sabres1970 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 As with most of this team he is very inconsistent in his play. Talented but gives the puck away too many times. And that's the point: pro scouts are paid to examine that type of stuff. Just because Roy has teared it up of late, doesn't mean his value is any greater. I think it will be very difficult to move him by tomorrow. Admittedly for Darcy, I think it will be virtually impossible for him to pull off a trade that not only moves Roy but also keeps us competitive for the playoffs this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Put those two together with Leino and we'd have the 'Finnish Line.' ...but with Laimo (no sp error) on the line wouldn't 'no finish' be more apt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I could see getting a 1st for Roy, but the bolded part is nonsense "IMHO" Well even though you failed to justify that remark I went and ran the numbers: Carter: 0.391gpga 0.735ppga Roy: 0.297gpga 0.790ppga Now please explain in what major way Derek Roy is not as qualified or as valuable as Jeff Carter even though Roy is more consistent (which is scary to think) and Roy does not have a 10yr albatross of a contract following him everywhere either. If Carter, who is questionable as a center, is worth a good prospect and a 1st consistently, than Derek Roy is worth a good prospect and a first as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Jeff Carter has had consecutive seasons of 29, 46, 33, and 36 goals prior to this season where he's struggled with the CBJ. For a team like the LA Kings looking for a pure goal scorer that will not be asking him to center the top line (maybe not even top 6) he's a much more attractive commodity than Roy. Personally, I think Roy is viewed as a pretty valuable asset but some of Roy's strengths lie in intangibles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Well even though you failed to justify that remark I went and ran the numbers: Carter: 0.391gpga 0.735ppga Roy: 0.297gpga 0.790ppga Now please explain in what major way Derek Roy is not as qualified or as valuable as Jeff Carter even though Roy is more consistent (which is scary to think) and Roy does not have a 10yr albatross of a contract following him everywhere either. If Carter, who is questionable as a center, is worth a good prospect and a 1st consistently, than Derek Roy is worth a good prospect and a first as well. Jeff Carter has had consecutive seasons of 29, 46, 33, and 36 goals prior to this season where he's struggled with the CBJ. For a team like the LA Kings looking for a pure goal scorer that will not be asking him to center the top line (maybe not even top 6) he's a much more attractive commodity than Roy. Personally, I think Roy is viewed as a pretty valuable asset but some of Roy's strengths lie in intangibles. Beat me to it. It's not even close. LGR: don't you think there is a reason why 2 GMs have ponied up very attractive packages for Carter, and 3 GMs have been willing to take him on a huge, long-term contract, while no one has been willing to do the same for Roy? It's not a fantasy league. It's not all about the stats. Roy is an average player with some above-average skills and a well-below-average effect on his team. It's not a coincidence that his team is better without him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 It's not a fantasy league. It's not all about the stats. Roy is an average player with some above-average skills and a well-below-average effect on his team. It's not a coincidence that his team is better without him. I've tried to make that point with him before. It doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 LGR: don't you think there is a reason why 2 GMs have ponied up very attractive packages for Carter, and 3 GMs have been willing to take him on a huge, long-term contract, while no one has been willing to do the same for Roy? How do we know that no one has offered up an attractive package for Derek Roy yet? Regier overvalues his own players so maybe someone did offer a good trade but the Sabres didn't take it. I also don't think the Sabres have been motivated to trade Roy. Regier thinks of him as a member of his "core" and has basically never traded a core player. Also, if Carter is so good, why has he been traded twice in the last 12 months? That's a red flag for most players. I'm thinking Carter and Roy are a lot more comparable than you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Beat me to it. It's not even close. LGR: don't you think there is a reason why 2 GMs have ponied up very attractive packages for Carter, and 3 GMs have been willing to take him on a huge, long-term contract, while no one has been willing to do the same for Roy? It's not a fantasy league. It's not all about the stats. Roy is an average player with some above-average skills and a well-below-average effect on his team. It's not a coincidence that his team is better without him. I think you're severely overrating Carter or underrating Roy, not sure which. Carter's a better goal scorer, Roy's a better playmaker. Carter's talents were a better fit for LA, true, but that doesn't mean Roy won't fit anywhere else. Fact is we have no idea at all how aggressively Roy was shopped, nor do we have any idea how much was offered for him. Also trying to trade a small skill player coming off of the kind of injury Roy had with 1 game of playoff action since the injury is bound to significantly decrease value. Carter has almost identical bad habits as Roy, intangibles just as poor. And that contract does matter. Roy has been average this year, but I don't know how you can say he's just an average player. I've tried to make that point with him before. It doesn't work. It should work, and it is about more than numbers. But every complaint we have about Roy's intangibles/laziness can be laid at Carter's feet, and he just got moved for a top-4 defenseman and 1st round pick. They are comparable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Jeff Carter has had consecutive seasons of 29, 46, 33, and 36 goals prior to this season where he's struggled with the CBJ. For a team like the LA Kings looking for a pure goal scorer that will not be asking him to center the top line (maybe not even top 6) he's a much more attractive commodity than Roy. Personally, I think Roy is viewed as a pretty valuable asset but some of Roy's strengths lie in intangibles. Beat me to it. It's not even close. LGR: don't you think there is a reason why 2 GMs have ponied up very attractive packages for Carter, and 3 GMs have been willing to take him on a huge, long-term contract, while no one has been willing to do the same for Roy? It's not a fantasy league. It's not all about the stats. Roy is an average player with some above-average skills and a well-below-average effect on his team. It's not a coincidence that his team is better without him. I've tried to make that point with him before. It doesn't work. Notwithstanding the condescension that is rampant here, but if i don't use stats you tell me I am making things up and when i do use stats you say it isn't about stats... so basically its your right and I am wrong? because that sounds like nonsense to me. The reason Roy is still a sabre has nothing to do with other teams thinking he is not worth it and it has everything to do with Darcy overvaluing him. Roy is worth a 1st and Prospect. Carter has more goals, Roy has more points... ergo a team that is looking for a set up man and is either making the run or hoping to make the playoffs should be willing to part with that. My guess as to the reason Roy is still a sabre is Regier and last seasons shoulder injury. ps. I would rather have Roy than Carter on my team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Roy is an enigma. He is plenty talented. And puts up decent points when you consider his contract. But it seems unlikely that coincidence is in play with former linemates doing better when they move from Roy's line (Vanek and Stafford especially). He plays a maddeningly soft game, frequently glides into loose pucks that an opposing player is pursuing, loses pucks along the boards to avoid contact, and generally plays without intensity. Yet still has enough talent to put respectable points on the board. And has an affordable contract. Weighing the good against the bad, I'd let him go for a good ready-for-the-NHL center prospect or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Lavoie is a reporter for the French Canadian TSN. I wouldn't hate trading Roy to the Leafs--- in fact, I'm pretty sure I like it a lot. Renaud P Lavoie @renhockey Lots of interest for #sabres Derek Roy. Hearing #mapleleafs are interested in him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Lavoie is a reporter for the French Canadian TSN. I wouldn't hate trading Roy to the Leafs--- in fact, I'm pretty sure I like it a lot. Renaud P Lavoie @renhockey#sabres Derek Roy. Hearing #mapleleafs are interested in him. Do the Leafs have anything that would move our team forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Do the Leafs have anything that would move our team forward? Clarke MacArthur ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Do the Leafs have anything that would move our team forward? Listening to Burke, the Leafs sound unwilling to move any of their prospects just to "chase the 8th seed", so I'd guess draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Roy is an enigma. He is plenty talented. And puts up decent points when you consider his contract. But it seems unlikely that coincidence is in play with former linemates doing better when they move from Roy's line (Vanek and Stafford especially). He plays a maddeningly soft game, frequently glides into loose pucks that an opposing player is pursuing, loses pucks along the boards to avoid contact, and generally plays without intensity. Yet still has enough talent to put respectable points on the board. And has an affordable contract. Weighing the good against the bad, I'd let him go for a good ready-for-the-NHL center prospect or two. This is similar to how I feel about Roy. I think it comes down to how you weigh certain factors that add up to an overall rating. For me, his numbers are nice but they're only one part of the equation. His playing style, his attitude, and his consistency are all just as relevant, and in my opinion do more to count negatively against him than his stats alone can overcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Do the Leafs have anything that would move our team forward? Yes. Not having Derek Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ORSabre Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 He's a first line center on a team short at the position. If he goes, who replaces him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yes. Not having Derek Roy. Well, there is that. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 He's a first line center on a team short at the position. If he goes, who replaces him? The Sabres seem to think Luke Adam needs a bit more seasoning in Rochester but it might be just as good for him to get bigger minutes in Buffalo with Roy sent packing. I'd love to see him back with Vanek and Pominville. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 The Sabres seem to think Luke Adam needs a bit more seasoning in Rochester but it might be just as good for him to get bigger minutes in Buffalo with Roy sent packing. I'd love to see him back with Vanek and Pominville. :worthy:Vanek was raving about playing with Adam on his blog at the start of the season. We have nothing to lose by seeing if we can get that chemistry going again. He's a first line center on a team short at the position. If he goes, who replaces him? Ennis certainly looks like he has the potential to be the best center on this team, and that's even if we keep Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 He's a first line center on a team short at the position. If he goes, who replaces him? Right now I'm ok with Paul Sczhowdoyouspellurra finishing out the season on the Sabres roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Derek Roy...he's like a son to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm just not comfortable with having our top 2 centers having less than 100 games experience at that position. I think Roy needs to be a part of a package deal for a real #1 center. Not a prospect. Save the prospects for the 2nd and 3rd lines until they're ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 The Sabres seem to think Luke Adam needs a bit more seasoning in Rochester but it might be just as good for him to get bigger minutes in Buffalo with Roy sent packing. I'd love to see him back with Vanek and Pominville. And if the Sabres goal is to plan for the team's future, then moving Roy and giving Adam his shot is a good decision. If Adam knows he's a Sabre next year, he'll be able to train and prepare as a Sabre. That'll do wonders for his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 sending Roy packing and letting adam finish up the season on the top line would be a good thing for next year. Thou I think we would be better served having Adam in rochester or in buffalo on lines with the young wingers he most likely will be centering next season and letting Ennis take top line minutes for rest of season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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