The offseason so far - Are the Sabres better?

[Weave]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I'm curious how they staff the 1st PP this year?

Do they go status quo and just plug Kulich into JJ's slot? It's his natural role and he has a history of being very good there.

Another unwrapped option is Norris, who also has a history of being very good on the PP, but from the Thompson position.

I think one of the issues is the lack of a pure passer and/or playmaker other than Dahlin.

And with Ras kinda anchored at the top, who is breaking down the box with motion and misdirection? Who is sneaking down from the top? 

I've seen Byram and Power have success at doing the above and wouldn't mind their skills being better utilized on the PP.

Teams moved away from 2D on the PP basically to get their best offensive talent on the ice. I think you could make a very good case that Byram and Power are among our five most talented players.

Maybe they should explore using those skills.

What do they have to lose?

I’ll go so far as to call it incompetence if they don’t make a reasonable effort at using Dahlin and Byram together in the 1st unit.  Our strength right now is in elite skill on defense.  Feature it.  That doesn’t mean we have to have both up top.  One can certainly be stationed on the wall, and they both have the skillsets to make it work.

And that would mean one more decent forward for the #2 unit as well.

It would also mean Byram gets what he wants, and if the points come his value outside of the organization grows as well.

[Drag0nDan]

4 minutes ago, Weave said:

I’ll go so far as to call it incompetence if they don’t make a reasonable effort at using Dahlin and Byram together in the 1st unit.  Our strength right now is in elite skill on defense.  Feature it.  That doesn’t mean we have to have both up top.  One can certainly be stationed on the wall, and they both have the skillsets to make it work.

And that would mean one more decent forward for the #2 unit as well.

It would also mean Byram gets what he wants, and if the points come his value outside of the organization grows as well.

Opposite tage would probably make sense as they need a lefty there.  Byram and Dahlin are both pretty good shooters, and you can rotate them a bit easier.  Maybe use mcleod as a net front guy with tuch in the middle.  

Unit 2 would be power at the top - Norris in tages spot and kulich on the other, and two of zucker/quinn/benson/maybe doan if you're looking for more net front prescence.

[Taro T]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

I'm curious how they staff the 1st PP this year?

Do they go status quo and just plug Kulich into JJ's slot? It's his natural role and he has a history of being very good there.

Another unwrapped option is Norris, who also has a history of being very good on the PP, but from the Thompson position.

I think one of the issues is the lack of a pure passer and/or playmaker other than Dahlin.

And with Ras kinda anchored at the top, who is breaking down the box with motion and misdirection? Who is sneaking down from the top? 

I've seen Byram and Power have success at doing the above and wouldn't mind their skills being better utilized on the PP.

Teams moved away from 2D on the PP basically to get their best offensive talent on the ice. I think you could make a very good case that Byram and Power are among our five most talented players.

Maybe they should explore using those skills.

What do they have to lose?

 

3 hours ago, Weave said:

I’ll go so far as to call it incompetence if they don’t make a reasonable effort at using Dahlin and Byram together in the 1st unit.  Our strength right now is in elite skill on defense.  Feature it.  That doesn’t mean we have to have both up top.  One can certainly be stationed on the wall, and they both have the skillsets to make it work.

And that would mean one more decent forward for the #2 unit as well.

It would also mean Byram gets what he wants, and if the points come his value outside of the organization grows as well.

Yeah, if the idea is to have a 2nd playmaker on the ice for the top PP, Byram has to be on that unit.  So, Byram, Dahlin, and Thompson are locks.  Zucker isn't ideal down low, but he's the best the Sabres have so the question becomes Benson, Kulich, Norris, or Quinn as the 5th skater on the unit.  Counterintuitively, would give Quinn the 1st crack at it.  Would show they believe in him and give him an opportunity to make up for last year; PLUS if you don't use him on the 1st unit, you'll be using him on the 2nd unit which will only have Power on it from D.  How many mother f'n goals is that 2nd unit going to give up having Power and Quinn both on that unit?

Make the 2nd unit Power, Tuch, Benson, Kulich, and Norris.  Which SHOULD be a good unit with Benson on the bumper and Tuch down low.  Just like with the other unit a strong 1 timer could come from either side.

[mjd1001]

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

 

And with Ras kinda anchored at the top, who is breaking down the box with motion and misdirection? Who is sneaking down from the top? 

I've seen Byram and Power have success at doing the above and wouldn't mind their skills being better utilized on the PP.

Teams moved away from 2D on the PP basically to get their best offensive talent on the ice. I think you could make a very good case that Byram and Power are among our five most talented players.

Maybe they should explore using those skills.

What do they have to lose?

I have been wondering this for a long time now with mostly the Sabres but across the NHL.

Why not use both Dahlin and Byram on the first PP unit with 3 forwards? If they are regular defense partners, they sure would 'know' each others tendencies better than Dahlin with a random winger, and plus Byram could get his PP touches and points also.

Some of these D-men are really skilled with the puck (like Byram). This isn't the last 1980s were your defense had one guy (Housley) and a bunch of guys like Joe Reekie, Mike Ramsey, Uwe Krupp, Dean Kennedy, and Bob Halkidas....that I wouldn't want anywhere near a PP.

Edited 1 hour ago by mjd1001

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

I have been wondering this for a long time now with mostly the Sabres but across the NHL.

Why not use both Dahlin and Byram on the first PP unit with 3 forwards? If they are regular defense partners, they sure would 'know' each others tendencies better than Dahlin with a random winger, and plus Byram could get his PP touches and points also.

I called for it last summer.

Old school PP with Bo and Ras cycling in and out of the mid-point and sneaking down low, Tage and Kulich rotating behind them firing from distance, probably Bennie down low going to the net, retrieving pucks and making plays.

It will be different than what most PKs are used to.

[dudacek]

Then you can go with a more traditional PP2:

Power flanked by Norris and Quinn, with Tuch and Zucker in the bumper and down low.

[Weave]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Then you can go with a more traditional PP2:

Power flanked by Norris and Quinn, with Tuch and Zucker in the bumper and down low.

And Kesselring had PP time in Utah.  He’s an option for the big shot off the dot on the 2nd unit.

[Taro T]

It was a good call.  Didn't agree with it at the time, but back then wanted Thompson, Tuch, Peterka, and Quinn (yikes, horrible friggin' call) out there with Dahlin.  

Expecting if they run it, they'll run it with Byram taking the role of being the player opposite Thompson on the right half wall.

But wonder what would happen if they ran it more like a traditional old-school 3-2 PP with 1 major wrinkle.  Have BOTH the D, who are very good puck movers cheating in lower into the zone and effectively then having the bumper pushing down lower to the net as well.  It necessarily puts them tighter to the defenders working against them, but am fine with both Dahlin and Byram being able to keep the puck and pass it cleanly under pressure.

As everything is more compact; you are necessarily geting more traffic in front of the goalie and also reducing how long he has to react to the pass/shot combo.

It couldn't POSSIBLY be any worse relatively speaking than their drop pass through 2 zones as an entry.  AND it would have the advantage of being something other teams don't often see so they won't be as skilled at defending it.  If it turns out that they do lose the puck too often, they could always adjust it to the more in vogue diamond with a bumper.

[mjd1001]

And a minor thing that doesn't happen often but does happen...

When the team has a bad giveaway on the PP, it might help them defend the opposing team's SH break having an actual D-man back there than a forward who has little clue to to play a 2-on-1.

The Sabres did allow 8 or 9 shorthanded goals, and 50 shots against / 20 high danger shots against when the were on the PP last year.

 

[Taro T]

Just now, mjd1001 said:

And a minor thing that doesn't happen often but does happen...

When the team has a bad giveaway on the PP, it might help them defend the opposing team's SH break having an actual D-man back there than a forward who has little clue to to play a 2-on-1.

The Sabres did allow 8 or 9 shorthanded goals, and 50 shots against / 20 high danger shots against when the were on the PP last year.

 

Well, yes.  And that's why if Quinn is on either PP unit, he is on the one w/ 2 D rather than the one with only 1.  😉