect their career stats If you want to forget games played and just compare numbers, Drew MacIntyre has a better GAA then both with a 2.31, and a save percentage slightly lower by .015-.013% TP could save even more money and just go with MacIntyre in net, stats are almost the same :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Ya know, this all started with some ridiculous statement that this is a throw-away year. Does anybody else besides DeLuca honestly believe that? Even if DR doesn't make any more moves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 :blink: That's awesome. I know during one game MSG had credited Callahan with 8 hits in half of the first period...that's not even possible unless he's the worst hockey player ever and literally doing nothing but chasing hits. I'd imagine some of it balances out over the course of a season, but it's just another reason to dislike the hits stat. I'm not sure if the League has properly defined what should be constitiuted as a hit, statistically speaking--- but even if they did it would still be difficult to accurately count them. Teams like the Jackets, Bruins and Rangers have had some laughably biased hit totals--- Carolina and Washington seem to over count hits for both teams, and obviously all other spectrums are covered, so it probably does balance out to some degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 And it's been you who was gauging Ennis and Hodgson on their scoring. Not to mention the fact that you said you'd trade a rookie center if he finished with 0 points in 5 games with the playoffs on the line. Scoring......... I would trade any player that failed to show up in crunch time. I doubt that I am alone in that. I don't believe I mentioned Ennis other than being a huge question mark. I'll have to go back and take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I would trade any player that failed to show up in crunch time. I doubt that I am alone in that. I don't believe I mentioned Ennis other than being a huge question mark. I'll have to go back and take a look. He was part of the discussion. May not have been you per se, if not I apologize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Ya know, this all started with some ridiculous statement that this is a throw-away year. Does anybody else besides DeLuca honestly believe that? Even if DR doesn't make any more moves? I'll say it again: This team, as currently constructed, isn't going very far. This is why people are calling me "Angry Eleven" all of the sudden. But think about it this way: if one of the eternal optimists around here thinks there's a problem, there might be a problem! Or, as I hope, I could be completely wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Ya know, this all started with some ridiculous statement that this is a throw-away year. Does anybody else besides DeLuca honestly believe that? Even if DR doesn't make any more moves? 1. This team as currently constructed should not go very far. I think this makes twice in one day. Once more and I believe it will start the Rapture. :devil: :angel: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Ryan? Stafford? Wow. This is a 'Whole mess of stuff', cool thread. More topic related. Stafford is no doubt lazy, but that doesn't mean he can't be effective. He had a good physical season this year and a good offensive season the year before. I still think he'll be a solid 50-60 point producer and 20-30 goal scorer despite the laziness though. Whether you guys can get past that is a different question. Personnally I'm happy with him as 2nd line RW at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I am well aware of Stafford's hit totals. For a player his size his totals should be a lot higher, the 102 is his career high. Stafford doesn't play big or physical on a consistent basis. With Ryan, you can usually expect a more physical effort, Ryan's best season was 2010 when he went 34-37-71 with 156 hits. That's not just a coincidence. Actually, I think that's the definition of coincidence. In 2010 he also played with Getzlaf 65% of the time and Perry 78% of the time, as opposed to 2011 where he played with Getzlaf 51% of the time and Perry 48% of the time. I think playing more minutes with Perry and Getzlaf had way more to do with his higher production than an extra 45 hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 He was part of the discussion. May not have been you per se, if not I apologize. I don't have a problem with Ennis, besides the size and ability to stay healthy. I see Stafford and Hodgson and I see the exact same player. I would rather they were playing for another team. Actually, I think that's the definition of coincidence. In 2010 he also played with Getzlaf 65% of the time and Perry 78% of the time, as opposed to 2011 where he played with Getzlaf 51% of the time and Perry 48% of the time. I think playing more minutes with Perry and Getzlaf had way more to do with his higher production than an extra 45 hits. I'm sure it breeds confidence. It's what the Sabres are basing there off-season moves to date on. Bringing in physical players to raise the rosters physical confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'll say it again: This team, as currently constructed, isn't going very far. This is why people are calling me "Angry Eleven" all of the sudden. But think about it this way: if one of the eternal optimists around here thinks there's a problem, there might be a problem! Or, as I hope, I could be completely wrong. Ok, since you and Deluca say this at least once every thread please break down what you would do, step by step, to make this roster a contender combined with the final lineup plus callups/extras and contingency plans. Just saying the same thing over and over again is meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'll say it again: This team, as currently constructed, isn't going very far. This is why people are calling me "Angry Eleven" all of the sudden. But think about it this way: if one of the eternal optimists around here thinks there's a problem, there might be a problem! Or, as I hope, I could be completely wrong. Would I predict the team to go very far? Nope. But if Ennis and Hodgson develop I think they're a better team than last season. Basically my take is the floor is last season ("heroic run to 8th" that falls short, the expectation is a 6-8 seed, with a ceiling higher if Ennis and Hodgson not only prove adequate, but excel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 It counted as a hit when Roy wet willy'd Vanek. Anything counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I don't have a problem with Ennis, besides the size and ability to stay healthy. I see Stafford and Hodgson and I see the exact same player. I would rather they were playing for another team. Ennis' size, ok I can understand that concern. ability to stay healthy? I believe or resident Liger already addressed this, but you're kidding right? The only time out of the line up was a severe ankle sprain after a freak run in with a goal post. it could've happened to anyone. You truly are picking things out of the air that help your argument any way possible, aren't you? And Stafford and Hodgson are NOWHERE near being the same!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I see Stafford and Hodgson and I see the exact same player. I would rather they were playing for another team. I'm sure it breeds confidence. It's what the Sabres are basing there off-season moves to date on. Bringing in physical players to raise the rosters physical confidence. So after 41 games in a Sabres uniform you're ready to proclaim Enroth a very good goaltender, and throw him the keys to the car. But after 20 games in a Sabres uniform, you're ready to proclaim Hodgson the same as Stafford, and throw him over the railing. Really? As to the physical play--I completely agree that physical play opens things up. And I wish Stafford would be more physical--only I don't mean hitting, I mean actually battling on the boards and winning. But there's no way in hell you're going to convince me a few extra hits are more important for Ryan's production than playing significantly more minutes with Getzlaf and Perry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Would I predict the team to go very far? Nope. But if Ennis and Hodgson develop I think they're a better team than last season. Basically my take is the floor is last season ("heroic run to 8th" that falls short, the expectation is a 6-8 seed, with a ceiling higher if Ennis and Hodgson not only prove adequate, but excel. So what are you assuming injury wise, we lose most of our important dmen, like last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Page 1: Sabres in for Ryan Page 2: Trade Sekera Page 3: Whinny little children Page 4: Poking at Semin Page 5: Flyers trading Couturier Page 6: Stafford is a third line winger Page 7: Enroth isn't unseating Miller Page 8: move Pominville Page 9: Vanek doesn't deliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gohansrage Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I don't have a problem with Ennis, besides the size and ability to stay healthy. I don't worry about Ennis's size because he is such a good skater and plays in space. I worry about Gerbe's size because he crashes the net. (Gerbe's a tank though. 5'5" 185lbs. Guy can probably squat a Mazda) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Ok, since you and Deluca say this at least once every thread please break down what you would do, step by step, to make this roster a contender combined with the final lineup plus callups/extras and contingency plans. Just saying the same thing over and over again is meaningless. Well, here's the rub: I'm not sure there's much they can do. I love the defense and certainly think they're set between the pipes. I don't think there's enough scoring on the team. I think they may have gone too far in the other direction (grit)--here is where DeLuca and I will diverge, by the way. If they can sell a D or 2 for a scorer, even a wing instead of center, I'll feel better, but I'm not sure they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I'll say it again: This team, as currently constructed, isn't going very far. This is why people are calling me "Angry Eleven" all of the sudden. But think about it this way: if one of the eternal optimists around here thinks there's a problem, there might be a problem! Or, as I hope, I could be completely wrong. Half of our future team has less than 2 years under their belt. I really have no clue how you can make that assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Page 1: Sabres in for Ryan Page 2: Trade Sekera Page 3: Whinny little children Page 4: Poking at Semin Page 5: Flyers trading Couturier Page 6: Stafford is a third line winger Page 7: Enroth isn't unseating Miller Awesome. Half of our future team has less than 2 years under their belt. I really have no clue how you can make that assessment. That's part of the reason for the assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.