Sabres looking for Senior Advisor for Adams and Hockey Department

[dudacek]

42 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Adams has us on the Levi timeline 

Levi 

 

Adams had us on the Tage/Tuch/Cozens/Quinn/Peterka/Krebs/Dahlin/Power/Samuelsson/Luukkonen timeline which he expected to start last year and this year.

It was supposed to be augmented by Levi and all those picks from 21-23 to keep us contending over the next decade.

He's went maybe 4 for 10 on his first wave and hasn't shown much yet on the second.

He misjudged or mis-developed the talent and is now scrambling to re-set.

Edited 5 hours ago by dudacek

[Thorny]

Nah he had us on the Levi timeline 

you are just listing out the components of the roster. Like ya man I know. I don’t need to hear about how the “plan” was to “supplement the roster with picks”

ya man my plan is to supplement my material intake with pooping 

DUDE. it’s year 6. Everyone understands the elementary level mechanics always in operation on all teams 

- - -

we were on the levi timeline 

Levi isn’t an NHLer and he was LINED UP TO START 3 season ago. Think about this. 

we were sold Levi.

Most bought Levi

don’t feel so seen just because you purchased so much of the stock 

it was an asinine plan by Adams 

Edited 4 hours ago by Thorny

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Nah he had us on the Levi timeline 

you are just listing out the components of the roster. Like ya man I know. I don’t need to hear about how the “plan” was to “supplement the roster with picks”

ya man my plan is to supplement my material intake with pooping 

DUDE. it’s year 6. Everyone understands the elementary level mechanics always in operation on all teams 

- - -

we were on the levi timeline 

Levi isn’t an NHLer and he was LINED UP TO START 3 season ago. Think about this. 

we were sold Levi.

Most bought Levi

don’t feel so seen just because you purchased so much of the stock 

it was an asinine plan by Adams 

No, he was on the Dahlin timeline.  That he hasn't come close to elevating the team now that Dahlin's time is NOW doesn't change that.

And, yes, mistakes he made are what pushed the team's timeline out beyond Dahlin's.

And, yes, he really should have been relieved of his GM duties as soon as the last player was done autographing "the shirt off his back."

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

No, he was on the Dahlin timeline.  That he hasn't come close to elevating the team now that Dahlin's time is NOW doesn't change that.

And, yes, mistakes he made are what pushed the team's timeline out beyond Dahlin's.

And, yes, he really should have been relieved of his GM duties as soon as the last player was done autographing "the shirt off his back."

No, he SHOULD have been on the Dahlin timeline - that was the no brainer 

that he hasn’t properly addressed the team during this 5 years proves he didn’t believe himself to be 

A huge portion of his “mistakes” is lack of action 

The lack of prioritizing winning. The lack of a timeline that includes winning in the now 

we still doing this 

?

[Flashsabre]

I have Zero percent faith that this organization as constructed head to toe will find any success moving forward. Why Pegula has trust in this group is beyond me.  They desperately need an outside, seasoned voices in positions of power.

Edited 4 hours ago by Flashsabre

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

No, he SHOULD have been on the Dahlin timeline - that was the no brainer 

that he hasn’t properly addressed the team during this 5 years proves he didn’t believe himself to be 

A huge portion of his “mistakes” is lack of action 

The lack of prioritizing winning. The lack of a timeline that includes winning in the now 

we still doing this 

?

No, his being BAD at his job doesn't change that the timeline WAS Dahlin.

He fully bought into the 91 point team taking a step forward.  He thought they were better than they were.  But that IS the Dahlin timeline.

Playoffs was a goal in '23-'24.  He flat out NEVER would say that publicly prior to that.  It was always building a team in house that would eventually continuously / annually be a contender for the SC.

And personally, REALLY wanted to believe it was possible.  And, in hindsight, ignored huge warning signs that summer like wasting the preseson on figuring what callup would be the replacement on the top line should injuries strike rather than heading into October desperate to get wins before everybody else settled in to what they were.  Or not doing anything at all to replace Quinn's anticipated production when they knew he wouldn't be available for a couple of months.

[LGR4GM]

Kevyn Adams is an unimaginative loser who espouses a losing excuse filled narrative to explain his incompetence and complacency. 

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

No, his being BAD at his job doesn't change that the timeline WAS Dahlin.

He fully bought into the 91 point team taking a step forward.  He thought they were better than they were.  But that IS the Dahlin timeline.

Playoffs was a goal in '23-'24.  He flat out NEVER would say that publicly prior to that.  It was always building a team in house that would eventually continuously / annually be a contender for the SC.

And personally, REALLY wanted to believe it was possible.  And, in hindsight, ignored huge warning signs that summer like wasting the preseson on figuring what callup would be the replacement on the top line should injuries strike rather than heading into October desperate to get wins before everybody else settled in to what they were.  Or not doing anything at all to replace Quinn's anticipated production when they knew he wouldn't be available for a couple of months.

Does not matter. It needed to be THE goal. And if you enter into a season as the youngest team in hockey with a bottom 10 pay roll, it cannot be, in good faith, your priority 

You can call it “missed warning signs” all you want but not everyone missed them 

I did not miss them 

I don’t need to change my opinion now because I was right for 5 years: they haven’t prioritized winning in the now since they shipped out Finkle and Einhorn 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Kevyn Adams is an unimaginative loser who espouses a losing excuse filled narrative to explain his incompetence and complacency. 

And that’s not hindsight

[Thorny]

“Believing you can make the playoffs” is NOT the same as making it your priority and this is a distinction I will gladly, continually hammer home.

It’s the crucial distinction.

I do not care if Adam’s believed the 91 point team would probably make the playoffs the next season. Probably doesn’t scratch the surface of good enough when a THIRTEEN (13) year drought is on the line

we, as a fan base, deserve so, so much more than that. Probably isn’t good enough. You folks deserve better you truly do. The team HAD to make the playoffs that year. Let alone this year.

it wasn’t THE priority. It’s just what Adams thought would likely happen. As the natural symptom of the unfolding of his long term plan.* Like to win / hate to lose? It wasn’t about NEEDING to make the playoffs. Not at all. We deserved NOTHING less. 

the FOCUS should have been on playoffs, in 2024, being *the* priority. It was not. And it was not this year either. “Actions speak louder than words” for a reason. Budget spending. Youngest teams.

NO FIRINGS. 

How can one possibly argue there was any form of expectations if no one is accountable to anything?

Edited 3 hours ago by Thorny

[Flashsabre]

My only hope at this point is they are waiting to bring Dudley in and he is going to be bad cop and 💩can everyone. Ofcourse none of that is happening but it’s the only hope I have left.

[Thorny]

*So, in the end, a drastic failure of both execution and concept. The proof is in the macro statistical pudding. The 78 point average for 5 seasons, that sort of *drastic* failure (we haven’t just missed we’ve generally missed badly) is the natural result of poor planning AND poor execution. 

like I always say with the tank, they made their own degree of difficulty for the actual rebuild after the fact way harder by enacting that strategy.

Adams refusal to prioritize the now, the “floor”, the unwillingness to put the team in a place reflective of a GM who feels his team MUST make the playoffs, a team with, perhaps, a little standings points breathing ground rather than always being in “if eveything goes right mode”, leads to rosters against the 8 ball with question marks from day 1 that look really bad when they DO fail. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

Maybe he can hire Rod the Bod if he gets fired😁. (Which I don’t think he will be)

I was laughing today seeing disgruntled Philly fans (they hate everything) suggesting they'd feel like they got the dud ex Flyer when Brind'Amour gets fired. 

Maybe this is what Boston's waiting for. 🙂

 

[dudacek]

I didn’t see Adam’s give Levi a 5-year $25M contract

He absolutely overrated Levi, but it was symptom, not cause. It certainly wasn’t the only swing and miss and it’s not the only reason he’s failed to build a playoff team.

He banked a numerous youngsters to get good. Most of them haven’t.

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

“Believing you can make the playoffs” is NOT the same as making it your priority and this is a distinction I will gladly, continually hammer home.

It’s the crucial distinction.

I do not care if Adam’s believed the 91 point team would probably make the playoffs the next season. Probably doesn’t scratch the surface of good enough when a THIRTEEN (13) year drought is on the line

we, as a fan base, deserve so, so much more than that. Probably isn’t good enough. You folks deserve better you truly do. The team HAD to make the playoffs that year. Let alone this year.

it wasn’t THE priority. It’s just what Adams thought would likely happen. As the natural symptom of the unfolding of his long term plan.* Like to win / hate to lose? It wasn’t about NEEDING to make the playoffs. Not at all. We deserved NOTHING less. 

the FOCUS should have been on playoffs, in 2024, being *the* priority. It was not. And it was not this year either. “Actions speak louder than words” for a reason. Budget spending. Youngest teams.

NO FIRINGS. 

How can one possibly argue there was any form of expectations if no one is accountable to anything?

Again, no, he didn't say the goal was to "probably" make the playoffs.  It was the complementary goal to the the goal of perennially contending for the Stanley Cup and it was making the playoffs.  Meaning, he wasn't going to sell off large chunks of the future to make playoffs happen.  You can say then playoffs wasn't a goal, it was merely something he hoped would happen; but personally don't believe that was the case.  (Sorry, kind of skimmed over the paragraph where you essentially agreed with that.)

And again, believe his and Granato's hubris about that 91 point season is what doomed the next one.  And that's how he managed to sell to management to punt Granato without anyone else going.  Personally, still not understanding how Adams didn't take a fall THIS off-season.  But there was A firing after the expectation of playoffs was not met.  (Agree 100% there should've been more and am as frustrated as any (maybe even moreso than most) that there has been NO accountability THIS off-season; but you can't say there were no firings when the HC was in fact relieved of his duties when they missed the playoffs when the playoffs were the ST goal.)

And, yes, the focus SHOULD have been on the playoffs more so than it was.  The issue, and the one we ALL get to suffer for is, am 95+% certain that Adams sold Pegula on he (Terry) and Regier having been on the right track when they went for the tank but that Murray's rushing the rebuild is what caused the suffering to remain on a continual loop.  And the Kevyn plan included (quite wrongheadedly, as they refused to weaponize ANY of their capspace the past 4 years) keeping cap for the home grown talent that would earn raises pushing them organically to a cap team and only trading away youth for players that would still be fitting into the long term vision of what the team is/ was becoming.  So, though the ST goal WAS the playoffs, Adams little plan had set up constraints that didn't allow for veering from the plan even when a modification to the plan was warranted.  The ST goal was secondary to the LT goal.  Now, personally don't know if the playoffs were a Pegula goal.  Am suspicious that it isn't nearly as high on his priority list as it was/is for Adams.  Expect he still believes in that vision that Adams sold him after tagging along on the out of town trip back in the '19-'20 season which is likely the biggest reason that Adams still has a job after 5 failed kicks at the can.

And heading into that off-season personally wanted to see a lot of things happen, pretty much none of which did, which would've made it extremely likely they'd've needed a lot to go wrong to not make the dance rather than staying where they ended up with needing a LOT to go right to make it.  And with Quinn breaking in the off-season, they already knew at least 1 of the things they'd banked on to go right wouldn't.

And, neither here nor there, knew the Sabres had made the wrong call in choosing Botterill over Zito back when a successor for Murray was needed.  Hadn't realized Zito didn't take the Swamp Cats job until about 5 months after Adams had been hired to replace JBots.  The Sabres actually had another opportunity to make the right decision and didn't make it then either.

This off-season is soooo truly beyond frustrating.

[Thorny]

Yes, if it’s a complementary goal it’s not THE goal and that is what I am saying was necessary. You aren’t disagreeing with me you are just starting your posts with “no” for some reason 

 My point is precisely that the future goals should be subservient to the goal of right now as until we build the now no future exists a’tall

[Thorny]

Re: Levi 

there was certainly a level of belief at the time that may have suggested his that while his roster positioning was reflective of being a symptom, the approach to the rest of the roster illustrated how much Cause was in play, too 

If we were willing to count on him to be a starter, that soon, that unproven, i shudder to think of what may have been expected of him when he was hitting his stride 

If anyone doubts how much belief there was in him being a very real potential answer in the now, you are probably misremembing the time of hype 

Edited 2 hours ago by Thorny

[DarthEbriate]

The current stated goal of ownership is Efficient, Effective, and Economical. There’s been no public messaging from the owner since 2020 regarding the team. Until the owner says otherwise, the goal still isn’t to win, it’s just to maintain lifestyle and yacht in this tricky Covid economy. 

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

Kevyn Adams is an unimaginative loser who espouses a losing excuse filled narrative to explain his incompetence and complacency. 

As of right now the members of the front office you really do not want making decisions have taken the lead on a potential Byram trade 

[SwampD]

Good lord, the dissecting of and arguing over the cause of the suck makes me want to commit seppuku. 

***** this team. ***** Adams, and ***** Pegula.

Do something.