wingnut Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I wonder how many people have actually been taught about the hand over heart gesture (with hat in hand, at that!)? God knows, you can't teach such things in school any more. Actually, to be honest, I wasn't sure about the hand over heart etiquette and for some reason thought only women should do that. I've never done it. I learned it so young, I couldn't tell you if it was in school or just from everyone around me any time it was played. Many men wore hats, so they would be holding those over their shoulders, and you would see the ladies holding their hands over their hearts - maybe seeing that as a child, you would think it's just the women that did that. Not everyone does it. I know a lot of military out of uniform will simply stand at attention. I don't expect that out of civilians, but I do expect standing quietly with your hat removed at least. I honestly do not recall seeing people being disrespectful to the anthem when I was a kid. Not like it's rampant now, but I have noticed it from time to time. When I do, I am not too shy to bring it to the attention of everyone within earshot. :chris: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/36/301.html Even more reason for me not to do it. I still don't quite get the sybolism. I love my country. I have tremendous respect for military personnel. I don't understand why placing a body part over another signifies anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbossy Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 The hand over heart is to "pledge" allegiance. Not the anthem. Hats off for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted April 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Actually I'm surprised that the hand/cap over the heart is 50/50. Usually when I look around the arena during the anthem, my guess would be less than 10% of the people are doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Actually I'm surprised that the hand/cap over the heart is 50/50. Usually when I look around the arena during the anthem, my guess would be less than 10% of the people are doing it. You're supposed to face the flag. Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm with ink though. All of these conventions are pretty random and even silly. It's like the idea that wearing a hat indoors is rude. Who says? Peggy Post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TM8-PL16 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Even more reason for me not to do it. I still don't quite get the sybolism. I love my country. I have tremendous respect for military personnel. I don't understand why placing a body part over another signifies anything. What is your deal Ink? the fact that it is written somewhere telling you to do it is "even more reason not to"?? If you have so much respect for the military and what this country was founded on/for, why not cover your heart? it's not a hard thing to do. just a thought but because traditionally it's been a sign of respect and by not doing it some people take it as disrespect. You can do what you want, and that is also one of the great things about this country... you are free to choose but I choose to show the flag and military the most respect possible when I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 You're supposed to face the flag. Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm with ink though. All of these conventions are pretty random and even silly. It's like the idea that wearing a hat indoors is rude. Who says? Peggy Post? What's so wrong with honoring the flag? It reminds me of kids in school who wouldn't say the Pledge of Allegiance. Why not take a few seconds to honor your country. They might be "silly conventions" but what's so wrong with them? I didn't realize that it was required to hold ones hat over the left shoulder. I'll remember to do it from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMadCap Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Just like in Carolina they shout "red". I agree, very disrespectful. I go to lots of Canes games living here in the South. While it is definitely NOT meant to be respectful, I do find it to be one of the lamest things I've ever heard. That being said, I find it much more offensive for people to be shouting "go team" or some other nonsense during the Anthem. At the Canes games, this is predominantly other teams fans doing this... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 What's so wrong with honoring the flag? It reminds me of kids in school who wouldn't say the Pledge of Allegiance. Why not take a few seconds to honor your country. They might be "silly conventions" but what's so wrong with them? I didn't realize that it was required to hold ones hat over the left shoulder. I'll remember to do it from now on. Let's say arbitrary instead of silly. There are lots of ways to honor the flag and the country. It has little to do with where your hand goes and whether you're wearing a hat. By the way, why not the left hand over the heart, with the right hand holding the hat, which must be turned upside down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Let's say arbitrary instead of silly. There are lots of ways to honor the flag and the country. It has little to do with where your hand goes and whether you're wearing a hat. By the way, why not the left hand over the heart, with the right hand holding the hat, which must be turned upside down? You're just arguing semantics. The point is that it's a small gesture and there's no reason anyone shouldn't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 You're just arguing semantics. The point is that it's a small gesture and there's no reason anyone shouldn't do it. Dissent is patriotic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 What is your deal Ink? the fact that it is written somewhere telling you to do it is "even more reason not to"?? Yes. It's how I operate. If you have so much respect for the military and what this country was founded on/for, why not cover your heart? I just don't see the correlation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Dissent is patriotic. As well as dissing. In particular, yo-momma-so-fat jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiofan Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Let's say arbitrary instead of silly. There are lots of ways to honor the flag and the country. It has little to do with where your hand goes and whether you're wearing a hat. By the way, why not the left hand over the heart, with the right hand holding the hat, which must be turned upside down? Not to pick a fight PA, but what might some other ways of honoring your flag and country be, if not to show respect and allegiance with your fellow countrymen? Is that like saying "I don't need to go to church to pray, I can do it in my backyard". Are you really doing it, or just sayin'? Refuse to do it in public, but rest assured fellow countrymen, I do it in private. I am not overly religious or patriotic, although I do love my Country and my God. I believe when the hand is placed over the heart during the anthem it is because you should be standing facing the flag, and it is a pledge of allegiance to your flag, separate from the anthem. Hats come off as a sign of respect to your country and your service men and women. I own a business where we race cars four sometimes five days a week in season. We play the National Anthem before every elimination event. We all stand, and my father in law, who is kind of a CRANKSHAFT, will scan the stands and has been known to kick people out if they don't stand during the anthem. He'll grab the mic from the announcer and yell "HEY YOU IN THE PURPLE SHIRT IF YOU CAN'T STAND FOR THIS COUNTRY GET OUT OF HERE"! Maybe not a great way to treat a paying customer, but a lot of American Legion posts in Akron and the surrounding area have given him commendations for it. This is America. We can do whatever we want. But maybe shouldn't we take the time to show our gratitude and respect to the people and ideals and traditions that gave us that right? Small gesture in the scheme of life, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiofan Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Dissent is patriotic. I agree with you there! Excellent that we have that right, isn't it?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I've also heard that the hand-over-heart is uncommon in other cultures, except for the Romans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 You're just arguing semantics. The point is that it's a small gesture and there's no reason anyone shouldn't do it. I think what PA means is that there's no correlation between that particular gesture and honoring one's country. If we had all grown up standing on one foot during the pledge of allegiance, that would seem normal, too. I mean, we could all kneel with our hands together during the national anthem, and stand hatless with hands over our hearts when praying. Nothing wrong with either of those combinations per se; they're just not our customs (and kneeling with hands together to pray isn't everyone's custom, either). That said, I grew up removing my hat and placing my hand on my heart, and I still do it. What I want to know is why no one sings the anthem. Seems to me, that's the most important form of participation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I think what PA means is that there's no correlation between that particular gesture and honoring one's country. If we had all grown up standing on one foot during the pledge of allegiance, that would seem normal, too. I mean, we could all kneel with our hands together during the national anthem, and stand hatless with hands over our hearts when praying. Nothing wrong with either of those combinations per se; they're just not our customs (and kneeling with hands together to pray isn't everyone's custom, either). That said, I grew up removing my hat and placing my hand on my heart, and I still do it. What I want to know is why no one sings the anthem. Seems to me, that's the most important form of participation. Yep that's me a, b and c. even if I sing out of tune. To me the hand is the symbolism for honoring the pledge, the hat is the gesture of respect it shows to those who gave/give so much for that flag to still be waving and singing along because it makes me feel good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwcolour Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Dissent is patriotic. Depends on what you are dissenting on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 Yep that's me a, b and c. even if I sing out of tune. same here, the hat is off, the hand is over the heart, and i am belting out the anthems -- to my mind, no reason i should not honor the canadian vets and men/women now in service as well. on more than a few occasions, especially during games with a visiting canadian team (game 3 of the 1999 conference finals springs to mind), i had people sitting near me start to size up me and my brethren as fans of the visiting team -- only to have a confused look come over their faces as gave the same (well, to be honest, greater) respect to the u.s. anthem -- game 3 of the '99 ECF, we actually had a guy lean over before the face-off to clarify for whom we were rooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 I wonder how many people have actually been taught about the hand over heart gesture (with hat in hand, at that!)? You mean since 2007 when some idiot in Congress decided "We need a law!"? Not many I'd guess. Others of us know about the law but stand by the tradition of placing our hands over our hearts for the Pledge of Allegiance but not for an English drinking tune with Key's patriotic lyrics... God knows, you can't teach such things in school any more.If God knows, he should tell more people. It's required curriculum in Virginia. Actually, to be honest, I wasn't sure about the hand over heart etiquette and for some reason thought only women should do that. I've never done it.Do whatever you're most comfortable with. If other people have a problem, it's their problem, not yours. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 Now, THIS is bad national anthem etiquette: http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/20...ltering_anthem_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalOhio Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 When I served, it was standard at every movie theatre on every military installation to play the anthem before the movie. Everyone stood - silent - with their hands over their hearts or saluting if in uniform until it was over. It doesn't matter to me when it's played. I have a low opinion of people who can't seem to be able to take a moment out of their ever so f'ing important selves to show the proper respect for the symbol of freedom that they enjoy, and for those that gave their lives to defend it. The least you can do is remove your hat, shut up and stand still for a minute. GD RIGHT! Pisses me off when I see some punk with his hat on during the anthem. Little bastard has no clue what it all means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screamin'Weasel Posted May 30, 2009 Report Share Posted May 30, 2009 What's so wrong with honoring the flag? It reminds me of kids in school who wouldn't say the Pledge of Allegiance. Why not take a few seconds to honor your country. They might be "silly conventions" but what's so wrong with them? I didn't realize that it was required to hold ones hat over the left shoulder. I'll remember to do it from now on. The reason it goes over your left shoulder is because you are to hold it by the brim and this would cause your hand to still be over your heart. I have very strong feelings about the anthem. I usually get goose bumps and misty eyed during the anthem purely due to pride it what our flag and that song represent. My biggest complaint with anthem etiquette actually has to do with the singers, not the spectators. I hate when people try to make the song "thiers." The Star Spangled Banner has set lyrics and set music. I despise people changing it with wavering notes, drawn out or added syllables, etc. This is the one song I truly feel should not be "improved" by the singers. While everyone seemed to think Whitney Houston's version back in the 80's or 90's was so great, I hated it. Please...sing it as written and improve some other song you think you can do better than the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 When I served, it was standard at every movie theatre on every military installation to play the anthem before the movie. Everyone stood - silent - with their hands over their hearts or saluting if in uniform until it was over. It doesn't matter to me when it's played. I have a low opinion of people who can't seem to be able to take a moment out of their ever so f'ing important selves to show the proper respect for the symbol of freedom that they enjoy, and for those that gave their lives to defend it. The least you can do is remove your hat, shut up and stand still for a minute. I agree with you but there's a certain irony in the fact that part of that freedom is refusing to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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