Chad D: expect a Byram trade at or around the draft

[JohnC]

12 hours ago, Broken Ankles said:

Strenuously disagree?   

 

 

 

Great clip!

[Weave]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

They're fully able to match a $7-9M sheet and should be willing.

If a team is stupid enough to go higher, they should take the picks because Byram isn't worth 2 1sts, a 2nd and a 3rd, and those are assets they can flip for what he wants.

If Adams doesn't stand firm it's because he's weak or Terry won't spend.

Stubbornness, poor evaluation and hubris are three demonstrable Adams traits, but this is the guy who rode out the Eichel storm for months. I don't perceive him to be weak.

And I suspect ego will override EEE for Terry if someone drops an offer sheet.

Ok, you haven’t convinced me, but you’ve talked me off the edge.

I hate you.

[Rasmus_]

if they're holding cap for a match just sign him and move on.

[LGR4GM]

35 minutes ago, Rasmus_ said:

if they're holding cap for a match just sign him and move on.

What is hilarious about keeping Adams is that because the Sabres have kept Adams and are allowing him to drive this bus, he will not get the best trade for Byram. He can't accept futures even if they were good picks and prospects because Adams has to make the playoffs this year. He can't sign Byram because he stupidly gave Samuelsson too much money AND compounded his error by convincing himself he can't move off of Samuelsson or simply sign Byram. The solution is so blindingly obvious, sign Byram to a 4-5yr deal at 7.25 or whatever and then move on. Instead Adams is trying to force who? Calgary? St Louis? into a trade that they clearly aren't going to make and in the end it is just pushing Byram towards an offer sheet. 

Bo Byram: 246 career games, he had his point total go up again even though he got basically no pp time. He had 7g, 38pts this past season. He had 75 hits and 116 blocked shots. He was a -5.8xgf% and only -2.6relcf% 

Rasmus Andersson: 536 career games, he has had his totals drop every year since his 50pt peak. 49, 39, 31 this past year. Most hits is 63 and he had 36 last year. He is good at blocking shots with 196. -8.9xgf% last year. -6.4 relcf%

Why the ***** are we trading a younger, better defender for an older not as good defender? Byram has upside and Andersson wants to play in Vegas next year. Sign Byram and figure out the logjam of highly paid defenders some other day. Or trade him for a top 6 forward (which will cost the same on your cap) but we can't do that. Adams decided he was moving on from Bo and that's that. Adams is a narrow minded, one track sort of thinker and it is so painfully obvious he lacks the abilities needed to be a successful NHL gm. 

[The Jokeman]

5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

What is hilarious about keeping Adams is that because the Sabres have kept Adams and are allowing him to drive this bus, he will not get the best trade for Byram. He can't accept futures even if they were good picks and prospects because Adams has to make the playoffs this year. He can't sign Byram because he stupidly gave Samuelsson too much money AND compounded his error by convincing himself he can't move off of Samuelsson or simply sign Byram. The solution is so blindingly obvious, sign Byram to a 4-5yr deal at 7.25 or whatever and then move on. Instead Adams is trying to force who? Calgary? St Louis? into a trade that they clearly aren't going to make and in the end it is just pushing Byram towards an offer sheet. 

Bo Byram: 246 career games, he had his point total go up again even though he got basically no pp time. He had 7g, 38pts this past season. He had 75 hits and 116 blocked shots. He was a -5.8xgf% and only -2.6relcf% 

Rasmus Andersson: 536 career games, he has had his totals drop every year since his 50pt peak. 49, 39, 31 this past year. Most hits is 63 and he had 36 last year. He is good at blocking shots with 196. -8.9xgf% last year. -6.4 relcf%

Why the ***** are we trading a younger, better defender for an older not as good defender? Byram has upside and Andersson wants to play in Vegas next year. Sign Byram and figure out the logjam of highly paid defenders some other day. Or trade him for a top 6 forward (which will cost the same on your cap) but we can't do that. Adams decided he was moving on from Bo and that's that. Adams is a narrow minded, one track sort of thinker and it is so painfully obvious he lacks the abilities needed to be a successful NHL gm. 

You would think he could move Samuelsson to San Jose for anything just to clear the cap space. I like Bo and the only reason I'd move him is because of cap concerns and personally feel we need more help at forward now based on the current state of the roster and again emphasis on Center as to me it's a blaring hole. 

[thewookie1]

3 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

You would think he could move Samuelsson to San Jose for anything just to clear the cap space. I like Bo and the only reason I'd move him is because of cap concerns and personally feel we need more help at forward now based on the current state of the roster and again emphasis on Center as to me it's a blaring hole. 

He won't regardless of if he could. 

[The Jokeman]

1 minute ago, thewookie1 said:

He won't regardless of if he could. 

and my question is why? I mean eat crow and move on from the albatross. 

[thewookie1]

4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

and my question is why? I mean eat crow and move on from the albatross. 

Because they don't see him the same way we do.

[dudacek]

43 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

Because they don't see him the same way we do.

This pretty much sums up Kevyn Adams and the entire team don't it?

Sure he moved Cozens, but he's only moving Peterka and Byram because he thinks he has to and he still is refusing to buy significant outside help.

It always comes down to 'the answers are in this room.'

[PromoTheRobot]

24 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This pretty much sums up Kevyn Adams and the entire team don't it?

Sure he moved Cozens, but he's only moving Peterka and Byram because he thinks he has to and he still is refusing to buy significant outside help.

It always comes down to 'the answers are in this room.'

That's an assumption, and a fairly large one. You don't know what players are being offered. (Other than Marco Rossi and Adams saw more value in a Kesselring.)

[K-9]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

What is hilarious about keeping Adams is that because the Sabres have kept Adams and are allowing him to drive this bus, he will not get the best trade for Byram. He can't accept futures even if they were good picks and prospects because Adams has to make the playoffs this year. He can't sign Byram because he stupidly gave Samuelsson too much money AND compounded his error by convincing himself he can't move off of Samuelsson or simply sign Byram. The solution is so blindingly obvious, sign Byram to a 4-5yr deal at 7.25 or whatever and then move on. Instead Adams is trying to force who? Calgary? St Louis? into a trade that they clearly aren't going to make and in the end it is just pushing Byram towards an offer sheet. 

Bo Byram: 246 career games, he had his point total go up again even though he got basically no pp time. He had 7g, 38pts this past season. He had 75 hits and 116 blocked shots. He was a -5.8xgf% and only -2.6relcf% 

Rasmus Andersson: 536 career games, he has had his totals drop every year since his 50pt peak. 49, 39, 31 this past year. Most hits is 63 and he had 36 last year. He is good at blocking shots with 196. -8.9xgf% last year. -6.4 relcf%

Why the ***** are we trading a younger, better defender for an older not as good defender? Byram has upside and Andersson wants to play in Vegas next year. Sign Byram and figure out the logjam of highly paid defenders some other day. Or trade him for a top 6 forward (which will cost the same on your cap) but we can't do that. Adams decided he was moving on from Bo and that's that. Adams is a narrow minded, one track sort of thinker and it is so painfully obvious he lacks the abilities needed to be a successful NHL gm. 

Thanks to you, @dudacek and a few others, I've changed my thinking on Byram. I think this team has so pissed me off that I let his boneheaded plays cloud my objectivity and obscure the promise of his potential. He is still ascending and unless clueless Kevyn can get a king's ransom in return, let's just sign him and move on. 

But I wonder if he even wants to at this point. 

[dudacek]

21 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

That's an assumption, and a fairly large one. You don't know what players are being offered. (Other than Marco Rossi and Adams saw more value in a Kesselring.)

It's not an assumption at all, it's a resume.

I can think of one deal in 5 years where Adams was the "buyer", as defined by him throwing multiple assets at a GM or buckets of money at an agent to acquire a "better", upper echelon player: the Josh Norris deal.

He's made hockey trades (Mitts for Byram), shopped around for working class parts (Greenway, Clifton, Zucker) or sold bigger pieces for mutliple smaller (Eichel, Peterka)

Edited 9 hours ago by dudacek

[Flashsabre]

 

[LGR4GM]

27 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It's not an assumption at all, it's a resume.

I can think of one deal in 5 years where Adams was the "buyer", as defined by him throwing multiple assets at a GM or buckets of money at an agent to acquire a "better", upper echelon player: the Josh Norris deal.

He's made hockey trades (Mitts for Byram), shopped around for working class parts (Greenway, Clifton, Zucker) or sold bigger pieces for mutliple smaller (Eichel, Peterka)

I would argue 2 deals. McLeod but your point stands. I suppose if you put McLeod in that working class parts bucket it doesnt apply.

[Rasmus_]

Just sign Byram to a bridge contract and trade futures for Rust and call it a day.

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

That's an assumption, and a fairly large one. You don't know what players are being offered. (Other than Marco Rossi and Adams saw more value in a Kesselring.)

The primary value that Adams saw in Kesselring over Rossi can be summed up as:

• Kesselring is making $1.4M this year and is a RFA next year
• Kulich is locked in as a top 6 C for two more years at $887k
• Rossi wants $7M this summer

Kesselring has potential. However, thus far, Kesselring has been a 5/6D forced into 4D minutes last year because of injuries. Rossi, since recovering from myocarditis as a result of COVID, has been on a steady ascent to the Wild 1C or 2C, depending on the day... until they ran into a superior Vegas team in the playoffs and the coach demoted him to the fourth line for being too small and facing the likes of Eichel, Hertl, Karlsson, and Nic Roy shift after shift.

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

It's not an assumption at all, it's a resume.

I can think of one deal in 5 years where Adams was the "buyer", as defined by him throwing multiple assets at a GM or buckets of money at an agent to acquire a "better", upper echelon player: the Josh Norris deal.

He's made hockey trades (Mitts for Byram), shopped around for working class parts (Greenway, Clifton, Zucker) or sold bigger pieces for mutliple smaller (Eichel, Peterka)

But you aren't on the phone now. So you don't know what's being offered. He may be getting offered 3rd line players. Do you want more of those? I doubt it. 

Edited 8 hours ago by PromoTheRobot

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

But you aren't on the phone now. So you don't know what's being offered. He may be getting offered 3rd line players. Do you want more of those? I doubt it. 

If this were true he would sign Byram and move on. Or he's incapable of pivoting. 

[PromoTheRobot]

4 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

The primary value that Adams saw in Kesselring over Rossi can be summed up as:

• Kesselring is making $1.4M this year and is a RFA next year
• Kulich is locked in as a top 6 C for two more years at $887k
• Rossi wants $7M this summer

Kesselring has potential. However, thus far, Kesselring has been a 5/6D forced into 4D minutes last year because of injuries. Rossi, since recovering from myocarditis as a result of COVID, has been on a steady ascent to the Wild 1C or 2C, depending on the day... until they ran into a superior Vegas team in the playoffs and the coach demoted him to the fourth line for being too small and facing the likes of Eichel, Hertl, Karlsson, and Nic Roy shift after shift.

Maybe you missed when Adams said the Sabres needed to get into a position to not be caught by an offer sheet. So yes, they were shedding salary, but it was for a good reason. I'm sure you would have lost your s**t if they traded for Rossi but lost Byram to an offer sheet (and not a very big one.) 

As for Kesselring, he was also a big need for the team, so there's that.

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

If this were true he would sign Byram and move on. Or he's incapable of pivoting. 

Why does everything have to happen immediately? Does the season start next week?

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Maybe you missed when Adams said the Sabres needed to get into a position to not be caught by an offer sheet. So yes, they were shedding salary, but it was for a good reason. I'm sure you would have lost your s**t if they traded for Rossi but lost Byram to an offer sheet (and not a very big one.) 

As for Kesselring, he was also a big need for the team, so there's that.

Unless they either sign Byram to the saved space or trade him for a player that takes that space, what adams said is nonsense. 

[sabremike]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

What is hilarious about keeping Adams is that because the Sabres have kept Adams and are allowing him to drive this bus, he will not get the best trade for Byram. He can't accept futures even if they were good picks and prospects because Adams has to make the playoffs this year. He can't sign Byram because he stupidly gave Samuelsson too much money AND compounded his error by convincing himself he can't move off of Samuelsson or simply sign Byram. The solution is so blindingly obvious, sign Byram to a 4-5yr deal at 7.25 or whatever and then move on. Instead Adams is trying to force who? Calgary? St Louis? into a trade that they clearly aren't going to make and in the end it is just pushing Byram towards an offer sheet. 

Bo Byram: 246 career games, he had his point total go up again even though he got basically no pp time. He had 7g, 38pts this past season. He had 75 hits and 116 blocked shots. He was a -5.8xgf% and only -2.6relcf% 

Rasmus Andersson: 536 career games, he has had his totals drop every year since his 50pt peak. 49, 39, 31 this past year. Most hits is 63 and he had 36 last year. He is good at blocking shots with 196. -8.9xgf% last year. -6.4 relcf%

Why the ***** are we trading a younger, better defender for an older not as good defender? Byram has upside and Andersson wants to play in Vegas next year. Sign Byram and figure out the logjam of highly paid defenders some other day. Or trade him for a top 6 forward (which will cost the same on your cap) but we can't do that. Adams decided he was moving on from Bo and that's that. Adams is a narrow minded, one track sort of thinker and it is so painfully obvious he lacks the abilities needed to be a successful NHL gm. 

Adams had roughly the same qualifications to be an NHL GM as the guy with the hot dog cart outside of the arena. Only a ridiculous fool like Terry didn't see this coming.

[Taro T]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

Maybe you missed when Adams said the Sabres needed to get into a position to not be caught by an offer sheet. So yes, they were shedding salary, but it was for a good reason. I'm sure you would have lost your s**t if they traded for Rossi but lost Byram to an offer sheet (and not a very big one.) 

As for Kesselring, he was also a big need for the team, so there's that.

IF an offer sheet comes that puts the Sabres over the cap this summer, or if Adams gets an offer on a top 6 F that he simply can't refuse that puts the Sabres over the cap this summer, he has until right before the season starts to get the team cap compliant.  Trading away Samuelsson, in almost any case would get the Sabres cap compliant.  He wouldn't be immediately handcuffed.

[PromoTheRobot]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Unless they either sign Byram to the saved space or trade him for a player that takes that space, what adams said is nonsense. 

Nonsense, unless Byram was lost. Then your on Adams for not planning. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

IF an offer sheet comes that puts the Sabres over the cap this summer, or if Adams gets an offer on a top 6 F that he simply can't refuse that puts the Sabres over the cap this summer, he has until right before the season starts to get the team cap compliant.  Trading away Samuelsson, in almost any case would get the Sabres cap compliant.  He wouldn't be immediately handcuffed.

That's true but he's also negotiating with Tuch for an extension. He has much more flexibility this way.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Nonsense, unless Byram was lost. Then your on Adams for not planning. 

How about I word it this way. I don't believe Kevyn Adams when he says they dumped salary to prepare for a Byram offer sheet. I think that was in their minds, sure, but they dumped salary to dump salary until proven otherwise.