The offseason so far - Are the Sabres better?

[Weave]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I'm curious how they staff the 1st PP this year?

Do they go status quo and just plug Kulich into JJ's slot? It's his natural role and he has a history of being very good there.

Another unwrapped option is Norris, who also has a history of being very good on the PP, but from the Thompson position.

I think one of the issues is the lack of a pure passer and/or playmaker other than Dahlin.

And with Ras kinda anchored at the top, who is breaking down the box with motion and misdirection? Who is sneaking down from the top? 

I've seen Byram and Power have success at doing the above and wouldn't mind their skills being better utilized on the PP.

Teams moved away from 2D on the PP basically to get their best offensive talent on the ice. I think you could make a very good case that Byram and Power are among our five most talented players.

Maybe they should explore using those skills.

What do they have to lose?

I’ll go so far as to call it incompetence if they don’t make a reasonable effort at using Dahlin and Byram together in the 1st unit.  Our strength right now is in elite skill on defense.  Feature it.  That doesn’t mean we have to have both up top.  One can certainly be stationed on the wall, and they both have the skillsets to make it work.

And that would mean one more decent forward for the #2 unit as well.

It would also mean Byram gets what he wants, and if the points come his value outside of the organization grows as well.

[Drag0nDan]

4 minutes ago, Weave said:

I’ll go so far as to call it incompetence if they don’t make a reasonable effort at using Dahlin and Byram together in the 1st unit.  Our strength right now is in elite skill on defense.  Feature it.  That doesn’t mean we have to have both up top.  One can certainly be stationed on the wall, and they both have the skillsets to make it work.

And that would mean one more decent forward for the #2 unit as well.

It would also mean Byram gets what he wants, and if the points come his value outside of the organization grows as well.

Opposite tage would probably make sense as they need a lefty there.  Byram and Dahlin are both pretty good shooters, and you can rotate them a bit easier.  Maybe use mcleod as a net front guy with tuch in the middle.  

Unit 2 would be power at the top - Norris in tages spot and kulich on the other, and two of zucker/quinn/benson/maybe doan if you're looking for more net front prescence.

[Taro T]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

I'm curious how they staff the 1st PP this year?

Do they go status quo and just plug Kulich into JJ's slot? It's his natural role and he has a history of being very good there.

Another unwrapped option is Norris, who also has a history of being very good on the PP, but from the Thompson position.

I think one of the issues is the lack of a pure passer and/or playmaker other than Dahlin.

And with Ras kinda anchored at the top, who is breaking down the box with motion and misdirection? Who is sneaking down from the top? 

I've seen Byram and Power have success at doing the above and wouldn't mind their skills being better utilized on the PP.

Teams moved away from 2D on the PP basically to get their best offensive talent on the ice. I think you could make a very good case that Byram and Power are among our five most talented players.

Maybe they should explore using those skills.

What do they have to lose?

 

3 hours ago, Weave said:

I’ll go so far as to call it incompetence if they don’t make a reasonable effort at using Dahlin and Byram together in the 1st unit.  Our strength right now is in elite skill on defense.  Feature it.  That doesn’t mean we have to have both up top.  One can certainly be stationed on the wall, and they both have the skillsets to make it work.

And that would mean one more decent forward for the #2 unit as well.

It would also mean Byram gets what he wants, and if the points come his value outside of the organization grows as well.

Yeah, if the idea is to have a 2nd playmaker on the ice for the top PP, Byram has to be on that unit.  So, Byram, Dahlin, and Thompson are locks.  Zucker isn't ideal down low, but he's the best the Sabres have so the question becomes Benson, Kulich, Norris, or Quinn as the 5th skater on the unit.  Counterintuitively, would give Quinn the 1st crack at it.  Would show they believe in him and give him an opportunity to make up for last year; PLUS if you don't use him on the 1st unit, you'll be using him on the 2nd unit which will only have Power on it from D.  How many mother f'n goals is that 2nd unit going to give up having Power and Quinn both on that unit?

Make the 2nd unit Power, Tuch, Benson, Kulich, and Norris.  Which SHOULD be a good unit with Benson on the bumper and Tuch down low.  Just like with the other unit a strong 1 timer could come from either side.

[mjd1001]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

 

And with Ras kinda anchored at the top, who is breaking down the box with motion and misdirection? Who is sneaking down from the top? 

I've seen Byram and Power have success at doing the above and wouldn't mind their skills being better utilized on the PP.

Teams moved away from 2D on the PP basically to get their best offensive talent on the ice. I think you could make a very good case that Byram and Power are among our five most talented players.

Maybe they should explore using those skills.

What do they have to lose?

I have been wondering this for a long time now with mostly the Sabres but across the NHL.

Why not use both Dahlin and Byram on the first PP unit with 3 forwards? If they are regular defense partners, they sure would 'know' each others tendencies better than Dahlin with a random winger, and plus Byram could get his PP touches and points also.

Some of these D-men are really skilled with the puck (like Byram). This isn't the last 1980s were your defense had one guy (Housley) and a bunch of guys like Joe Reekie, Mike Ramsey, Uwe Krupp, Dean Kennedy, and Bob Halkidas....that I wouldn't want anywhere near a PP.

Edited Monday at 09:50 PM by mjd1001

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

I have been wondering this for a long time now with mostly the Sabres but across the NHL.

Why not use both Dahlin and Byram on the first PP unit with 3 forwards? If they are regular defense partners, they sure would 'know' each others tendencies better than Dahlin with a random winger, and plus Byram could get his PP touches and points also.

I called for it last summer.

Old school PP with Bo and Ras cycling in and out of the mid-point and sneaking down low, Tage and Kulich rotating behind them firing from distance, probably Bennie down low going to the net, retrieving pucks and making plays.

It will be different than what most PKs are used to.

[dudacek]

Then you can go with a more traditional PP2:

Power flanked by Norris and Quinn, with Tuch and Zucker in the bumper and down low.

[Weave]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Then you can go with a more traditional PP2:

Power flanked by Norris and Quinn, with Tuch and Zucker in the bumper and down low.

And Kesselring had PP time in Utah.  He’s an option for the big shot off the dot on the 2nd unit.

[Taro T]

It was a good call.  Didn't agree with it at the time, but back then wanted Thompson, Tuch, Peterka, and Quinn (yikes, horrible friggin' call) out there with Dahlin.  

Expecting if they run it, they'll run it with Byram taking the role of being the player opposite Thompson on the right half wall.

But wonder what would happen if they ran it more like a traditional old-school 3-2 PP with 1 major wrinkle.  Have BOTH the D, who are very good puck movers cheating in lower into the zone and effectively then having the bumper pushing down lower to the net as well.  It necessarily puts them tighter to the defenders working against them, but am fine with both Dahlin and Byram being able to keep the puck and pass it cleanly under pressure.

As everything is more compact; you are necessarily geting more traffic in front of the goalie and also reducing how long he has to react to the pass/shot combo.

It couldn't POSSIBLY be any worse relatively speaking than their drop pass through 2 zones as an entry.  AND it would have the advantage of being something other teams don't often see so they won't be as skilled at defending it.  If it turns out that they do lose the puck too often, they could always adjust it to the more in vogue diamond with a bumper.

[mjd1001]

And a minor thing that doesn't happen often but does happen...

When the team has a bad giveaway on the PP, it might help them defend the opposing team's SH break having an actual D-man back there than a forward who has little clue to to play a 2-on-1.

The Sabres did allow 8 or 9 shorthanded goals, and 50 shots against / 20 high danger shots against when the were on the PP last year.

 

[Taro T]

Just now, mjd1001 said:

And a minor thing that doesn't happen often but does happen...

When the team has a bad giveaway on the PP, it might help them defend the opposing team's SH break having an actual D-man back there than a forward who has little clue to to play a 2-on-1.

The Sabres did allow 8 or 9 shorthanded goals, and 50 shots against / 20 high danger shots against when the were on the PP last year.

 

Well, yes.  And that's why if Quinn is on either PP unit, he is on the one w/ 2 D rather than the one with only 1.  😉 

[CallawaySabres]

When was the last time the national media had a consensus that a team was bottom five worst in their league and that team surprised?
 

I have no doubt that Buffalo is still one of the five worst teams in the NHL.

[PromoTheRobot]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6480740/2025/07/09/sabres-live-questions-july-2025/

This is the Athletic which means paywall. But it's an excellent and balanced discussion of the state of the Sabres via Q&A with Matthew Fairbairn.

PM me if you have trouble reading it.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, CallawaySabres said:

When was the last time the national media had a consensus that a team was bottom five worst in their league and that team surprised?
 

I have no doubt that Buffalo is still one of the five worst teams in the NHL.

Is that the consensus? Actually asking, have not seen those discussions.

Would it surprise you to learn that 9 teams have had worse records than the Buffalo Sabres over the past four years, who have never finished bottom five in that span?

In answer to your question, not sure if it was bottom 5 in the league, but Montreal was consensus last in the division just this year and surprised.

(Before anyone jumps on me for defending the Sabres, they suck, I’m just responding to his post.)

 

[PromoTheRobot]

15 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Is that the consensus? Actually asking, have not seen those discussions.

Would it surprise you to learn that 9 teams have had worse records than the Buffalo Sabres over the past four years, who have never finished bottom five in that span?

In answer to your question, not sure if it was bottom 5 in the league, but Montreal was consensus last in the division just this year and surprised.

(Before anyone jumps on me for defending the Sabres, they suck, I’m just responding to his post.)

 

The Bills were rarely a bottom 5 team during their 17 year playoff drought. They were endlessly in the 6-10/7-9/8-8 zone. Not the worst but not good enough. Limbo.

[LGR4GM]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Is that the consensus? Actually asking, have not seen those discussions.

Would it surprise you to learn that 9 teams have had worse records than the Buffalo Sabres over the past four years, who have never finished bottom five in that span?

In answer to your question, not sure if it was bottom 5 in the league, but Montreal was consensus last in the division just this year and surprised.

(Before anyone jumps on me for defending the Sabres, they suck, I’m just responding to his post.)

 

Montreal might be somewhat of a paper tiger. They had a -20 goal differential which is the same as Buffalo and only 1 better than Detroit. That is worse than Calgary, Utah, Seattle, Minnesota, and Vancouver. 

Their defense is certainly better with Dobson. Lane Hutson is the perfect example of talent can trump size when it is elite. That is the biggest improvement to their team other than more experience. They got above average GT last year which really helped them as well, once they moved away from Cayden Primeau. The one thing I wonder about them is their forward group. Will it continue to have the depth scoring to be good? FTR, I am not saying Montreal won't make the playoffs or can't. They are just an interesting group because they have similarities to Buffalo but they got timely gt where Buffalo did not. They were able to sneak in even with some flaws and they are probably better now. Just an interesting team to watch to see if they hold onto their spot or if they can be beaten. 

[JP51]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

The Bills were rarely a bottom 5 team during their 17 year playoff drought. They were endlessly in the 6-10/7-9/8-8 zone. Not the worst but not good enough. Limbo.

Some times bottom 3rd consistently is worse than bottom 3...  but over 14 years we have been both and we have proven that we can screw both up...  so there is that....  But to your point, especially in football when you must have a QB that 10-12 range is the worst to be in...  Its why I look at teams like the Steelers and go.. dude cut bait and go get your guy.. 

[French Collection]

There have not been many changes to this team so I am of the position that most of the lineup will have to perform near the top of their abilities, young guns take a step forward and avoiding a major injury to any of Dahlin, TNT and Tuch in order to make the playoffs. Hope is still KA’s strategy.
 

Goaltending is better, provided UPL can play decently, somewhere between his best and last season.

Defense is better with Kesselring and Timmins vs Jokiharju and Clifton. Power should take a step forward to help. Byram still has upside.

Scoring is down with the loss of JJP. Doan can get half of his goals. An uptick from Quinn, Benson and Kulich can cover the rest.

[HILLsabre]

I think a better, more appropriate question in this point in time is, NOT are they a better team BUT, are they a playoff team. This team could be a lot better than last year AND still miss the playoffs!! My opinion is there is A LOT of work to do for serious playoff contention. The issue is the word SERIOUS when discussing this franchise's brass.🤨

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, HILLsabre said:

I think a better, more appropriate question in this point in time is, NOT are they a better team BUT, are they a playoff team. This team could be a lot better than last year AND still miss the playoffs!! My opinion is there is A LOT of work to do for serious playoff contention. The issue is the word SERIOUS when discussing this franchise's brass.🤨

Getting into semantics.  And yes, the more interesting question is whether the team is a playoff team.

BUT.  If we can't even say that they are a better team than they were last year at present, then there is no way the team is a playoff team.  IMHO it's a bit like asking whether the team is a SCC caliber team without being able to answer your question in the affirmative.  It's the one we all want to answer to be 'yes' but it's WAAAAYYYY to early to even contemplate asking that one.  Because right now that's a huge negatory to that one.  And it's a negatory to your question unless a WHOLE lot of variables break their way because right now the answer to the thread's question is 'maybe.'

[Thorny]

Wait hold on, so the Buffalo Sabres…..*actually aren’t* going to improve their hockey team? Every day when I get around to thinking about it it surprises me again. I refuse to let myself become desensitized to the otherworldly ineptitude of this team 

A shocking offseason thus far 

[Pimlach]

Talking to lots of Sabres fans in Buffalo, young and old.   There is almost ZERO excitement for the team and the upcoming season. 

The players brought in are not moving the needle with Sabres fans, many of which have become only casual fans.  

Go Bills! is the word.  

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Talking to lots of Sabres fans in Buffalo, young and old.   There is almost ZERO excitement for the team and the upcoming season. 

The players brought in are not moving the needle with Sabres fans, many of which have become only casual fans.  

Go Bills! is the word.  

It’s past the point where one can deny they are a sucker for caring 

[DarthEbriate]

5 hours ago, French Collection said:

There have not been many changes to this team so I am of the position that most of the lineup will have to perform near the top of their abilities, young guns take a step forward and avoiding a major injury to any of Dahlin, TNT and Tuch in order to make the playoffs. Hope is still KA’s strategy.
 

Goaltending is better, provided UPL can play decently, somewhere between his best and last season.

Defense is better with Kesselring and Timmins vs Jokiharju and Clifton. Power should take a step forward to help. Byram still has upside.

Scoring is down with the loss of JJP. Doan can get half of his goals. An uptick from Quinn, Benson and Kulich can cover the rest.

Reimer v. Lyon. Reimer is in the backup phase of his career and Lyon has never been in the 1A phase of his career.

From 2020-2025, Reimer is 3.02 GAA and .903 % while Lyon is 2.98 and .903 %. They're a push.

UPL is likely to still be an inconsistent goalie. Levi should start in the AHL but will likely force his way up again.

If Lyon is playing slightly better than Luukkonen, can Ruff be smart and play the veteran a bit more -- while not burning out either? Reimer could easily have played more games last season overall, but then at the end was ridden into the dirt. Trust and balance: can Ruff find them? Can this goalie tandem provide both?

Right now, on paper, I'd say goaltending is a push.

 

Kesselring will fight and defend teammates: that's good. But, he's only ever been top-4 in a limited capacity because of injuries. Clifton would battle, but was small and a 6/7. Timmins is a 3rd pairing guy.
Both new guys are bigger and stronger than Joker, which is good, but I'm not yet sure either is a better all-around player than Jokiharju was (remember, he went to Boston and played great with Zadorov in top-pair minutes and he helped Power look fine-for-a-newbie in 2 previous seasons). The d-corps may come down to coaching and strategy (yikes!), quickly gelling and finding consistency with new partners, and Dahlin's health. Bryson is currently the #7 which means he'll play about 40 games when he's not just happy to be in the press box.

The coach needs to play Byram-Dahlin from the get-go (provided one is still on the roster) and try to get the most out of them while not relying on them for everything and killing them by midseason.

On paper, now, the D is a little bit better -- with potential to be greatly improved.

 

At forward, by line:

Benson (at this age 20) is a downgrade from JJP overall. (For comparison, at 20, JJP got a 2-game looksee and was already physically big/mature. He's always had the build.) However, Benson's ceiling is much higher because of his defensive chops and his playmaking ability. At age 20, he probably still should only be counted on for a high of 50 points (which is very good! for a 20 year-old). Slafkovsky had 51 last year with loads of PP time and top-6 ice.

Kulich should be better than Kulich (or he'll have a sophomore slump).

TNT = TNT and should continue to carry the scoring load.

 

Quinn is a slight upgrade from Benson (offensively -- he should easily score more goals than Benson did last season), but much worse defensively. Hopefully, that is countered by his new linemates...

Norris should be a step up from Cozens in production and drastically improved defensively. 

Tuch = Tuch in a contract year, but probably a slight bit down in the actual goal-scoring department. 30-potential instead of pushing for 40.

 

Zucker = Zucker, but probably not quite as many goals as last year. Depends on PP time.

McLeod = due for regression, until Norris gets injured. Still, he's really solid and can play up the lineup and will be PK1.

Doan = Should be able to beat out, and be an upgrade to, Greenway because of his forechecking and possession metrics. With Zucker/McLeod he'd be a very good 3rd line contributor. Offensively, he's not as good as Quinn and slightly better than Greenway -- the two 3rd liners he'd be replacing. Overall, he's a push in terms of averaged out scoring production and also the average of the prior players' extremes defensively.

 

Malenstyn = Malenstyn = fine for a 4th line

Krebs = Krebs

Greenway is a massive upgrade than last year's version of Lafferty. Penalty killing, grinding in corners, and the occasional brawn. He provides more to the team than we give credit. That said... he's good for 40 games given his shoulder(s), so...

Danforth is also a massive upgrade over last year's version of Lafferty.

The fourth line is overpaid, but will be solid.

 

Overall, the forwards should be a bit better at a 200' game -- until Norris and Greenway are both injured. Then, it will open up opportunities to those who can take advantage, but it could also swiftly sink the season, especially if other teams are playing their starting goalies and not coasting to season's end already.

Finally, how has the PP strategy improved this offseason?

 

On paper, the Sabres should be 4-8 points better in the standings -- so still about 4-8 points short of the playoffs depending on the pace while teams tank for McKenna.

And I hope they have a Devils-like Ruff-led 112-point breakout season. That'd be excellent. Then they should still fire Adams into the nearest asteroid field.

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

Reimer v. Lyon. Reimer is in the backup phase of his career and Lyon has never been in the 1A phase of his career.

From 2020-2025, Reimer is 3.02 GAA and .903 % while Lyon is 2.98 and .903 %. They're a push.

UPL is likely to still be an inconsistent goalie. Levi should start in the AHL but will likely force his way up again.

If Lyon is playing slightly better than Luukkonen, can Ruff be smart and play the veteran a bit more -- while not burning out either? Reimer could easily have played more games last season overall, but then at the end was ridden into the dirt. Trust and balance: can Ruff find them? Can this goalie tandem provide both?

Right now, on paper, I'd say goaltending is a push.

 

Kesselring will fight and defend teammates: that's good. But, he's only ever been top-4 in a limited capacity because of injuries. Clifton would battle, but was small and a 6/7. Timmins is a 3rd pairing guy.
Both new guys are bigger and stronger than Joker, which is good, but I'm not yet sure either is a better all-around player than Jokiharju was (remember, he went to Boston and played great with Zadorov in top-pair minutes and he helped Power look fine-for-a-newbie in 2 previous seasons). The d-corps may come down to coaching and strategy (yikes!), quickly gelling and finding consistency with new partners, and Dahlin's health. Bryson is currently the #7 which means he'll play about 40 games when he's not just happy to be in the press box.

The coach needs to play Byram-Dahlin from the get-go (provided one is still on the roster) and try to get the most out of them while not relying on them for everything and killing them by midseason.

On paper, now, the D is a little bit better -- with potential to be greatly improved.

 

At forward, by line:

Benson (at this age 20) is a downgrade from JJP overall. (For comparison, at 20, JJP got a 2-game looksee and was already physically big/mature. He's always had the build.) However, Benson's ceiling is much higher because of his defensive chops and his playmaking ability. At age 20, he probably still should only be counted on for a high of 50 points (which is very good! for a 20 year-old). Slafkovsky had 51 last year with loads of PP time and top-6 ice.

Kulich should be better than Kulich (or he'll have a sophomore slump).

TNT = TNT and should continue to carry the scoring load.

 

Quinn is a slight upgrade from Benson (offensively -- he should easily score more goals than Benson did last season), but much worse defensively. Hopefully, that is countered by his new linemates...

Norris should be a step up from Cozens in production and drastically improved defensively. 

Tuch = Tuch in a contract year, but probably a slight bit down in the actual goal-scoring department. 30-potential instead of pushing for 40.

 

Zucker = Zucker, but probably not quite as many goals as last year. Depends on PP time.

McLeod = due for regression, until Norris gets injured. Still, he's really solid and can play up the lineup and will be PK1.

Doan = Should be able to beat out, and be an upgrade to, Greenway because of his forechecking and possession metrics. With Zucker/McLeod he'd be a very good 3rd line contributor. Offensively, he's not as good as Quinn and slightly better than Greenway -- the two 3rd liners he'd be replacing. Overall, he's a push in terms of averaged out scoring production and also the average of the prior players' extremes defensively.

 

Malenstyn = Malenstyn = fine for a 4th line

Krebs = Krebs

Greenway is a massive upgrade than last year's version of Lafferty. Penalty killing, grinding in corners, and the occasional brawn. He provides more to the team than we give credit. That said... he's good for 40 games given his shoulder(s), so...

Danforth is also a massive upgrade over last year's version of Lafferty.

The fourth line is overpaid, but will be solid.

 

Overall, the forwards should be a bit better at a 200' game -- until Norris and Greenway are both injured. Then, it will open up opportunities to those who can take advantage, but it could also swiftly sink the season, especially if other teams are playing their starting goalies and not coasting to season's end already.

Finally, how has the PP strategy improved this offseason?

 

On paper, the Sabres should be 4-8 points better in the standings -- so still about 4-8 points short of the playoffs depending on the pace while teams tank for McKenna.

And I hope they have a Devils-like Ruff-led 112-point breakout season. That'd be excellent. Then they should still fire Adams into the nearest asteroid field.

Team is maybe break even, never mind 4 extra wins 

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

It’s past the point where one can deny they are a sucker for caring 

And that would be me.  My wife and brothers ask me all the time why I care about them.  It goes back to the AHL Bisons, 1966, the Aud, and a Pepsi with pop corn from the old fashion poppers.