Bo Byram ultimate final prediction

[Rasmus_]

20 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Kadri is the type of player the Sabres need.  Tough and can score.  He would look good with Tage.

If there was a sweetener with Kadri due to age and such Id be all about this.  Kadri put up quality numbers with an underperforming team starting a retool.

[Porous Five Hole]

6 hours ago, Rasmus_ said:

If there was a sweetener with Kadri due to age and such Id be all about this.  Kadri put up quality numbers with an underperforming team starting a retool.

 Better be the sweetest sweetener in world history.  Kadri will be 35 this season and is signed for three more years (and will have to waive his no trade clause—unlikely). I love the concept of Kadri, but not for three more years at 7MM to pay him until 38. 

[Rasmus_]

6 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

 Better be the sweetest sweetener in world history.  Kadri will be 35 this season and is signed for three more years (and will have to waive his no trade clause—unlikely). I love the concept of Kadri, but not for three more years at 7MM to pay him until 38. 

Im at the point that I'm looking at production and the ability for someone to help us make the playoffs.   I'm fine trading Byram for futures and then flipping said futures for on ice improvements.

[Porous Five Hole]

17 minutes ago, Rasmus_ said:

Im at the point that I'm looking at production and the ability for someone to help us make the playoffs.   I'm fine trading Byram for futures and then flipping said futures for on ice improvements.

Only thing is are you jealous of any other team who flipped futures for immediate on ice improvement? I don’t see that this type of trade is available.  Not absolving GMKA in any way, but I’m not sure that type of trade is correctly available. Maybe a washed Tarasanko?

[Night Train]

I Google news on the Sabres and all these zero rumors pop up daily. Trading him for draft picks. Still talking about the offer sheet after the move to basically block it. So much junk.

 Just have to wait but who really knows what Byram is asking and what is being offered in a player or players. Throw in some other guys I won't miss like Muel and many more. 

[dudacek]

I will be surprised if he’s traded.

I think the Sabres have chosen this path because they’ve seen the offers and they are legitimately not interested in them. If teams weren’t willing to up their offers before, this process isn’t likely to change their minds.

I just hope Buffalo is legitimately keeping him because he’s their best chance to win, and they still intend to pull the trigger on another forward.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I will be surprised if he’s traded.

I think the Sabres have chosen this path because they’ve seen the offers and they are legitimately not interested in them. If teams weren’t willing to up their offers before, this process isn’t likely to change their minds.

I just hope Buffalo is legitimately keeping him because he’s their best chance to win, and they still intend to pull the trigger on another forward.

We're all hoping for that.  Hope ain't a plan.

[Broken Ankles]

  

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

I will be surprised if he’s traded.

I think the Sabres have chosen this path because they’ve seen the offers and they are legitimately not interested in them. If teams weren’t willing to up their offers before, this process isn’t likely to change their minds.

I just hope Buffalo is legitimately keeping him because he’s their best chance to win, and they still intend to pull the trigger on another forward.

  Based on what we have seen from Adams and Pegula, I'd be surprised if he isn’t traded, and furthermore traded for assets that net less AAV in  than expected AAV going out. All of his recent moves (as you astutely documented in another thread) outline a plan to add 'perceived' value while lowering the salary or long term commitment.   I'll add one that qualifies not in your list.  Jeff Skinner's $4.4M in buyout cap charges saves Pegula $2M this year, as his obligation to Jeff is $2.4.  Pegula was on the hook for $10M in 2024, and $7M in 2025 before the  Skinner buyout - and after he pays out the $2.4m Jeff is owed this year, it's a $12M savings in real dollars over two seasons. If Byram trade happens and it's for futures then I'm convinced that Terry is shopping the team.  There are only a few bad contracts, and maybe only Samuelsson is an albatross.  Can a $4.4M AAV qualify as an albatross-like contract? The GM, coaches, AGM all on their last year of a contract. It's what you would want if you are selling a team. Especially to a private equity group.  Mergers and acquisition flexibility - if you have an "asset-lite" structure, it would allow for an easier integration and repositioning strategy.  

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Broken Ankles said:

  

  Based on what we have seen from Adams and Pegula, I'd be surprised if he isn’t traded, and furthermore traded for assets that net less AAV in  than expected AAV going out. All of his recent moves (as you astutely documented in another thread) outline a plan to add 'perceived' value while lowering the salary or long term commitment.   I'll add one that qualifies not in your list.  Jeff Skinner's $4.4M in buyout cap charges saves Pegula $2M this year, as his obligation to Jeff is $2.4.  Pegula was on the hook for $10M in 2024, and $7M in 2025 before the  Skinner buyout - and after he pays out the $2.4m Jeff is owed this year, it's a $12M savings in real dollars over two seasons. If Byram trade happens and it's for futures then I'm convinced that Terry is shopping the team.  There are only a few bad contracts, and maybe only Samuelsson is an albatross.  Can a $4.4M AAV qualify as an albatross-like contract? The GM, coaches, AGM all on their last year of a contract. It's what you would want if you are selling a team. Especially to a private equity group.  Mergers and acquisition flexibility - if you have an "asset-lite" structure, it would allow for an easier integration and repositioning strategy.  

If this is what’s going on, why the charade of arbitration?

Why not just take one of the futures assets deals already offered?

Also, why trade Cozens for an even bigger contract just a few months ago? The Norris deal pays near $2.5M more in actual salary this year and will cost Terry about $7M more in real money over the duration.

Edited yesterday at 05:32 AM by dudacek

[Thorny]

40 minutes ago, dudacek said:

If this is what’s going on, why the charade of arbitration?

Why not just take one of the futures assets deals already offered?

Also, why trade Cozens for an even bigger contract just a few months ago? The Norris deal pays near $2.5M more in actual salary this year and will cost Terry about $7M more in real money over the duration.

The charade is the point: they deal in plausible deniability. PhD’s in it. 

When is the hearing anyway? I hear they run till august 4. Surely we can’t improve the roster until this is sorted out. I’m sure Adams WANTS to spend to the cap but in his defence I’m just not sure there’ll be much time left before camp opens, once the Bowen Byram situation is cleared up. Given the circumstances, he did ok. 

it’s all a sham 

Edited yesterday at 06:06 AM by Thorny

[bunomatic]

2 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

  

  Based on what we have seen from Adams and Pegula, I'd be surprised if he isn’t traded, and furthermore traded for assets that net less AAV in  than expected AAV going out. All of his recent moves (as you astutely documented in another thread) outline a plan to add 'perceived' value while lowering the salary or long term commitment.   I'll add one that qualifies not in your list.  Jeff Skinner's $4.4M in buyout cap charges saves Pegula $2M this year, as his obligation to Jeff is $2.4.  Pegula was on the hook for $10M in 2024, and $7M in 2025 before the  Skinner buyout - and after he pays out the $2.4m Jeff is owed this year, it's a $12M savings in real dollars over two seasons. If Byram trade happens and it's for futures then I'm convinced that Terry is shopping the team.  There are only a few bad contracts, and maybe only Samuelsson is an albatross.  Can a $4.4M AAV qualify as an albatross-like contract? The GM, coaches, AGM all on their last year of a contract. It's what you would want if you are selling a team. Especially to a private equity group.  Mergers and acquisition flexibility - if you have an "asset-lite" structure, it would allow for an easier integration and repositioning strategy.  

We can dream. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

  

  Based on what we have seen from Adams and Pegula, I'd be surprised if he isn’t traded, and furthermore traded for assets that net less AAV in  than expected AAV going out. All of his recent moves (as you astutely documented in another thread) outline a plan to add 'perceived' value while lowering the salary or long term commitment.   I'll add one that qualifies not in your list.  Jeff Skinner's $4.4M in buyout cap charges saves Pegula $2M this year, as his obligation to Jeff is $2.4.  Pegula was on the hook for $10M in 2024, and $7M in 2025 before the  Skinner buyout - and after he pays out the $2.4m Jeff is owed this year, it's a $12M savings in real dollars over two seasons. If Byram trade happens and it's for futures then I'm convinced that Terry is shopping the team.  There are only a few bad contracts, and maybe only Samuelsson is an albatross.  Can a $4.4M AAV qualify as an albatross-like contract? The GM, coaches, AGM all on their last year of a contract. It's what you would want if you are selling a team. Especially to a private equity group.  Mergers and acquisition flexibility - if you have an "asset-lite" structure, it would allow for an easier integration and repositioning strategy.  

We can still sign Skinner for that open forward spot. He's still available. 

[Turbo44]

15 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

We can still sign Skinner for that open forward spot. He's still available. 

Oloffson too………pass

[Broken Ankles]

15 hours ago, dudacek said:

If this is what’s going on, why the charade of arbitration?

Why not just take one of the futures assets deals already offered?

Also, why trade Cozens for an even bigger contract just a few months ago? The Norris deal pays near $2.5M more in actual salary this year and will cost Terry about $7M more in real money over the duration.

 Thorny responded adequately for the charade question.  On surface it looks more probable than not Adams does not have what he views is a fair offer and holds onto the asset. And in that scenario I think you are banking on Bo’s motivation for a long term contact to exceed expectations and elevate the Defense.  

  The Norris contract does contradict my argument.  My only response is that realizing the $12m net savings from Jeffs buyout allowed Pegula to justify the additional $2.5m in 2025. Especially if Adams and the staff think Norris could improve the team over Cozens. They are still marching towards improvement. Weather or not it’s manifested is another story. If the plan  fails again this year, Pegula can then pull the proverbial chute and avoid his umpteenth rebuild.  

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Broken Ankles said:

 Thorny responded adequately for the charade question.  On surface it looks more probable than not Adams does not have what he views is a fair offer and holds onto the asset. And in that scenario I think you are banking on Bo’s motivation for a long term contact to exceed expectations and elevate the Defense.  

The Blues just traded Zack Bolduc to Montreal for defenseman Logan Mailloux. Would getting Bolduc been enough for Byram one-for-one?

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The Blues just traded Zack Bolduc to Montreal for defenseman Logan Mailloux. Would getting Bolduc been enough for Byram one-for-one?

Again, this happened over a week ago. 

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Again, this happened over a week ago. 

 

 

I didn't know and it was the lead headline on the Athletics' NHL page today.

Edited 19 hours ago by PromoTheRobot

[Broken Ankles]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The Blues just traded Zack Bolduc to Montreal for defenseman Logan Mailloux. Would getting Bolduc been enough for Byram one-for-one?

No.  The board would go crazy if he was traded 1/1 for an unproven ELC.  Didn’t watch enough St. Louis games to say,  but the pedigree and stats say not equal.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

No.  The board would go crazy if he was traded 1/1 for an unproven ELC.  Didn’t watch enough St. Louis games to say,  but the pedigree and stats say not equal.  

At this point it's a whatever.  There is no ( and never was a ) long term plan and there was no actual roadmap to fix what is wrong with this team, goaltending and actual defense, this summer.  Adams makes moves just to look like he is doing something without actually accomplishing anything.  Whether Byram stays or goes it doesn't matter.  Keeping Byram is the failed status quo while trading him almost assuredly diminishes the team further.   

Remember that this is the GM who has traded away our 5 most productive Sabres drafted and developed forwards.  Gone are Eichel, Reinhart, Mitts, Cozens and JJP.  In return we have Tuch, Krebs (4th liner), Norris (oft-injured), Kesselring, Byram (?), Doan (bottom 6), Levi (minors), Kulich, Östlund (minors), and JBD (released).   This looks like a huge downgrade in talent and the results in the standings speak for themselves.  Why would any fan expect Adams to get good value for Byram and players who would actually improve the team?

Edited 16 hours ago by GASabresIUFAN

[MISabresFan]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

At this point it's a whatever.  There is no ( and never was a ) long term plan and there was no actual roadmap to fix what is wrong with this team, goaltending and actual defense, this summer.  Adams makes moves just to look like he is doing something without actually accomplishing anything.  Whether Byram stays or goes it doesn't matter.  Keeping Byram is the failed status quo while trading him almost assuredly diminishes the team further.   

Remember that this is the GM who has traded away our 5 most productive Sabres drafted and developed forwards.  Gone are Eichel, Reinhart, Mitts, Cozens and JJP.  In return we have Tuch, Krebs (4th liner), Norris (oft-injured), Kesselring, Byram (?), Doan (bottom 6), Levi (minors), Kulich, Östlund (minors), and JBD (released).   This looks like a huge downgrade in talent and the results in the standings speak for themselves.  Why would any fan expect Adams to get good value for Byram and players who would actually improve the team?

The proof is in the record.

[JP51]

14 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

No.  The board would go crazy if he was traded 1/1 for an unproven ELC.  Didn’t watch enough St. Louis games to say,  but the pedigree and stats say not equal.  

What's funny is I look at these situations too and try to assess fair value etc...  I always come back to we need to finally get the best player in the trade... and for once lets us be the team that creates the "equal"  value with players and prospects or whatever...  Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is the Sabres and especially Kevyn Adams are completely neutered by their situation... we have talked about it ad nauseum NMCs, FA not wanting this cesspool etc.. drastically limiting our options... honestly, it is to the point where I really don't believe a fair trade where we get the best player is possible in these conditions of desperation and horrific leverage... (a LaFontaine for Turgeon trade is impossible)

Bottom line is IMO the longer Adams is managing our assets and the condition surrounding the FO, dysfunction, losing etc... continue the more damage he is going to do every time he trades (unless he gets lucky)... the more talent we will bleed out because he simply cant make a fair trade where he is the one upping the talent pool UNLESS he is doing it for prospects or picks.. which of course as you said and are 100% correct will set the fans/board/press off... and the cycle continues...

I am beginning to move to a very unpopular place... acceptance that without a new GM and FO as well as a tear down of the existing team there is no way out of this... You might find yourself one of these years making the playoffs and summarily being dismissed and the next year out... etc.. but reasonable hope of contention is really not there... He has this year to prove he is a genius... and can turn the tide... if he fails my initial thoughts I believe will play out... and the ones who will finally cement this will be the Dahlin's and Tuch's and Thompsons who bang the drum to leave... I just hope its not Adams in charge of their disposal... 

But at this point I believe some level of rebuild is unfortunately inevitable and as much as I hate to say it... prospects and picks are probably once again our best hope as I don't believe he can up our level of talent in these conditions, conditions he played a very big part in...

Adams baked the souffle its time to eat and unfortunately its caved in on itself... you probably cant save the souffle... 

Edited 4 hours ago by JP51

[Eleven]

15 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

the lead headline on the Athletics' NHL page today.

Also it popped up in my Apple News feed just this morning.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

Also it popped up in my Apple News feed just this morning.

I don't follow every transaction. And when things like that pop up on my feed, I assume it just happened. I need to check first.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, JP51 said:

What's funny is I look at these situations too and try to assess fair value etc...  I always come back to we need to finally get the best player in the trade... and for once lets us be the team that creates the "equal"  value with players and prospects or whatever...  Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is the Sabres and especially Kevyn Adams are completely neutered by their situation... we have talked about it ad nauseum NMCs, FA not wanting this cesspool etc.. drastically limiting our options... honestly, it is to the point where I really don't believe a fair trade where we get the best player is possible in these conditions of desperation and horrific leverage... (a LaFontaine for Turgeon trade is impossible)

Bottom line is IMO the longer Adams is managing our assets and the condition surrounding the FO, dysfunction, losing etc... continue the more damage he is going to do every time he trades (unless he gets lucky)... the more talent we will bleed out because he simply cant make a fair trade where he is the one upping the talent pool UNLESS he is doing it for prospects or picks.. which of course as you said and are 100% correct will set the fans/board/press off... and the cycle continues...

I am beginning to move to a very unpopular place... acceptance that without a new GM and FO as well as a tear down of the existing team there is no way out of this... You might find yourself one of these years making the playoffs and summarily being dismissed and the next year out... etc.. but reasonable hope of contention is really not there... He has this year to prove he is a genius... and can turn the tide... if he fails my initial thoughts I believe will play out... and the ones who will finally cement this will be the Dahlin's and Tuch's and Thompsons who bang the drum to leave... I just hope its not Adams in charge of their disposal... 

But at this point I believe some level of rebuild is unfortunately inevitable and as much as I hate to say it... prospects and picks are probably once again our best hope as I don't believe he can up our level of talent in these conditions, conditions he played a very big part in...

Adams baked the souffle its time to eat and unfortunately its caved in on itself... you probably cant save the souffle... 

Despite my very negative comments and loathing of Adams, my anger really stems from the wasted opportunity that were the young Sabres.  There are real pieces on this team that I believe if handled properly could be the building blocks of a very good hockey team.  Unfortunately Adams is clueless and we are wasting the primes of many of the players list below.

1.  Dahlin - He is a spectacular hockey player and honestly maybe the best defenseman ever to play for the Sabres.

2.  Tuch and Thompson - On a real team these two would be genuine NHL stars.  I like their games and work ethic.

3. Benson and Kulich - I believe in both players and think they have the type of two way games that will make them good to excellent NHL players for the next decade +.  I think Kulich is a good 60 pts 2 way 2nd line center in the next year or 2.

4.  McLeod - He developed in the second half of last year into a perfect 3rd line center for a good playoff team, someone who plays good defense, kills penalties, can play up in the lineup when necessary and can contribute secondary offense.  

5. Zucker - He adds veteran leadership and has more in the tank than I thought. 

6. Power or Byram, but not both. I have been very critical of both players, but both are very good skating young offensive D and I don’t mind have one anchor the 2nd pair as long as the partner is very defensively aware.  Maybe Kesselring is that player, but it’s a huge leap of faith to believe he can go from being a 17 minute a game player to a 22 minute a game player. 

The rest of the team is just roster filler and not good filler at that.  The offense is not the problem with this team.  The problem with this team is in zone D play and goaltending.  These have been the same issues for the last 4 years and Adams “strategy” of hoping kids like UPL, Levi, Samuelsson, and others grow into solving those problems was and is doomed to failure.  A real team would have fired Adams the year the team regressed after the playoff near miss.

 

 

[JP51]

7 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Despite my very negative comments and loathing of Adams, my anger really stems from the wasted opportunity that were the young Sabres.  There are real pieces on this team that I believe if handled properly could be the building blocks of a very good hockey team.  Unfortunately Adams is clueless and we are wasting the primes of many of the players list below.

1.  Dahlin - He is a spectacular hockey player and honestly maybe the best defenseman ever to play for the Sabres.

2.  Tuch and Thompson - On a real team these two would be genuine NHL stars.  I like their games and work ethic.

3. Benson and Kulich - I believe in both players and think they have the type of two way games that will make them good to excellent NHL players for the next decade +.  I think Kulich is a good 60 pts 2 way 2nd line center in the next year or 2.

4.  McLeod - He developed in the second half of last year into a perfect 3rd line center for a good playoff team, someone who plays good defense, kills penalties, can play up in the lineup when necessary and can contribute secondary offense.  

5. Zucker - He adds veteran leadership and has more in the tank than I thought. 

6. Power or Byram, but not both. I have been very critical of both players, but both are very good skating young offensive D and I don’t mind have one anchor the 2nd pair as long as the partner is very defensively aware.  Maybe Kesselring is that player, but it’s a huge leap of faith to believe he can go from being a 17 minute a game player to a 22 minute a game player. 

The rest of the team is just roster filler and not good filler at that.  The offense is not the problem with this team.  The problem with this team is in zone D play and goaltending.  These have been the same issues for the last 4 years and Adams “strategy” of hoping kids like UPL, Levi, Samuelsson, and others grow into solving those problems was and is doomed to failure.  A real team would have fired Adams the year the team regressed after the playoff near miss.

 

 

100% Agreed... I also look at those player we got rid of that should be on your list... no need to rehash them and my anger grows...  I think further the destruction of the brand has effectively neutered him from actually fixing this...  and the risk of losing the players or some of the players you have mentioned... is far far greater than Adams sparking some kind of genius and magically turning this around...  yet.. here we are... 

Edited 2 hours ago by JP51