Sterling Archer Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 C4 (cervical vertebra): The fourth cervical (neck) vertebra from the top. Injuries above the C-4 level may require a ventilator for the person to breathe properly. And will usually leave you paralyzed in some way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I think to expand on it, if the guy was taken off on a stretcher, then people go nuts crying for suspension. Is the hit not just as dirty with or without injury? Half an inch difference in landing and the guy shatters his c4 and never walks again. I'm not a fan of suspension in general except for extreme cases. I guess the game is watered down now so i don't know what to say. C4 (cervical vertebra): The fourth cervical (neck) vertebra from the top. Injuries above the C-4 level may require a ventilator for the person to breathe properly. Again...it gets us to the point.....Montador made just as dangerous a play last night. We see multiple per game. What do you do? Suspension because of injury is not the way to handle it. Either you review and suspend every instance of an illegal, dangerous hit.....loosen the instigator and bench clearing rules so the players can take care of this themselves....or get rid of contact. I am of firm belief that less regulation is better. Back in the day the mafia ruled the roost and you could go to sleep with your door unlocked at night. The lawyers took over and now you can't help a bystander, make a joke, or hug a kid without thinking twice about getting some douchebag coming after your $$. Hits like this wouldn't happen if Chara knew 20 guys could beat the pulp out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biodork Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Story from NHL.com (pretty much the same as on TSN, but with reaction from the Habs teammates): http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=555491 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Again...it gets us to the point.....Montador made just as dangerous a play last night. We see multiple per game. What do you do? Just a minor nitpick here. Yes, it was a bad hit, but Montador's is nowhere near as dangerous as the Chara collision. The boards give. That part of the glass does not. It's not exactly the best comparison, but one is like running headfirst into a sponge, the other is like running headfirst into a brick wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Just a minor nitpick here. Yes, it was a bad hit, but Montador's is nowhere near as dangerous as the Chara collision. The boards give. That part of the glass does not. It's not exactly the best comparison, but one is like running headfirst into a sponge, the other is like running headfirst into a brick wall. No....actually, the kid in Montreal hit an ACTUAL SPONGE! I think it is a joke you are saying getting crosschecked from behind into a dasherboard, headfirst while on ice is not dangerous. In fact, more people have been seriously injured that way than the few times something goofy near the benches happened. We've had guys take goalpegs up the backend as well. You want cheap play to get removed? Let the real players take care of it. You have a bunch of overpaid, twittering, metrosexuals playing the game now. If that is what they want...go and eliminate checking.....or don't penalize someone for coming to reasonable aid of another player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CallawaySabres Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 This should at least stop the booing of Chara in most arenas........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 a terrible, terrible incident. i saw the play once before reading through this thread in its entirety, and had been in the minority opinion of this community: an aggressive hockey play that just went terribly wrong based on the size of the guy and the location on the rink. but, reading through everyone's input here (especially x, taro, rayzer, and weave (thanks, all)) and seeing the montreal feed (thanks, rayzer) and the still-frame of chara's fully-extended arm driving the guy's face into the stanchion (thanks, heph), i find myself convinced that chara did something genuinely terrible here. in tort law (that's civil - not criminal law), there's a dusty old concept known as the "egg shell plaintiff" doctrine. that is, if you were to assault someone by punching them in the skull, and your victim had a skull made of egg shells and was seriously funked up as a result of the assault, you don't get out from under responsibility for the severity of the injury because you had no way of knowing that your victim's skull was made of egg shells. basically, you're to be held responsible for unforeseeable consequences of a tortious act (whether that act was negligent, reckless, or intentional). i'll say a prayer for pacioretty's recovery. But Chara knew exactly where he was on the ice, and the situation. i've come to agree with this completely. The proof of recklessness was in the use of his hand. The body/momentum would have been more than enough to make the check, but bringing his hand into it late is where it got dirty. this was the point that done it for me -- terrific insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabreInFla Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Broken neck and severe concussion. Just saw it in twitter, unsure how to link things from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 This hit looks like attempted manslaughter. Maybe Chara donated Pach a paraplegia, because he is just such a nice guy. I am sorry but in a case like this you have to make an example. Suspend this bastard for the rest of the saison including the playoffs. No it doesn't, the hit looks like a good hockey play. I don't think Chara should get any suspension for this. He got beat by a speed guy along the boards and had a split second to make a decision to figure out if he can hold off the guy or not, when he realized he couldn't, you have to make a penalty (interference or hook)... everyone will tell you that getting a 2min penalty is better then giving up a breakaway. However, in this case, Chara hits him in the wrong spot. Should Chara have more respect for other players not to put him in a really dangerous spot? Of course, but, remember, this is a split second he has to make up his mind. Someone earlier in this thread said suspend him because he intended to do it... you're only assuming. It could be a good assumption, but an assumption none the less. The hit was good, if the hit is made 4 feet earlier, this thread is never made. Despite me not thinking he should get any games, i could see NHL giving him 1 or 2 games because of the injury, but rest of season? Theres no way. Not for this. This is ice hockey and the potential of injury is and always will be there, there are other ice skating sports with less risk, like figure skating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 No....actually, the kid in Montreal hit an ACTUAL SPONGE! I think it is a joke you are saying getting crosschecked from behind into a dasherboard, headfirst while on ice is not dangerous. In fact, more people have been seriously injured that way than the few times something goofy near the benches happened. We've had guys take goalpegs up the backend as well. You want cheap play to get removed? Let the real players take care of it. You have a bunch of overpaid, twittering, metrosexuals playing the game now. If that is what they want...go and eliminate checking.....or don't penalize someone for coming to reasonable aid of another player. I don't think there were fewer cheap shots that hurt people badly back in the days of bench clearing brawls. I enjoyed the entertainment provided by revenge, but I don't believe it prevented much dirty play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 "Max Pacioretty has a severe concussion, as well as a fracture of the fourth cervical vertebrae, but it's not displaced," Martin said. I'm not a (medical) doctor, but I'm guessing the bolded part is good news as far as any possible paralysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvelo Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I'd make an example out of Chara and throw him out of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IKnowPhysics Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Broken neck and severe concussion. Just saw it in twitter, unsure how to link things from there. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=555491 Max Pacioretty suffered a severe concussion and a non-displaced fractured fourth cervical vertebrae in his neck...will be out indefinitely and that the organization's primary concern is his recovery... ...both his parents were at the Bell Centre to watch Tuesday night's game and are with him at the hospital. Speculation: That sounds pretty f'ing close to career ending, but because it's a non-displaced fracture, it should heal with some luck, and the concussion could pose the longer term complication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I'm not a (medical) doctor, but I'm guessing the bolded part is good news as far as any possible paralysis. i think that's right. the displacement, i believe, is what can compromise (cut, sever) the spinal cord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=555491 Speculation: That sounds pretty f'ing close to career ending, but because it's a non-displaced fracture, it should heal with some luck, and the concussion could pose the longer term complication. It'll heal, but he'll probably never be healthy enough to play NHL hockey again. So, basically, career-ending. With a little luck, he'll still manage to live a normal life away from the game though. Also, nice that his parents were at the game and got to see that happen to their son in person. This story just keeps getting better and better. <_< Minimum suspension should be the rest of this season. I have absolutely no faith in the NHL to handle this correctly, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I don't think there were fewer cheap shots that hurt people badly back in the days of bench clearing brawls. I enjoyed the entertainment provided by revenge, but I don't believe it prevented much dirty play. You know you will have to pay for your dirty play though. Who wants to blow 12% of their salary for leaving the bench now when you make millions? Who wants to lose 1.25% of their salary for an instigator when you make millions? What I see these days is ceap shots all around instead of clean punishing. Nobody mentioned the other day when Weber stuck out his knee. He got a tripping call...but he was going for the knee with the other guy at full speed. Weber should have gotten the crap kicked out of him...but nobody even cared. It's just a different society in general. I guess I'm a dinosaur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 No....actually, the kid in Montreal hit an ACTUAL SPONGE! I think it is a joke you are saying getting crosschecked from behind into a dasherboard, headfirst while on ice is not dangerous. In fact, more people have been seriously injured that way than the few times something goofy near the benches happened. We've had guys take goalpegs up the backend as well. I never said it wasn't dangerous. The main point here is that the boards absorb far more of the impact than that corner of the glass does. Anything not absorbed goes right back into the body. As for your point about play along the boards leading to more injuries, how many times have you actually seen someone go head first into the edge of the glass like that? I've never seen that before today. So the absolute numbers from the boards may be higher, but that corner of the glass has a 100% serious injury rate for me. Are you suggesting that since it's a one time thing, it shouldn't be punished? I guess that means the Happy Gilmore skate stabbing scenario shouldn't be punished either since it's rare. You want cheap play to get removed? Let the real players take care of it. You have a bunch of overpaid, twittering, metrosexuals playing the game now. If that is what they want...go and eliminate checking.....or don't penalize someone for coming to reasonable aid of another player. You might have a point if cheap play had already been eliminated. The self-policing idea has been out there forever and yet the cheap play still exists. That crap will always exist, but it is far more present today thanks mostly to the completely lazy way in which the already existing rules are not enforced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I never said it wasn't dangerous. The main point here is that the boards absorb far more of the impact than that corner of the glass does. Anything not absorbed goes right back into the body. As for your point about play along the boards leading to more injuries, how many times have you actually seen someone go head first into the edge of the glass like that? I've never seen that before today. So the absolute numbers from the boards may be higher, but that corner of the glass has a 100% serious injury rate for me. Are you suggesting that since it's a one time thing, it shouldn't be punished? I guess that means the Happy Gilmore skate stabbing scenario shouldn't be punished either since it's rare. You might have a point if cheap play had already been eliminated. The self-policing idea has been out there forever and yet the cheap play still exists. That crap will always exist, but it is far more present today thanks mostly to the completely lazy way in which the already existing rules are not enforced. Didn't Ennis just go into the same partition last night? A guy with 15 inches and 100lbs on another guy made a split second play and it turned out horrible. If it was Gerbe doing it to Pronger, Pronger wouldn't have moved. You can't suspend a guy for being awesome. This isn't Little Loop football where if you are bigger than the other kids your age, you can't play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresMojo Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 I dont know if anyone saw this...but who was he after or talking smack with at the stoppage? 5'-11" Scotty Gomez...nobody else.... I really hope Myers drops him during a game. But this should get more than what it probably will... He knew what he was doing...and the ref. to the other side of the rink with full glass....player probably still hurt or slightly concussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Didn't Ennis just go into the same partition last night? A guy with 15 inches and 100lbs on another guy made a split second play and it turned out horrible. If it was Gerbe doing it to Pronger, Pronger wouldn't have moved. You can't suspend a guy for being awesome. This isn't Little Loop football where if you are bigger than the other kids your age, you can't play. He didn't go head first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 He didn't go head first. He also slid along the top of the boards for a good 5-10 feet before hitting the partition. Not at all the same. Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 He also slid along the top of the boards for a good 5-10 feet before hitting the partition. Not at all the same. Not even close. Look at the film in real time. Chara was about to get beat and initiated contact about 25-30% down the boards. They were going at full speed and momentum carried them quickly to that spot in the partition. Chara's arm's are so long that by the time he follows through with his drive, boom...they are there. This play was a direct result of a physical mismatch and there is no way Chara went into it with intent to injure. The poor kid got really hurt. I think Chara actually does a good job not hurting other players. There is some respect out there. If he wanted to kill Gerbe, he could do it with a clean check I would think. In that .08 seconds that he has to determine if he has an angle on the guy...he goes for the hit. Again, there are multiple hits from behind in every game that have more ill intent with potential injury. Because the guy gets right up, it isn't a big deal. Heck, Uwe Krupp should have gotten suspended for the Clint Malarchuk incident. He was hooking afterall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 This play was a direct result of a physical mismatch and there is no way Chara went into it with intent to injure. "No way"??? Really? Not even with a photo of Chara using his hand to guide Pacioretty's head into the glass at impact? And spare us the crap about how fast it happened. Everything in an NHL hockey game happens fast and almost all of it is done intentionally. Chara was pissed at the guy due to an earlier incident, he knew where they were on the ice, and he knew he had the guy in the perfect position to send him flying into that partition. Was he trying to break his neck? No, but in the heat of the moment that was a risk he was willing to take, and did. Now Pacioretty has a broken neck, a severe concussion, and (probably) no NHL future. And all the macho BS in the world about how it's a tough game and things happen and players need to police themselves doesn't mean a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Crotch Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 Look at the film in real time. Chara was about to get beat and initiated contact about 25-30% down the boards. They were going at full speed and momentum carried them quickly to that spot in the partition. Chara's arm's are so long that by the time he follows through with his drive, boom...they are there. This play was a direct result of a physical mismatch and there is no way Chara went into it with intent to injure. The poor kid got really hurt. I think Chara actually does a good job not hurting other players. There is some respect out there. If he wanted to kill Gerbe, he could do it with a clean check I would think. In that .08 seconds that he has to determine if he has an angle on the guy...he goes for the hit. Again, there are multiple hits from behind in every game that have more ill intent with potential injury. Because the guy gets right up, it isn't a big deal. Heck, Uwe Krupp should have gotten suspended for the Clint Malarchuk incident. He was hooking afterall. Got it. You believe that ramming his head into the stanchion at full hockey speed during the act of committing an interference penalty was a perfectly valid hockey play. Noted. :) On another note, I really feel bad for Pacioretty. I like the physical play and fighting as much as anyone, but you never want to see someone seriously injured, especially a kid this young (22). Hopefully he can recover from this and play again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dumb_dumb88 Posted March 9, 2011 Report Share Posted March 9, 2011 After reviewing the game footage of the incident and reading the opinions on the matter here from both sides of the aisle on the issue it very well could be viewed both ways. The deciding factor for me was the still frame photo that a couple of individuals put up, when I view that photo in context with the actual video, I have come to the conclusion that yes, indeed, he should be suspended for the remainder of this season. I don't take that lightly given the circumstances such as the speed of the game, but it was plain for all to see the puck had long gone as Chara continued to ride him along the bench area. I am in agreeance with many on here that the NHL needs to enforce strict interference rules, because that was plainly interference, even if it had happened on the solid board side of the ice. The over whelming evidence to bring me to the conclusion for a remainder of the season suspension was Chara's hand pushing his head continuously in the direction of the corner stantion of the glass there. That was enough for me, that and the seriousness of the injury. A message needs to be sent out to the players, and, as unfortunate as it is for Chara, he should be that message. I hope the player can have a normal life once he heals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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