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Kassian to Vancouver for Hodgson

shrader

By shrader
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apuszczalowski First Liner

apuszczalowski

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Posted

Drury might still be playing?

 

Briere a #1 center with the roster we have had? Which "studs" with toughness were going to protect him? You do live in a dream world. Anyone who blames Quinn for DR's incompetence just doesn't follow the NHL IMO. Come on Man!

i was once like you, thinking it was Regiers fault, but I had been corrected many times here by others that Quinn and Golisano are the reason why.
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nfreeman Hall of Famer

nfreeman

Posted
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You're forgetting a letter, IMO: G. Need C and G. The rest works around those two positions.

 

Absolutely. Just wanted to focus on the question of which was more valuable between "elite C" and "bestial W".

 

Point of order here......

 

Recchi is a beatial winger? really?

 

Guerin was certainly not an elite beastial winger by the time Crosby won his cup

 

Kane wasn't tried at center until this past season, I don't recall Sharp playing alot of center until after the year they won the cup, and Hossa whilest a great player I would not call him a powerforward let alone a beastial winger

 

Marchand is a elite center? does he even play center?

 

Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuse me. On the C/W distinctions, I was going by their rosters from their cup years. (I seem to recall Kane and Marchand playing C during their Cup years, but I could be mistaken.) Anyway, as mentioned above, the point was to look at those teams' best centers and best nasty wingers to evaluate which was more important to those teams.

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apuszczalowski First Liner

apuszczalowski

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Absolutely. Just wanted to focus on the question of which was more valuable between "elite C" and "bestial W".

 

 

 

Well, excuuuuuuuuuuuse me. On the C/W distinctions, I was going by their rosters from their cup years. (I seem to recall Kane and Marchand playing C during their Cup years, but I could be mistaken.) Anyway, as mentioned above, the point was to look at those teams' best centers and best nasty wingers to evaluate which was more important to those teams.

Actually, its even easier to evaluate what was more important to their cup run, just look at the performance of their goaltender during the season and cup run and it should clear up if the C or Winger were more important...........
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nfreeman Hall of Famer

nfreeman

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An update on Kassian -- he's been dropped down to the Canucks' 3rd line, has 1 point (an assist) in his last 6 games and had 11 minutes of ice time last night.

 

I wish the kid well and do not post the above in the spirit of knocking him because he's no longer a Sabre. Just pointing out that after a hot start, he's cooled off and hasn't yet become another Cam Neely. Perhaps DR wasn't an idiot for swapping him for Hodgson -- who continues to play very well on the Sabres' top line.

 

The jury will be out for a while on this one.

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Taro T Hall of Famer

Taro T

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An update on Kassian -- he's been dropped down to the Canucks' 3rd line, has 1 point (an assist) in his last 6 games and had 11 minutes of ice time last night.

 

I wish the kid well and do not post the above in the spirit of knocking him because he's no longer a Sabre. Just pointing out that after a hot start, he's cooled off and hasn't yet become another Cam Neely. Perhaps DR wasn't an idiot for swapping him for Hodgson -- who continues to play very well on the Sabres' top line.

 

The jury will be out for a while on this one.

As it should be. When they both look back in 3 years, at where they are and what their needs were at the time, I expect they'll both think they made a good trade. As IIRC, 11 pointed out, they needed Hodgson (or someone similar) on the roster to make the Ott trade.

 

I expect the Sabres will be happy w/ Cody for Zach when all is said and done. When it gets looked at as Zach, MAG, and DR for Cody, Alkaseltzer, and SO; I'm not sure how I see them not happy with that personnel shuffle. And Kassian brings something to the mix that the Nucks needed as well; and as long as there's Sedin and Kessler ahead of him, well, we've seen what Cody brings in his own end at this point in his career and it is NOT prototypical 3rd line center material. Hodgson's too good to be sitting and not a good fit for the 3rd/4th line. Good trade all around at this point. I expect both'll still see it that way in '16.

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K-9 First Liner

K-9

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Then again I dont compare Kassian and Hodgson. I compare Kassian and Foligno. And I rather keep Foligno than Kassian.

 

That's the only sensible comparison that can be made. Why anyone would consider comparing centers in Buffalo's system with wingers in Vancouver's is beyond me. Foligno consisently demonstrated more of the "Koncept of Kassian" in both RaChaCha and Buffalo last year than Kassian did. End of story. Foligno made it a very easy trade to make.

 

As for the trade itself, we got a comparably talented player at a much greater position of need at the time. And although both teams will end up benefitting from the trade, Buffalo wins on that basis alone.

 

GO SABRES!!!

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waldo Third Liner

waldo

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Posted (edited)

An update on Kassian -- he's been dropped down to the Canucks' 3rd line, has 1 point (an assist) in his last 6 games and had 11 minutes of ice time last night.

 

I wish the kid well and do not post the above in the spirit of knocking him because he's no longer a Sabre. Just pointing out that after a hot start, he's cooled off and hasn't yet become another Cam Neely. Perhaps DR wasn't an idiot for swapping him for Hodgson -- who continues to play very well on the Sabres' top line.

 

The jury will be out for a while on this one.

 

And what would Cody look like on the Sabres third or fourth line?.. What would his numbers look like without a Vanek and Pom on his wings? On what other team would he be permitted to center a Vanek and Pom quality line? Answer...no other team. He will make more money here when he resigns because playing with Vanek and Pom will dramatically inflate his value, numbers wise. Assuming they can resign them both.( personally i hope Pom and Vanek are smart enough to leave this mess for greener pastures.)

Edited by waldo
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nfreeman Hall of Famer

nfreeman

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Posted

 

 

And what would Cody look like on the Sabres third or fourth line?.. What would his numbers look like without a Vanek and Pom on his wings? On what other team would he be permitted to center a Vanek and Pom quality line? Answer...no other team. He will make more money here when he resigns because playing with Vanek and Pom will dramatically inflate his value, numbers wise. Assuming they can resign them both.( personally i hope Pom and Vanek are smart enough to leave this mess for greener pastures.)

 

Jeez. Kinda grouchy today, eh?

 

Seriously, don't you think Hodgy has justified his spot on that line?

 

 

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deluca67 All Star

deluca67

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An update on Kassian -- he's been dropped down to the Canucks' 3rd line, has 1 point (an assist) in his last 6 games and had 11 minutes of ice time last night.

 

I wish the kid well and do not post the above in the spirit of knocking him because he's no longer a Sabre. Just pointing out that after a hot start, he's cooled off and hasn't yet become another Cam Neely. Perhaps DR wasn't an idiot for swapping him for Hodgson -- who continues to play very well on the Sabres' top line.

 

The jury will be out for a while on this one.

One thing that continues to get lost in this discussion is that Hodgson represents more of the same while Kassian represented a departure from the soft skilled forwards Regier is known for.

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BuffaloSoldier2010 Third Liner

BuffaloSoldier2010

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One thing that continues to get lost in this discussion is that Hodgson represents more of the same while Kassian represented a departure from the soft skilled forwards Regier is known for.

I don't really think Hodgson is "more of the same" he seems to be relatively strong on the puck. Kassian is certainly farther from that baseline than Cody but i wouldn't put Cody in the same category as i would say, Derek Roy or Tim Connoly.

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waldo Third Liner

waldo

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Jeez. Kinda grouchy today, eh?

 

Seriously, don't you think Hodgy has justified his spot on that line?

 

Honestly.. it is a toss up.. But i would say Ennis has the edge center wise (better vision, speed, scoring potential and hands).Cody is not playing with the same efficiency he once did early in the year..That line lives and dies on Vanek touches in the o zone. He is the guy that makes it happen. Cody seems to have lost sight of his mission in the last seven or so games. He seems to be taking more shots, losing the zone, holdiong the puck more and longer and playing with his head down (he shoots like a girl/ something to work on in the off season).. I may be wrong , but i think the chart stats would prove me correct. My guess is Vanek and Pom touches in scoring position are way down imo. (some of that is attributable to defensive schemes granted/ )

 

In summary the sabres have two second/third line centers . I do not see Cody being more than a two at best when he hits his stride.(it will be two or three more years) He is not a first line pp guy either (nor is Myers)..He is one of only two options the Sabres have for the 1 line.That is the Sabres fault. six years now of no one center..Can you imagine what Pom and Vaneks numbers would have looked like with a real playmaking center. Cody is not necessarily the best choice to center that line but he is one of the best two choices available..That defect is managements fault. That line will makes his numbers look better than playing on an average three line for some other team.

Edited by waldo
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Patty16 Third Liner

Patty16

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Honestly.. it is a toss up.. But i would say Ennis has the edge center wise (better vision, speed and hands)... I see Cody as a defensive liability and lately he is not playing with the same efficiency he once did early in the year..That line lives and dies on Vanek touches in the red zone. Cody seems to have lost sight of his mission in the last seven or so games. He seems to be taking more shots (and that is embarassing to watch) I may be wrong , but i think the chart stats would prove me correct. Vanek and pom touches in scoring position are way down. (some attributable to defensive schemes granted/ )

 

In summary the sabres have two second/third line centers with some potential. I do not see Cody being more than a two at best when he hits his stride.He is not a first line pp guy (nor is Myers)..He is one of only two options the Sabres have for the 1 line.That is their fault. six years of no center..Can you imagine what Pom and Vaneks numbers would have looked like with one. Cody is not necessarily the best choice but he is one of the best choices available..

 

He is currently centering one of the best lines in hockey. He's not a sure fire #1 but is also a far cry from 2 "at best"

 

How many on here can name the LA Kings "true #1 center" without google? You don't need wayne gretzky at center to win.

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dudacek Hall of Famer

dudacek

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Posted (edited)

Wow, a 23-year-old kid is among the league's top 30 scorers, and he will max out as a two at the most when he hits his stride.

I forget this is Sabrespace and there are only a half-dozen first-line centres in the league and maybe 10 or 15 number twos.

Edited by dudacek
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Ghost of Dwight Drane First Liner

Ghost of Dwight Drane

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Yes....Kassian scored more on the first line.....imagine if Hodgson centered Hecht and Gerbe? How many points would he have?

 

And I guess much like the chicken and the egg, would you rather have a guy who plays 3rd line on a division leader that has 67% more points 1/3 through the season over a 1st line player on a team in the dumpster?

 

We shall see......

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spndnchz All Star

spndnchz

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Posted

Yes....Kassian scored more on the first line.....imagine if Hodgson centered Hecht and Gerbe? How many points would he have?

 

And I guess much like the chicken and the egg, would you rather have a guy who plays 3rd line on a division leader that has 67% more points 1/3 through the season over a 1st line player on a team in the dumpster?

 

We shall see......

 

Thing is he wasn't on the third line when he got those points

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nfreeman Hall of Famer

nfreeman

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One thing that continues to get lost in this discussion is that Hodgson represents more of the same while Kassian represented a departure from the soft skilled forwards Regier is known for.

 

Yes, but the Kassian departure only matters if he's actually a good player, right? i.e. if his minutes continue to dwindle and he ends up as a marginal player, then turning him into Hodgy had to be the right call, yes?

 

I don't think anyone is saying that it's OK to trade Lucic for Pominville (see what I did there?). But as of right now, that's not what happened.

 

Honestly.. it is a toss up.. But i would say Ennis has the edge center wise (better vision, speed, scoring potential and hands).Cody is not playing with the same efficiency he once did early in the year..That line lives and dies on Vanek touches in the o zone. He is the guy that makes it happen. Cody seems to have lost sight of his mission in the last seven or so games. He seems to be taking more shots, losing the zone, holdiong the puck more and longer and playing with his head down (he shoots like a girl/ something to work on in the off season).. I may be wrong , but i think the chart stats would prove me correct. My guess is Vanek and Pom touches in scoring position are way down imo. (some of that is attributable to defensive schemes granted/ )

 

In summary the sabres have two second/third line centers . I do not see Cody being more than a two at best when he hits his stride.(it will be two or three more years) He is not a first line pp guy either (nor is Myers)..He is one of only two options the Sabres have for the 1 line.That is the Sabres fault. six years now of no one center..Can you imagine what Pom and Vaneks numbers would have looked like with a real playmaking center. Cody is not necessarily the best choice to center that line but he is one of the best two choices available..That defect is managements fault. That line will makes his numbers look better than playing on an average three line for some other team.

 

I agree with much of this -- I like Ennis quite a bit, I think Vanek is the straw stirring the drink on the top line, and I think that Ennis and Hodgy are both probably closer to good #2 centers than true #1 centers -- but I do think they are both good #2 centers. And as Dudacek points out, there aren't more than half a dozen or so true #1 centers in the NHL -- so 2 good #2 centers isn't a bad place to be.

 

He is currently centering one of the best lines in hockey. He's not a sure fire #1 but is also a far cry from 2 "at best"

 

How many on here can name the LA Kings "true #1 center" without google? You don't need wayne gretzky at center to win.

 

Just about everyone, I expect.

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K-9 First Liner

K-9

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It lives through Foligno.

 

So then Foligno represents that departure from the soft forwards you spoke of up thread? A skilled young player at a position of need PLUS more of a Kassian then even Kassian himself. Nice.

 

GO SABRES!!!

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