darksabre Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm just not comfortable with having our top 2 centers having less than 100 games experience at that position. I think Roy needs to be a part of a package deal for a real #1 center. Not a prospect. Save the prospects for the 2nd and 3rd lines until they're ready. What team gives up their number 1 center for a number 2 center? I keep seeing this proposed and I don't understand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnkirishone Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 What team gives up their number 1 center for a number 2 center? I keep seeing this proposed and I don't understand it. Guessing that would be a draft day deal not a trade deadline one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 What team gives up their number 1 center for a number 2 center? I keep seeing this proposed and I don't understand it. That's where the "package" part comes into play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 That's where the "package" part comes into play. Does it though? What team packages their number 1 center, the kind of center we all want, for Derek Roy and *fill in the blank*. It just doesn't make sense. We might as well propose trades for Unicorns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Does it though? What team packages their number 1 center, the kind of center we all want, for Derek Roy and *fill in the blank*. It just doesn't make sense. We might as well propose trades for Unicorns. According to TSN, the only "number one center" available at the deadline this year is Derek Roy. So we aren't going to be able to trade Roy for a better center. Number one centers don't get traded very often. If you want a number one center on your team, you generally have to draft him. This is why many of us wouldn't mind the Sabres having a pretty high draft pick this summer, or at least a few extra picks to work with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyone Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 And if the Sabres goal is to plan for the team's future, then moving Roy and giving Adam his shot is a good decision. If Adam knows he's a Sabre next year, he'll be able to train and prepare as a Sabre. That'll do wonders for his game. I don't agree with this at all. Is that to say that Adam won't work as hard if he either doesn't know where he'll be playing at the beginning of next season, or thinks he'll be playing in Rochester? I'd think Adam would work harder if he knows he's gotta earn a spot on the Sabres roster, especially given his play in the second half of his stint up there this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Does it though? What team packages their number 1 center, the kind of center we all want, for Derek Roy and *fill in the blank*. It just doesn't make sense. We might as well propose trades for Unicorns. I haven't gone down the list and examined every single teams needs, expectations, future plans and depth. But perhaps a team that is lacking forwards and could use Stafford. Or a team that is lacking draft picks because they irresponsibly used them is past deals. Or a team that is willing to give up on the playoffs who already has a #2 center and could use Roy as a 1A and 1B center duo while they use a draft pick to get a center they can use in two years. But like was just mentioned, Roy IS the #1 center on the market, and centers being in high demand might bring something worthwhile to the team. If not it sounds like a deal to be made in the offseason. I'm just not comfortable with all of a sudden giving Ennis the #1 spot after a couple of good weeks and have him along with Adam as our 1 and 2 centers next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 According to TSN, the only "number one center" available at the deadline this year is Derek Roy. So we aren't going to be able to trade Roy for a better center. Number one centers don't get traded very often. If you want a number one center on your team, you generally have to draft him. This is why many of us wouldn't mind the Sabres having a pretty high draft pick this summer, or at least a few extra picks to work with. This is exactly how I see it. That's why I don't understand the notion of trading Roy and getting a better center back. It just won't happen. I don't agree with this at all. Is that to say that Adam won't work as hard if he either doesn't know where he'll be playing at the beginning of next season, or thinks he'll be playing in Rochester? I'd think Adam would work harder if he knows he's gotta earn a spot on the Sabres roster, especially given his play in the second half of his stint up there this season. As an AHLer though his offseason training isn't run by the Sabres. As a roster player he'll have better facilities and fitness experts to help him make his training even better. It's better for Adam to be a Sabre than an Amerk in the long run. Moving Roy will allow him to physically (as well as mentally) prepare for his permanent spot as a Sabre. It does matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROC Sabres Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 sending Roy packing and letting adam finish up the season on the top line would be a good thing for next year. Thou I think we would be better served having Adam in rochester or in buffalo on lines with the young wingers he most likely will be centering next season and letting Ennis take top line minutes for rest of season. Adam needs to stay down for the rest of the season, if not part or next. The kid has a lot of potential but needs to hone his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiftyone Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 This is exactly how I see it. That's why I don't understand the notion of trading Roy and getting a better center back. It just won't happen. As an AHLer though his offseason training isn't run by the Sabres. As a roster player he'll have better facilities and fitness experts to help him make his training even better. It's better for Adam to be a Sabre than an Amerk in the long run. Moving Roy will allow him to physically (as well as mentally) prepare for his permanent spot as a Sabre. It does matter. What about all the other players that come from the AHL to the NHL? They don't seem to be slowed by the inferior facilities and fitness experts. Adam started out this year playing very well, all after being considered an AHL player throughout last offseason, so that didn't seem to hurt him. Even so, however, if Adam really wants to be a Sabre next year, he shouldn't need one of their centers to be dealt for him to take that position. He needs to earn it, and I'm sure he would say the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 What about all the other players that come from the AHL to the NHL? They don't seem to be slowed by the inferior facilities and fitness experts. Adam started out this year playing very well, all after being considered an AHL player throughout last offseason, so that didn't seem to hurt him. Even so, however, if Adam really wants to be a Sabre next year, he shouldn't need one of their centers to be dealt for him to take that position. He needs to earn it, and I'm sure he would say the same thing. Not all players are the same. The thing you notice about Adam is that playing on a top line was exhausting for him. The NHL is a faster game, and being thrust into the number one center spot on a bad team is tough. It's not that he's suffering from inferior training, it's that adjusting to a very difficult role is not easy and it probably would have been better for him to spend a season on a lower line first. The point is that he will likely be a better NHL player next season than he is currently. He's shown us that he can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Does Adam have the potential to match Roy's numbers over the years? We are looking for a real #1 center right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Does Adam have the potential to match Roy's numbers over the years? We are looking for a real #1 center right? It depends on what you want from a number 1 center. We need someone who can feed Vanek and Poms and not get beat off the puck. A center who can put up good assist numbers, not always goals. Roy is not that center, but Adam might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 It depends on what you want from a number 1 center. We need someone who can feed Vanek and Poms and not get beat off the puck. A center who can put up good assist numbers, not always goals. Roy is not that center, but Adam might be. I'm just curious what the general concensus is on here. Because I hear some people say they want to ditch the core and invest in picks to find a #1 center. I also hear people say they want to go after a true #1 veteran center who is good enough to warrant a package deal including Roy. Either way, I don't think we're going to get what we want out of Adam. He may have the size to make up for Roy, but I don't think he has the potential to be a true #1 center that some people are looking for. So your #1 center would be a Lacavalier or a similar center with size? Don't get me wrong, I know Roy has his downsides which are glaring. I'd ship him out in a heartbeat if he can take someone or something (draft pick/prospect) with him to being in a top center. I just think if we ship Roy out and get nothing in return that can help immediately, we're going to be in for a world of hurt next year if our top 2 centers are Ennis and Adam. Not saying Ennis can't be great as a center, but I need to see him succeed in that spot before I'm convinced. If Ennis and Adam are our top two centers next year it's going to be even more difficult to win games than this year, especially if Ennis gets hurt. And I can see it now, the first time Ennis gets crushed annd is out for 3 months, everybody on this board wil be saying "See! I told you we should have gotten bigger instead of faster!" lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I'm just curious what the general concensus is on here. Because I hear some people say they want to ditch the core and invest in picks to find a #1 center. I also hear people say they want to go after a true #1 veteran center who is good enough to warrant a package deal including Roy. Either way, I don't think we're going to get what we want out of Adam. He may have the size to make up for Roy, but I don't think he has the potential to be a true #1 center that some people are looking for. So your #1 center would be a Lacavalier or a similar center with size? Our particular team needs 3 things right now. 1) Mix up the core so the magnificent 7 no longer exist. (Roy, Stafford, Pominville, Vanek, Gaustad, Miller, Hecht) At least 1 of the big 4 needs to leave. (Vanek, Pommers, Miller, Roy) 2) Acquire a center who is physical but very skilled to play with vanek and pommers so that they are increasingly regarded as 1 of the best lines in hockey. This center could range from a player like Jordan Staal to a player more like Brad Richards. 3) Acquire a winger who is physical enough and skilled enough to protect and skate with Tyler Ennis on the 2nd line. So by trading Roy you can accomplish 2 of the 3 which if I am not mistaken would be 1 + 3 but very unlikely to be 1+2. O and this is not fantasy hockey so sorry to tell certain ppl but Derek Roy does have a great deal of value to a team with cup aspirations. There is one player who I would like to see acquired... Brandon Dubinsky, of course that would mean shifting a winger back to center and I know how much we all hate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Does Adam have the potential to match Roy's numbers over the years? We are looking for a real #1 center right? 1. I think Ennis can be better than Roy, though we're very early with him as a center. 2. I think Adam works better with Vanek than Roy does. His size and ability to stay in front of the net is a challenge for defenders who have to decide whether to take on the guy in front of the net (leaving Vanek room to maneuver) or to chase Vanek (leaving a guy in front of their net). Vanek raved about playing with Adam on his blog and the early returns were outstanding. Unfortunately, Adam is young and still figuring it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 The long and short of this is that if you want to trade Roy, I don't think you can expect to receive an upgrade at center for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 The long and short of this is that if you want to trade Roy, I don't think you can expect to receive an upgrade at center for him. The long and short of this is if there was a way to trade Roy and upgrade at center, DR would never do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 The long and short of this is if there was a way to trade Roy and upgrade at center, DR would never do it. I'm not sure of that. I think Darcy would make that move. But I think he'd have a hard time doing anything less, which is the whole reason for this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Not for draft picks. Forget it, Burke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 What team gives up their number 1 center for a number 2 center? I keep seeing this proposed and I don't understand it. Well said. This is just a nonsensical fantasy. Our particular team needs 3 things right now. 1) Mix up the core so the magnificent 7 no longer exist. (Roy, Stafford, Pominville, Vanek, Gaustad, Miller, Hecht) At least 1 of the big 4 needs to leave. (Vanek, Pommers, Miller, Roy) 2) Acquire a center who is physical but very skilled to play with vanek and pommers so that they are increasingly regarded as 1 of the best lines in hockey. This center could range from a player like Jordan Staal to a player more like Brad Richards. 3) Acquire a winger who is physical enough and skilled enough to protect and skate with Tyler Ennis on the 2nd line. So by trading Roy you can accomplish 2 of the 3 which if I am not mistaken would be 1 + 3 but very unlikely to be 1+2. O and this is not fantasy hockey so sorry to tell certain ppl but Derek Roy does have a great deal of value to a team with cup aspirations. There is one player who I would like to see acquired... Brandon Dubinsky, of course that would mean shifting a winger back to center and I know how much we all hate that. If Roy is traded, do you think he will yield as much as Carter did in return? I like Dubinsky too, but the Rangers wouldn't take Roy or Stafford or any other mediocre/overpaid/underachieving Sabre for him. They aren't looking to trade him in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 The way Roy brings in a number one center is if the team he is going to has two number one centers and either can't afford or don't want to pay one of them or if they want whatever else is coming with Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I guess I'm in the minority who doesn't like Dubinsky. He's like a horrible lovechild of Roy and Stafford. He has a career year, signs a nice contract, and then produces 6 goals on the top team in the East? He can't even get off their 3rd line right now. No thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 The way Roy brings in a number one center is if the team he is going to has two number one centers and either can't afford or don't want to pay one of them or if they want whatever else is coming with Roy. What team out there has a surplus of number one centers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 What team out there has a surplus of number one centers? The Kings and Avalanche (particualrly if they acquire Steve Ott, whom they are rumored to be targeting) have 2-3 centers each I'd prefer on the Sabres. Whether or not they are truly considered number one centers is arguable, but they are nonetheless upgrades to Roy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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