TrueBlueGED Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Oh, and Stafford isn't a 3rd line player. For all of his flaws, he's solidly in the top-6 for just about any team in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 1. This team as currently constructed should not go very far. 2. We have gotten a good, extended look at Enroth. Twice. The second time, it wasn't pretty at all. 3. The notion-of-the-month on this board from, I don't know, was it March?, that Cup-winning teams are no longer built around great goaltending was completely exploded a couple of months later. 4. Still, if trading Miller lands one of the top ten centers in the league, they have to at least consider it. (But it doesn't.) 5. On EDIT because I forgot to address Stafford (who often forgets to go get the puck): Seriously, just get rid of this guy. If you think getting rid of Roy was addition by subtraction, how can you possibly stand looking at #21 float around out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Placing McNabb on the roster is a huge assumption on your part. 1 - While he threw a few big hits, his skating is still a huge question mark as is his inexeperience at the NHL level. 2 - Brennan can no longer go up and down without clearing waivers, has more professional experience than McNabb, and can fill the role of 5-6-7 defenseman. McNabb can go up and down without clearing waivers, and would be better served playing top 4 minutes in Rochester, improving his overall game instead of playing 5-6-7 minutes in Buffalo. Definitely agree that it's not a given for McNabb to make the roster, but although you make some solid points on Brennan, I don't see him beating out the Sabres current depth either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 BTW DeLuca, I meant to ask you................in today's NHL where only 30 players scored 30 goals (average of 1 per team), what team are you dreaming of where a 15-20 goal scorer is 3rd line? You should have looked further. 101 players scored 20 goals or more. 171 players scored 15 goals or more. Stafford is, by no means, anything near being a top 6 forward. I don't know how many more times I can possibly read "make cap room by trading/cutting/killing/burying X, then get a top center" before my head explodes. First of all, cap space is currently not an issue. Secondly, top centers don't get traded...and if they do, it's probably because they A) demanded it or B) are no longer a top center. It's a nice fantasy, but it remains, a fantasy. I can see acquiring a 3rd line guy, but we're not getting a top-2 center. Enroth has 41 games of NHL experience, and worse numbers than Miller. If Enroth is a "very good goalie" then Miller is an elite goalie, and thus, should not be traded. And for the last time, if Miller is just a vastly overpaid average goaltender...you're not getting a return for him. I think a team can win with young players up front. I think a team can win with a young goaltender. I think if a team has young players up front and a young goaltender, you're the Oilers/Islanders/Blue Jackets. Right now the Sabres have youth down the middle, and I think they're still a playoff team. If they trade Miller for cap space in hopes of the mythical top center trade, they're looking at the draft lottery. Miller's career numbers are only better by .20% in .gaa and .002% in save percentage. Considering that Enroth often have many days off between starts, IMO, the numbers are pretty comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 your an idiot. I really believe all you want is the sabres to finish last so that your agenda of ruff being fired happens While I agree with you about the tiresome agenda promotion, this is over the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 You should have looked further. 101 players scored 20 goals or more. 171 players scored 15 goals or more. Stafford is, by no means, anything near being a top 6 forward. Top 6 X 30 teams=180 players. #180 last year scored 14 goals.............. 20 and 31 goals is a bit more than 14. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Definitely agree that it's not a given for McNabb to make the roster, but although you make some solid points on Brennan, I don't see him beating out the Sabres current depth either. Top 6 without a trade or other acquisition... Ehrhoff Myers Regehr Sekera Sulzer Leopold Competition for the 7 spot(I doubt they carry 8)...Weber, Pardy, McNabb, and Brennan While I love what Weber brings to the table in physical play, he was bad more than he was good last year. It wouldn't take much of a training camp for Brennan to pass him if he doesn't get his act together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 You should have looked further. 101 players scored 20 goals or more. 171 players scored 15 goals or more. Stafford is, by no means, anything near being a top 6 forward. By what math? Each team has 4 top-6 wingers, and there's 30 teams. Meaning, there's 120 top-6 wingers. That means there's 19 top-6 wingers who scored less than 20 goals (actually far more, since those 101 players include centers). How, again, is Stafford not even close to a top-6 forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Where do all these ultra-consistent, 6'6" 250# speed skaters who can score 40 goals (1 exactly every 2 games) never get hurt or affected by daily life and cost next to nothing exist in your fantasy world? You know us crazy fans, we do crazy things like expect players to show up at crunch time. While I agree with you about the tiresome agenda promotion, this is over the line. and misspelled. :rolleyes: i can say that because my spelling is like Drew Stafford, it sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Did I forget the IMO? Best option? We don't know that because Enroth has never been given a chance. People are comfortable with Miller and are afraid of change. This team is just as likely to miss the playoffs with Miller in net. The Sabres with Miller had a chance to make the playoffs last season and Miller crapped himself going 1-3 with 15 goals against and a .877 save percentage over the last four games. Those numbers are fact, not IMO. Neither has Drew MacIntyre, he had a much better GAA and Save% then Miller and Enroth in his NHL games last season, Ruff should atleast give him 1/3 of the games next season so he can be given a chance. Do you know how a goalie gets a chance? By outplaying the other guy when he gets his chance, and being a backup goalie you don't get your chances regularly so its not easy. Last season Enroth played well, enough that many feel confident in him as a backup right now, but he outplay Miller consistently to deserve unseating him and getting the #1 job Again, as many have said, its not that people are afraid of change, its that right now, the best proven option right now is Miller, Enroth is still an unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Top 6 X 30 teams=180 players. #180 last year scored 14 goals.............. 20 and 31 goals is a bit more than 14. exactly. Stafford is a top six player by all means. Maybe not top 3, but definitely 2nd line. While I agree with you about the tiresome agenda promotion, this is over the line. Thank you... if you're going to insult someone...it's you're :P :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 You know us crazy fans, we do crazy things like expect players to show up at crunch time. and misspelled. :rolleyes: i can say that because my spelling is like Drew Stafford, it sucks. To finely compliment your hockey logic. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Rask dicked all over Thomas to get the starting job. If Enroth wants it he should do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 By what math? Each team has 4 top-6 wingers, and there's 30 teams. Meaning, there's 120 top-6 wingers. That means there's 19 top-6 wingers who scored less than 20 goals (actually far more, since those 101 players include centers). How, again, is Stafford not even close to a top-6 forward? Not every top six forward is a top six forward based on goal scoring. If so Henrik Sedin, Getrzlaf and Thornton couldn't be consider "top six" with their production last season. Since Stafford brings nothing else to rink, there is no reason to consider him "top six." Neither has Drew MacIntyre, he had a much better GAA and Save% then Miller and Enroth in his NHL games last season, Ruff should atleast give him 1/3 of the games next season so he can be given a chance. Do you know how a goalie gets a chance? By outplaying the other guy when he gets his chance, and being a backup goalie you don't get your chances regularly so its not easy. Last season Enroth played well, enough that many feel confident in him as a backup right now, but he outplay Miller consistently to deserve unseating him and getting the #1 job Again, as many have said, its not that people are afraid of change, its that right now, the best proven option right now is Miller, Enroth is still an unknown You know perfectly well that Miller's contract and perceived status has more to do with Enroth not getting a chance than his play does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 It is kind of funny that people (including me) are cautious about turning over the reins to Enroth but are ready for CoHo to be the best center on the team.... I think the difference here is your goaltender is a single point of failure. If your goalie has a crappy game, odds are you're not winning. If your #1 center does, there's a dozen+ guys that can make up that difference. Sure, those dozen guys can make up for a goalie letting 4-5 golas in, but that's less likely. Top 6 X 30 teams=180 players. #180 last year scored 14 goals.............. 20 and 31 goals is a bit more than 14. Beat me to it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Not every top six forward is a top six forward based on goal scoring. If so Henrik Sedin, Getrzlaf and Thornton couldn't be consider "top six" with their production last season. Since Stafford brings nothing else to rink, ther eis no reason to consider him "top six." You must have missed his 30 assists. Oh and to use one of your favorite stats, he had 102 hits. Nash, your "physical game" forward, had 104. Bobby Ryan, another guy you praise for his physical play, had 113. I'm not even a Stafford fan, but seriously, saying he isn't close to a top-6 forward is just embarrassing yourself. And before you say "oh but he floats away from the puck!".....so does half the league, particularly offensively-oriented players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trettioåtta Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Not every top six forward is a top six forward based on goal scoring. If so Henrik Sedin, Getrzlaf and Thornton couldn't be consider "top six" with their production last season. Since Stafford brings nothing else to rink, there is no reason to consider him "top six." You know perfectly well that Miller's contract and perceived status has more to do with Enroth not getting a chance than his play does. Points matter as well as goals. 67 assists is top line. Also he might bring more to the table, you aren't in the locker room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Not every top six forward is a top six forward based on goal scoring. If so Henrik Sedin, Getrzlaf and Thornton couldn't be consider "top six" with their production last season. Since Stafford brings nothing else to rink, there is no reason to consider him "top six." You know perfectly well that Miller's contract and perceived status has more to do with Enroth not getting a chance than his play does. Let's try and be a little more consistent shall we? You've spent the last page and a half using scoring as a gauge for all your players worthiness. Why change now? Oh that's right.............. because it's about Drew Stafford. Back to cherry picking again eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 More teams will be vying for Ryan than Nash due to there not being a restricted number of teams involved. Depends on the demand for Ryan vs Nash, the same teams probably will go for both, regardless of Nash's 'list'. At this point this arguement isn't even speculation. We know so little this is laughable. Infact all we do know is that Anahiem want a 2nd line centre and that we're not giving any centres up, that is ALL we know. EDIT: Ok, re-read this thread now. Wow, DeLuca's getting owned. Almost like watching a slow-mo car crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Not every top six forward is a top six forward based on goal scoring. If so Henrik Sedin, Getrzlaf and Thornton couldn't be consider "top six" with their production last season. Since Stafford brings nothing else to rink, there is no reason to consider him "top six." You know perfectly well that Miller's contract and perceived status has more to do with Enroth not getting a chance than his play does. Enroth's play has more to do with it than anything. Points matter as well as goals. 67 assists is top line. Also he might bring more to the table, you aren't in the locker room Do you watch the games? How many times do you seek him skate within three feet of a puck without reaching his stick for it? You don't need to be in the locker room to know a lazy POS when you see one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 You must have missed his 30 assists. Oh and to use one of your favorite stats, he had 102 hits. Nash, your "physical game" forward, had 104. Bobby Ryan, another guy you praise for his physical play, had 113. I'm not even a Stafford fan, but seriously, saying he isn't close to a top-6 forward is just embarrassing yourself. And before you say "oh but he floats away from the puck!".....so does half the league, particularly offensively-oriented players. It's been noted several times on this board, with hit stats being tabluated by each home building, they are wildly inconsistent from team to team. Columbus is notorious for over counting hits--- in a late season game against Detroit, the Blue Jackets were outhitting the Red Wings 33-2 at one point. It was almost certainly inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Enroth's play has more to do with it than anything. Do you watch the games? How many times do you seek him skate within three feet of a puck without reaching his stick for it? You don't need to be in the locker room to know a lazy POS when you see one... I like both of your points. Enroth isn't unseating Miller because at his best, he's the same as Miller, and other times...well...two words: five-hole. Enroth's play has A LOT to do with it Stafford is a lazy player. I don't really care for him much. my opinion on him can be summed up as "meh." But to say he isn't a top six forward is just crazy talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Let's try and be a little more consistent shall we? You've spent the last page and a half using scoring as a gauge for all your players worthiness. Why change now? Oh that's right.............. because it's about Drew Stafford. Back to cherry picking again eh? Actually it is you and PHD trying to equate Stafford's goal totals from last season to equate Stafford to a top six forward. things have been moving quickly, I can see how you would be easily confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 It's been noted several times on this board, with hit stats being tabluated by each home building, they are wildly inconsistent from team to team. Columbus is notorious for over counting hits--- in a late season game against Detroit, the Blue Jackets were outhitting the Red Wings 33-2 at one point. It was almost certainly inaccurate. :blink: That's awesome. I know during one game MSG had credited Callahan with 8 hits in half of the first period...that's not even possible unless he's the worst hockey player ever and literally doing nothing but chasing hits. I'd imagine some of it balances out over the course of a season, but it's just another reason to dislike the hits stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Enroth's play has more to do with it than anything. Do you watch the games? How many times do you seek him skate within three feet of a puck without reaching his stick for it? You don't need to be in the locker room to know a lazy POS when you see one... It always feels weird when we agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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