Best Defenseman In The NHL?

[pi2000]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Thompson played about 160 games b4 his breakout season. 

Power is already at 250+ games. He's never in college or the NHL used his body. He's not skinny and he's plenty strong. You can't train away the issues Power has. 

At 28, Tage has only very recently begun to us his size and strength to his advantage.     He's driving the net, finishing checks, literally throwing dudes around the rink like they're ragdolls.

At 23 he was strictly a finesse player.

Power will figure it out.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Thompson played about 160 games b4 his breakout season. 

Power is already at 250+ games. He's never in college or the NHL used his body. He's not skinny and he's plenty strong. You can't train away the issues Power has. 

Not completely, you can't.  But, they could get him to be effective in his own end.  He will, at times, use his body to keep players from getting past him along the boards.  This is something he pretty much didn't do at all in prior years.  He isn't looking as lost in front of the net as he has in the past.

How much better he can get at these is the critical question?  

When he came into the league, he would only shoot if he got the puck in the slot; now he will actually shoot from the point when there is a screen.  He still looks to pass 1st, but he doesn't automatically pass.  Expect that is a function of him finally feeling "storng."  Expect the improvements in the D-zone are also because he's more comfortable that he won't bounce off the opponent should he decide to engage.  At his age, he'll still get stronger.  In theory, he'll be more comfortable using his body for positioning.

He's never going to be a hitter.  But, if he gets in people's way AND he continues to get better with his stick, he can be effective without adding that other tool, which isn't in his nature, into his tool box.

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

At 28, Tage has only very recently begun to us his size and strength to his advantage.     He's driving the net, finishing checks, literally throwing dudes around the rink like they're ragdolls.

At 23 he was strictly a finesse player.

Power will figure it out.

He IS figuring it out.  But whether he fully gets it remains to be seen.  And whether he does or doesn't will make his contract either be a slight overpay or a huge bargain.

And don't expect he'll ever ragdoll people.  That was beaten out of him at a very young age.

[pi2000]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Idk, let's say he develops another 15%, how good would that make him. 

You're right, he's always been a finesse player.. in the USHL and at Michigan.  

He has the size, but he doesn't have man strength yet... for most that comes in your mid-late 20s.

I believe he'll be a dominant physical player when he reaches his prime, combined with his offensive instincts the sky is the limit for him.   

[irregularly irregular]

2 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

You're right, he's always been a finesse player.. in the USHL and at Michigan.  

He has the size, but he doesn't have man strength yet... for most that comes in your mid-late 20s.

I believe he'll be a dominant physical player when he reaches his prime, combined with his offensive instincts the sky is the limit for him.   

The problem is, when will that be? And what is he doing now to play better and elevate this team? 3 or 4 years to go before we see him figure it out? That hurts. 

I put some of it on coaching, but most of it on Power. What do you think would happen if Torts was suddenly named head coach? Could Power survive that?

[PerreaultForever]

He's definitely the Sabres best D this year and last night (and some other games) he was their best player on the ice. 

[pi2000]

Just now, irregularly irregular said:

The problem is, when will that be? And what is he doing now to play better and elevate this team? 3 or 4 years to go before we see him figure it out? That hurts. 

I put some of it on coaching, but most of it on Power. What do you think would happen if Torts was suddenly named head coach? Could Power survive that?

It's not a problem, that's just the normal developmental path for NHL defenseman.   

The actual problem here is expectations.

First, he was drafted #1 overall so everyone expects him to be a difference maker at 20 years old.  Matty Beniers who went #2 overall has 3 goals this season.   Power was the unanimous #1... that said, maybe he goes 4 or 5 in a better draft year, that's just how it is some years.   Power was the right pick.

Second, he's big... therefore everyone expects him to be physical.   I, for one, believe he'll get there (with the right coaching).    But it takes time, Tage is finally figuring out at 28.    Part of that is physically developing, man strength, and part of it is confidence.    Power will get there, he's a hockey nerd, he knows the knocks on hom and he'll figure it out.

[Broken Ankles]

5 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

🤷‍♀️

 

 

If you told Mule was playing at this level, coupled with trading Kesselring and Timmons for Joki and Clifton and the goals against would be worse than last year through 23, I would be like….

 

Keep making me look foolish Glass. 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, Broken Ankles said:

If you told Mule was playing at this level, coupled with trading Kesselring and Timmons for Joki and Clifton and the goals against would be worse than last year through 23, I would be like….

 

Keep making me look foolish Glass. 

How many empty netters did they give up to this point last year?  They've given up 9 so far this year.  Almost an extra 0.4 GA/game to this point.

How many OTL's last year?  4 this year.  Not nearly bumping up the GAA like the ENs are, but still, they didn't lose many in OT the past few seasons.

[LGR4GM]

Remember when Tyler Myers became a dominant physical? 

Neither does anyone else. 

[#freejame]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Remember when Tyler Myers became a dominant physical? 

Neither does anyone else. 

Yeah but how much of that was due to his marfan? 
 

/s

[Brawndo]

7 hours ago, EM88 said:

Where those numbers come from, I would like to see them for the rest of the top 4, meaning Dahlin, Bryam, and Power.

 

[Brawndo]

For fun here is are the same four player cards over the past 3 seasons 

 

[Big Guava]

Another reminder that young defensemen sometimes take longer to develop than most people want to be patient with.

[shrader]

5 hours ago, Taro T said:

Are players that weren't invited to their camp even eligible?

So they even have an actual camp? I just assumed it was nothing more than a couple attention grabbing press releases. 

[#freejame]

17 minutes ago, shrader said:

So they even have an actual camp? I just assumed it was nothing more than a couple attention grabbing press releases. 

Camp was in August and I believe there were 50 some players invited 

Edited 18 hours ago by #freejame

[Rasmus_]

Happy to see Samuelsson, mainly over anything staying healthy.  In his rookie season the Sabres were a better more stable team on the ice.  So keep it up Muel.

[Broken Ankles]

5 hours ago, Taro T said:

How many empty netters did they give up to this point last year?  They've given up 9 so far this year.  Almost an extra 0.4 GA/game to this point.

How many OTL's last year?  4 this year.  Not nearly bumping up the GAA like the ENs are, but still, they didn't lose many in OT the past few seasons.

When you remove ENG  it’s 70 in 2025 vs 66 in 2024. Net 6 less than looking at team GA but still more.  And FWIW if you look at XGA, it’s 70/64.  And we know the PK is much improved, so more 5v5 goals in those numbers.   Obviously it’s a 5 man effort in those numbers but still surprising.
 

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20242025&thruseason=20242025&stype=2&sit=all&score=all&stdoi=g&rate=n&team=BUF&pos=S&loc=B&toi=0&gpfilt=gpdate&fd=2024-10-01&td=2024-11-29&tgp=410&lines=single&draftteam=ALL

[LTS]

20 hours ago, pi2000 said:

At 28, Tage has only very recently begun to us his size and strength to his advantage.     He's driving the net, finishing checks, literally throwing dudes around the rink like they're ragdolls.

At 23 he was strictly a finesse player.

Power will figure it out.

Tage Thompson has also seemingly stopped doing all of these things again. It was like he was motivated when he heard he was a bubble USA Olympic team option and decided to show he could actually care and play stronger.

I also believe the Sabres do not emphasize physical play and instead emphasize stick work. It's why they attempt to poke pucks free more than separate player from puck through checking. It's why they leave players open in front of the net because they believe by standing in front of the player they can intercept the pass or shot.

Some players are good at the puck poking, they all seem to fail at intercepting the pass before the player in front of the goaltender can have an impact.

Meh..

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, LTS said:

Tage Thompson has also seemingly stopped doing all of these things again. It was like he was motivated when he heard he was a bubble USA Olympic team option and decided to show he could actually care and play stronger.

I also believe the Sabres do not emphasize physical play and instead emphasize stick work. It's why they attempt to poke pucks free more than separate player from puck through checking. It's why they leave players open in front of the net because they believe by standing in front of the player they can intercept the pass or shot.

Some players are good at the puck poking, they all seem to fail at intercepting the pass before the player in front of the goaltender can have an impact.

Meh..

Ironically, the same reasons that the PK is working well - guys that are outnumbered getting into passing lanes and using active sticks to intercept or at least deflect passes rather than manning up on someone and trying to take the body are likely the same reasons that overall they seem to be giving up more goals 5v5 to date. 

When you're outmanned, taking the body on someone gives the other team an even more substantial edge.  5v4 becomes 4v3 or 3v2 when guys play an individual man.  Getting in the passing lanes, especially when you have really big bodies (most of the PKers) or reeally high hockey IQ guys (like Benson), tends to limit scoring chances when you're down a man or 2.  Throw in better goaltending than you've gotten in the past, and the PK ends up fairly effective.

But at 5v5, taking space away from a guy or actually manhandling him will be more disruptive than simply trying to take away a passing lane.

Still would prefer Wilford gone, but if they could limit his duties to ONLY running the PK, might not hate him sticking around.  And, that he doesn't seem to understand, or at minimum he can't convince his troops (aka coaching them), that different situations require different tactics to be successful is a fairly damning reason to get rid of him.

And personally expect having Wilford as a coach limits how much physical play Power will add to his game.  He plays the way Wilford seems to want him to play.  Tough to learn to add other tools to your toolbox when those aren't taught/emphasized.

[Brawndo]

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Passes the eye test.

There are times that Byram and Timmons play well together, and it's even a significant portion of the time they're out there; but when they go bad they're Messy-Balls bad and unfortunately those times are significant portions of time too.

For the most part, am ok (not good, but ok) with those 2 together when they're at home and they can more or less control which lines they're deployed against.  But really don't like them on the road.

Still would rather they had a more defensive defenseman up as an option, especially on the road, so they could break up Timmins and Byram, keep from putting Byram and Power together (who are even worse overall than Byram-Timmins via the eye test) and still give Byram somebody defensively responsible to help him out when they can't control matchups.

[Thorny]

lol 

chalk it up with “Samuelsson is the team MVP!” circa 3 years ago. People love falling for a small sample size 

have at it, be my guest. 

Edited 40 minutes ago by Thorny