The offseason so far - Are the Sabres better?

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

 

I think this is looking in the wrong place.

Q: Who are the personalities setting the wrong tone? 

A: Pegula, Adams, and Ruff.

Q: How are Pegula, Adams, and Ruff setting the wrong tone?

A: They are the worst owner, GM, HC combination in the NHL.

- Pegula has never made the playoffs in a full-season as an NHL owner; 14 years and counting.

- Adams has not make the playoffs in 5 years as a GM. No GM in the post-expansion era (since 1967) has started his career going 0 for 5 in making the playoffs with the same team, and then gone on to have success with that team. Only one went on to eventually be known as a good GM; Don Waddell redeemed himself in Carolina.   

- Ruff is the oldest coach in the NHL. He finished third in the Athletic's Coach I Would Not Want to Play For poll last year. He has made the playoffs once in his last 6 seasons as a head coach, posting a .444 winning %. In the 5 of those years that his team missed the playoffs, his team's average position in goals against is 28th.

There is nothing that can be done about Pegula.  Let's hope he finds a way to do a better job hiring the next GM.

If there is a culture issue among the players, it is related to the failures of the men in charge. 

Thank you 

A lot 

[dudacek]

Marty Biron saying hold the cap space to go get a goalie in November if ours fails (or any other holes get exposed.

I say, don’t wait. You’ve got the space right now to sign Timmons and add Rust.

Rust is exactly what they need: a veteran high-motor, high-character winner who just might push those qualities to critical mass. All while being capable of replacing the offence you’ve lost in Peterka.

It makes them deeper, faster and harder to play against.

Finish playing out the hand you’ve dealt. Make it happen. 

Edited yesterday at 10:23 PM by dudacek

[kas23]

4 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

It's a seemingly ongoing thing: the GM/front office is only capable of "fixing" or at least focusing on one thing at a time rather than a complete holistic approach. This comes from the top and Darth Pegula the Wise's flavor of the month approach: Leino was great in one playoff series against us: get him!  Mittelstadt was great at the World Juniors for US: jump him up the board! Taylor Hall is going to make us contenders: get him! Fix the 4th line! We have Dahlin/Power/Muel all locked up long-term -- get all the RHDs!

Was Mrtka the best player available? He very well could be. Time will tell. Did the pick fill an organizational need? No, it added a potentially great player to an organizational surplus.

The future might very well be "Add scoring forwards!" but that is the most expensive to attain unless it's a sell-off-Skinner scenario.

We’ve been told (over and over) that having a surplus of top 4 defensemen is a great problem because you can easily flip them for a top 6 forward….

[Taro T]

18 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Marty Biron saying hold the cap space to go get a goalie in November if ours fails (or any other holes get exposed.

I say, don’t wait. You’ve got the space right now to sign Timmons and add Rust.

Rust is exactly what they need: a veteran high-motor, high-character winner who just might push those qualities to critical mass. All while being capable of replacing the offence you’ve lost in Peterka.

It makes them deeper, faster and harder to play against.

Finish playing out the hand you’ve dealt. Make it happen. 

Hoping that is strictly Marty's opinion and not what he's hearing from the team on how they plan to play out the rest of the off-season.  It would be friggin' criminal to build in ANOTHER excuse for why they can't take the next step back into relevancy in this league.

Rust would not have been my 1st choice for the extra F heading into this off-season.  But at this point in time, with the money they have left and what it will likely take to get him, he, with a little retention by the Pens, is pretty much their best option to ice the best possible roster they can.

[DarthEbriate]

15 minutes ago, kas23 said:

We’ve been told (over and over) that having a surplus of top 4 defensemen is a great problem because you can easily flip them for a top 6 forward….

I think we just saw that in Kesselring (again, a 5/6D by Utah depth chart, top-4 by injuries last season) for Peterka. So, it was... easy?

From a certain point of view.

[dudacek]

14 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Hoping that is strictly Marty's opinion and not what he's hearing from the team on how they plan to play out the rest of the off-season.  It would be friggin' criminal to build in ANOTHER excuse for why they can't take the next step back into relevancy in this league.

Rust would not have been my 1st choice for the extra F heading into this off-season.  But at this point in time, with the money they have left and what it will likely take to get him, he, with a little retention by the Pens, is pretty much their best option to ice the best possible roster they can.

Pretty much all of this.

With all the earlier rumours, and the way the summer has played out exactly in the way I would have scripted it in order to facilitate the move.

You’ve got @thorny’s utterly cynical prediction of how the off-season has played out exactly like Adams planned in order to leave himself a sliver of plausible deniability while scrimping on another $5M. And you know every ounce of evidence of the past 5 years says he’s right.

And then you’ve got the utterly romantic possibility that Adams actually had a plan and is one move away from pulling off a summer where he got harder to play against, insurance in goal, and deeper and more reliable on both the blueline and up front. And you know every ounce of evidence of the past 5 years says you’re a fool to even consider the possibility.

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Pretty much all of this.

With all the earlier rumours, and the way the summer has played out exactly in the way I would have scripted it in order to facilitate the move.

You’ve got @thorny’s utterly cynical prediction of how the off-season has played out exactly like Adams planned in order to leave himself a sliver of plausible deniability while scrimping on another $5M. And you know every ounce of evidence of the past 5 years says he’s right.

And then you’ve got the utterly romantic possibility that Adams actually had a plan and is one move away from pulling off a summer where he got harder to play against, insurance in goal, and deeper and more reliable on both the blueline and up front. And you know every ounce of evidence of the past 5 years says you’re a fool to even consider the possibility.

And if they don't make another move, @Thorny will be completely justified in taking his victory lap.  (Even if they do grab Rust, he still won't have been too far off from what they actually did.)  But they KNOW Timmons will come in under $2MM, likely around $1.5MM.  So they know pretty well how much money they have to use on Rust and with knowing that they should also know how much other capital they'll have to give the Pens to land him.  

But the 2 year walk to UFA for Byram actually makes sense from a hockey standpoint, not simply from a cheaping out standpoint.  He's in cheaper than he would've been buying UFA years (and considering what he was looking for, considerably cheaper than it would've cost to lock in some of those years) at a time when Skinner's cap hit is ~$4.4 this year and ~$6.4 next year with Tuch (UFA), Kesselring, Benson, Krebs, and Doan all needing new deals (Timmons and Malynsten too but they'll be a UFA so he'll have a bit more of a say in whether they're back or not and can easily see the Sabres letting both walk).  With the cap going up they should be able to get all those back and still have some room to bring in another asset or 2 (especially if Samuelsson is taken out of the picture).

That following year when Skinner is only $2.4MM skimmed off the cap, they will have a knowledge of what they want to do with Byram and Kesselring (provided his deal didn't buy any UFA years the previous year).  Up front only Greenway, Zucker, and Danforth are UFAs that year and they likely would walk from at least 2 of them and Quinn is the only RFA F of note that year as well.  Maybe they go back that year to cheaping out as our Winnipeg based friend expects, but also, maybe Pegula sees a value to letting the team rejoin their league just like he seems to see value from having the Bills and Bandits among the top teams in their leagues.

 

As frustrating as this off-season has been, and it has been frustrating as a fan, bringing in Rust would once again bring a modicum hope.  Which, especially if it means they don't end up making the changes in the FO and behind the bench that need to be made, might be worse than remaining hopeless.

[Thorny]

I don’t want a victory lap.
 

I want to make the playoffs one more time 

The day I’m actually revealed to be a cynical fool rather than merely claimed to be one will he a glorious day for the sabres - and it’ll be a long time coming 

[inkman]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

And if they don't make another move, @Thorny will be completely justified in taking his victory lap.  (Even if they do grab Rust, he still won't have been too far off from what they actually did.)  But they KNOW Timmons will come in under $2MM, likely around $1.5MM.  So they know pretty well how much money they have to use on Rust and with knowing that they should also know how much other capital they'll have to give the Pens to land him.  

But the 2 year walk to UFA for Byram actually makes sense from a hockey standpoint, not simply from a cheaping out standpoint.  He's in cheaper than he would've been buying UFA years (and considering what he was looking for, considerably cheaper than it would've cost to lock in some of those years) at a time when Skinner's cap hit is ~$4.4 this year and ~$6.4 next year with Tuch (UFA), Kesselring, Benson, Krebs, and Doan all needing new deals (Timmons and Malynsten too but they'll be a UFA so he'll have a bit more of a say in whether they're back or not and can easily see the Sabres letting both walk).  With the cap going up they should be able to get all those back and still have some room to bring in another asset or 2 (especially if Samuelsson is taken out of the picture).

That following year when Skinner is only $2.4MM skimmed off the cap, they will have a knowledge of what they want to do with Byram and Kesselring (provided his deal didn't buy any UFA years the previous year).  Up front only Greenway, Zucker, and Danforth are UFAs that year and they likely would walk from at least 2 of them and Quinn is the only RFA F of note that year as well.  Maybe they go back that year to cheaping out as our Winnipeg based friend expects, but also, maybe Pegula sees a value to letting the team rejoin their league just like he seems to see value from having the Bills and Bandits among the top teams in their leagues.

 

As frustrating as this off-season has been, and it has been frustrating as a fan, bringing in Rust would once again bring a modicum hope.  Which, especially if it means they don't end up making the changes in the FO and behind the bench that need to be made, might be worse than remaining hopeless.

If the offseason moves are complete, it’s hard to not feel Charlie Browned.  We were blood thirsty for an overhaul.  Get rid of everyone.  I was a part of it. Maybe at the forefront. 
 

We should have know once Kevyn was back and Bryson was resigned, the template was set.  Trim payroll, give the appearance of forward momentum, give us plebes some hope. 
 

We know the drill now.  The team is in an endless loop of cost cutting and status quo.  It’s just hard to swallow.  Well, not for @thorny.  😀

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I don’t want a victory lap.
 

I want to make the playoffs one more time 

The day I’m actually revealed to be a cynical fool rather than merely claimed to be one will he a glorious day for the sabres - and it’ll be a long time coming 

Well, at least we know for sure GA has NOT hijacked your account.  😉 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, inkman said:

If the offseason moves are complete, it’s hard to not feel Charlie Browned.  We were blood thirsty for an overhaul.  Get rid of everyone.  I was a part of it. Maybe at the forefront. 
 

We should have know once Kevyn was back and Bryson was resigned, the template was set.  Trim payroll, give the appearance of forward momentum, give us plebes some hope. 
 

We know the drill now.  The team is in an endless loop of cost cutting and status quo.  It’s just hard to swallow.  Well, not for @thorny.  😀

Even with bringing in Rust or the like, it'll be hard not to feel like the Sabres should be renamed Lucy.

When the extent of the coaching change was "bring us the head of the S&C coach" we were in for a loooooooong off-season.  Thing is, it doesn't HAVE to be this way.  Which just makes everything else so darn frustrating as we keep desperately hoping not to hear Sonny and Cher singing in the AM but keep finding ourselves hearing it over and over and over.

But IF they do make that one extra futures for actual player move; we might finally get to hear some other ###### 70's song to wake up to.  😉  Hearing Eric Carmen belting out "please, go all the way" would be much better.  😉 (But at any rate, please dear God, don't let it be Muskrat Love.  That might be worse than never moving forward again.  😉 )

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Even with bringing in Rust or the like, it'll be hard not to feel like the Sabres should be renamed Lucy.

When the extent of the coaching change was "bring us the head of the S&C coach" we were in for a loooooooong off-season.  Thing is, it doesn't HAVE to be this way.  Which just makes everything else so darn frustrating as we keep desperately hoping not to hear Sonny and Cher singing in the AM but keep finding ourselves hearing it over and over and over.

But IF they do make that one extra futures for actual player move; we might finally get to hear some other ###### 70's song to wake up to.  😉  Hearing Eric Carmen belting out "please, go all the way" would be much better.  😉 (But at any rate, please dear God, don't let it be Muskrat Love.  That might be worse than never moving forward again.  😉 )

[kas23]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

I think we just saw that in Kesselring (again, a 5/6D by Utah depth chart, top-4 by injuries last season) for Peterka. So, it was... easy?

From a certain point of view.

But it hasn’t been easy for Kevyn to ship out a top pairing defenseman for a top 6 forward. He kept telling us defensemen are a valuable “currency”,  but so far, he hasn’t been able to get it done. And it’s not even that we want a JJP back, but at least a winger who can score 20 or so goals who’s defensively adept. It’s fine we are keeping Byram (for now), but to me, this is just because Kevyn failed to consummate a decent trade. This feels like a default move rather than something deliberate. 

[elijah]

I’m not sure I love the Rust idea, or even understand the love for it. 

Sure, he replaces the offense that we lost in JJP. But he also brings right back the horrible defensive void that we thought we were righting the ship on while trading Peterka. 

I know we’re hungry for an offseason that says we tried and are trying to compete, but simply adding a big name for the sake of adding a big name doesn’t exactly accomplish that. This team vitally needs to get better at defensive team hockey, and I would argue the forwards are the biggest culprit. It was nice to add defensemen that seem like they’ll help, but going out and adding a veteran version of Peterka just to do so feels like it’s 1 step forward and 2 steps back

I’d love and am clamoring for another middle 6 guy, and I’m also worried about the goals and offense we’re losing with Peterka. But you need to add one responsibly, and not just add one for the hell of it IMO

[dudacek]

24 minutes ago, elijah said:

I’m not sure I love the Rust idea, or even understand the love for it. 

Sure, he replaces the offense that we lost in JJP. But he also brings right back the horrible defensive void that we thought we were righting the ship on while trading Peterka. 

I know we’re hungry for an offseason that says we tried and are trying to compete, but simply adding a big name for the sake of adding a big name doesn’t exactly accomplish that. This team vitally needs to get better at defensive team hockey, and I would argue the forwards are the biggest culprit. It was nice to add defensemen that seem like they’ll help, but going out and adding a veteran version of Peterka just to do so feels like it’s 1 step forward and 2 steps back

I’d love and am clamoring for another middle 6 guy, and I’m also worried about the goals and offense we’re losing with Peterka. But you need to add one responsibly, and not just add one for the hell of it IMO

It certainly doesn’t have to be Rust.

Putting his name out there is fuelled primarily by the reports that he is available and someone the Sabres have engaged in serious talks about acquiring.

Beyond that, he ticks the following boxes.

• veteran
• proven winner from a winning program
• proven top 6 production
• Contract that fits under the cap
• up-tempo pace-pushing style
• not afraid of contact or sacrifice
• responsible
• Track record of positive analytics

I don’t agree with your concerns that he’s another Peterka defensively. I know his charts weren’t impressive defensively last year, but this is not a guy whose known to shirk his own zone.

What I don’t like about Rust is the age and the potential for,drop-off or the price I hear we might have to pay. But I think it would be hard to find a better fit for this particular season’s needs and the futures that I’d like to pay

 

[thewookie1]

There are 4 primary issues with Rust

1. Age

2. His stats are inflated by Crosby

3. Many potential buyers 

4. Defensive play is questionable at best

 

Also I have zero interest in moving our 2026 1st or Helenius for him. If you can use other pieces I can grin and bear it but don’t trade our only legit C prospect and the only safety net we have for next off season

[LGR4GM]

I'm not saying I agree, I just find an outside take interesting. 

Which teams are the most improved.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6496153/2025/07/16/nhl-most-improved-2025/

"7. Buffalo Sabres

Net Rating added: +9

In: Josh Doan, Justin Danforth, Michael Kesselring, Conor Timmins, Alex Lyon

Out: JJ Peterka, Sam Lafferty, Connor Clifton, Jacob Bernard-Docker

There are a lot of folks who haven’t been thrilled with Buffalo’s offseason and that’s understandable. For the third straight year, it feels like it’s been time to push the chips in, spend some money and gun for a playoff spot. Instead, the Sabres made depth moves and shipped off a true top-six scorer without addressing the void afterward.

It feels like a wasted opportunity, which probably makes Buffalo’s placement here seem out of touch with reality.

Maybe it is — betting on the Sabres has been a terrible idea for over a decade. But maybe this is the year Buffalo does turn the corner, thanks to internal jumps buoyed by cleaned-up depth.

Josh Doan is not as good as JJ Peterka. That’s a downgrade without question. But his underrated defensive game compared to Peterka’s issues without the puck does mean the gap might not be as large as their point totals suggest. Add more Justin Danforth and less Beck Malenstyn on the fourth line and it’s possible the Sabres can cover up the loss in the aggregate. There is arguably enough young, developing forward depth to sustain a Peterka-sized loss.

The more important factor, though, is that the jump from Connor Clifton to Michael Kesselring is substantially larger than the drop from Peterka to Doan. Buffalo’s defense corps was a major weakness last season, one that Kesselring’s presence can help fix. He did well in a top-pair role when Utah ran into injuries last season, enough to believe he’s a true top-four defenseman. Pair him with Owen Power and Buffalo’s top four looks genuinely decent for the first time in a long time.

The addition of Conor Timmins should help with things as well. He showed some promise in an elevated role with Pittsburgh, enough to believe he can form an actually good third pair with the defensively stout Mattias Samuelsson. Timmins isn’t much, but he’s probably a better option than what Buffalo was toiling with last year in the same role. 

Defensive depth is something this team has been missing for a while. If everything goes according to plan after this offseason, it’ll finally be a source of strength for Buffalo. And that could be what changes everything for this team. The Sabres have gone from one good pair led by Rasmus Dahlin to potentially three." - Dom Luszczyszyn

*Note that Norris for Cozens isn't a part of this because it happened at the deadline. 

Edited 7 hours ago by LGR4GM

[LGR4GM]

The only eastern team we care about who is above on this list is Montreal. Carolina is also a smidgen above but the rest is western teams. Speaking of the West, Utah ended up at 28th with a -8.

Edited 6 hours ago by LGR4GM

[North Buffalo]

13 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The only eastern team we care about who is above on this list is Montreal. Carolina is also a smidgen above but the rest is western teams.

Have Sabres improved... how much remains to be seen... still holes to be filled especially top 6 on offense... or young guys really stepping up.

[JohnC]

17 hours ago, Taro T said:

Well, at least we know for sure GA has NOT hijacked your account.  😉 

@GASabresIUFANhas been sent to a rest home to treat his uncontrollable rage and depression related to the GM's lack of activity this offseason. Georgia George wanted the GM to completely turn over the roster and get rid of all the dead wood i.e. 90% of the roster.  However, he's been ordered by the psyche staff and his family to take a break from SabreSpace where he constantly works himself into a self-induced rage. I'm sure after a revitalizing respite Georgia George will become a calm and placid Sabre fan once the season starts. Out of deference to his mental health I will not mention the name Owen Power. His fuse gets lit whenever that name is mentioned.  We all wish him the best. He's a treasured member of this discordant community. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

@GASabresIUFANhas been sent to a rest home to treat his uncontrollable rage and depression related to the GM's lack of activity this offseason. Georgia George wanted the GM to completely turn over the roster and get rid of all the dead wood i.e. 90% of the roster.  However, he's been ordered by the psyche staff and his family to take a break from SabreSpace where he constantly works himself into a self-induced rage. I'm sure after a revitalizing respite Georgia George will become a calm and placid Sabre fan once the season starts. Out of deference to his mental health I will not mention the name Owen Power. His fuse gets lit whenever that name is mentioned.  We all wish him the best. He's a treasured member of this discordant community. 

This post is not funny or insightful.  It’s frankly rude and insulting.  Blocked.

[Drag0nDan]

18 hours ago, kas23 said:

But it hasn’t been easy for Kevyn to ship out a top pairing defenseman for a top 6 forward. He kept telling us defensemen are a valuable “currency”,  but so far, he hasn’t been able to get it done. And it’s not even that we want a JJP back, but at least a winger who can score 20 or so goals who’s defensively adept. It’s fine we are keeping Byram (for now), but to me, this is just because Kevyn failed to consummate a decent trade. This feels like a default move rather than something deliberate. 

The market's ice cold right now.  But later on people will be hurt, contenders will be looking for help, and other teams will fire their GM's and the new guy might want to ship stuff out.  If you have only like two teams calling about a player, its probably not a good time to trade the player.  

Edited 4 hours ago by Drag0nDan

[JohnC]

25 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This post is not funny or insightful.  It’s frankly rude and insulting.  Blocked.

If you feel offended I apologize. I didn’t intend it to make you upset.

[HumanSlinky39]

19 hours ago, inkman said:

If the offseason moves are complete, it’s hard to not feel Charlie Browned.  We were blood thirsty for an overhaul.  Get rid of everyone.  I was a part of it. Maybe at the forefront. 
 

We should have know once Kevyn was back and Bryson was resigned, the template was set.  Trim payroll, give the appearance of forward momentum, give us plebes some hope. 
 

We know the drill now.  The team is in an endless loop of cost cutting and status quo.  It’s just hard to swallow.  Well, not for @thorny.  😀

Yeah, pretty much where I am. We traded a young, potentially dynamic top-6 scoring forward for a very solid defenseman and a bottom-6 forward "grinder" with limited offensive upside. Made a lateral move in net. A couple of other minor moves.

The weeeeee bit of hope I'm holding out is that Byram will play inspired hockey as his deal walks him to UFA. Hopefully Kesselring upgrades the D core enough that it's now at least above average. If these moves improve the defense enough, maybe we get better goalie play. Losing Peterka hurts offensively, but we still have some good offensive players. TNT must stay healthy...Tuch, too. If Norris stays healthy he's a pretty large upgrade on Cozens both ways. Hopefully Quinn takes a step forward...achilles injuries can take a while to recover from. 2024/25 MacLeod needs to be who he is. Hopefully Benson advances offensively in year 3.

That's a lot of "hopefully", but that's where we are. Nothing concrete, just "hopefully"...much like the last 3 years. I've said multiple times in recent weeks that we need a GM with BALLS. Adams seems to have accepted that Buffalo is not an attractive destination, so he settles for these smaller moves and just hopes "his guys" improve. We need a GM that doesn't accept that Buffalo isn't an attractive destination and will go out and TRY to make bold moves.