apuszczalowski Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: I disagree. Buffalo has a talent problem as well as a heart problem. They should really get that looked at soon, after whats happened to Kim & Damar, you would think they would be on top of these kind of things....... j/k As for Ruff, atleast they went back to someone with a successful track record for them, they could have always decided to go back to Botterill (Hey he has a cup win!) or even Kreuger (to help motivate the young team!). Atleast Ruff has still been in the league coaching since leaving here and has had some success making the playoffs (baby steps for the Sabres). I wouldn't start planning the Cup parade just because of this hire, but I'm a little more confident with this hire that they might be a playoff team next year. Of course this isn't the big hire like Brindamour (who is still coaching a playoff team and doubtful he isn't retained, or some of the other names like Gallant or Boudreau who haven't been coaching since being let go. i think what makes this look worse is that it was done quickly after saying they would leave no stone unturned. It makes this look like they made a couple calls, but had this decision made a while ago unless he turned them down 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 9 minutes ago, dudacek said: I think it’s kinda interesting that career winning percentage is being used as a mark against Lindy. Here are 10 of his peers: Darryl Sutter .498 Pat Burns .492 Pat Quinn .489 Jacques Lemaire .489 Lindy Ruff .487 Al Arbour .487 Mike Keenan .485 John Torterella .480 Dick Irvin .477 Paul Maurice .470 And for fun: Punch Imlach .452 The winning percentage of the modern guys, Lindy included, gets inflated a bit by shoot outs and the newer OT rules. But anyway, I’m assuming these count tie as a half, but do you know if that’s the case? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 1 minute ago, bunomatic said: Like I said Ruff is a retread and wasn’t my choice but it could be so much worse. It could be meatballs or Ellis or Appert etc etc. Ruff brings legitimacy to the position in Buffalo that we haven’t had in a long time. Damn , we hired Krueger. Atleast Terry can save some money with this hire, they might still have his name plate for his office hanging around, and HR doesn't need to waste as much time with the paper work or showing him around. He already knows where the office is and the bathrooms.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 Precedent for this sort of thing working out? Legendary coaches returning to the roost and winning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 2 minutes ago, shrader said: The winning percentage of the modern guys, Lindy included, gets inflated a bit by shoot outs and the newer OT rules. But anyway, I’m assuming these count tie as a half, but do you know if that’s the case? Ties count as zero. This is wins as a percentage of games coached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 Just now, dudacek said: Ties count as zero. This is wins as a percentage of games coached. Ok, so then I have zero use for this metric. Arbour and Ruff are tied, but a 2-2 final score can wind up as a positive outcome for one but not the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: Precedent for this sort of thing working out? Legendary coaches returning to the roost and winning. Nothing comes to mind for me. I don’t know that many ever get rehired, let alone find glory in their return. https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1043798 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cascade Youth Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 (edited) 9 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: Precedent for this sort of thing working out? Legendary coaches returning to the roost and winning. Mr. Miyagi? Edited April 23 by Cascade Youth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 26 minutes ago, JohnC said: But what I can say is that this so-called "coaching search" process was amateurish and third-rate. We have no idea what the process was. If the plan all along was to replace Donny at the end of the season, Kevyn could have conceivably been in talks/interviews with several candidates but because Donny was still employed they maintained confidentiality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 (edited) 9 minutes ago, shrader said: Ok, so then I have zero use for this metric. Arbour and Ruff are tied, but a 2-2 final score can wind up as a positive outcome for one but not the other. Arbour has zero loser points, Lindy 153. Doesn’t show how many OT wins he had. I agree that career winning percentage isn’t great proof of a coach’s ability. And I agree with your point, even if it wasn’t the one I was trying to make. Mine was that it’s kinda like ranking goalies based on the same stat. Too many underlying variables. Edited April 23 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 53 minutes ago, _Q_ said: It is entirely possible that following the lack of leadership when the players protested the fans, the decision on Granato was made. That leaves a couple month vetting process for potential candidates, both employed and unemployed. To say that a legitimate process can only happen after a firing is folly. Most companies have a succession plan in place before letting its CEO go, either internal or external. If we were to take Ruff's name off the hire, people would be talking about how he just took a young team in NJ to 110+ points and was let go after crappy goal tending (still a winning record), and how the Devils fell apart after he left. You give the Pegula run Sabres way too much credit. This hire is another Pegula pivot and jump. It is just as much about selling tickets than about winning games. I mean, I really hope that the Sabres did start looking at and talking too coaches during the regular season. The issue with the players and the fans would be reason enough for me. I sure hope that they talked to Berube and Gallant and found out if they were interested and a good match. I would not be surprised if they was not interested in working for Terry and Adams. The Sabres having a succession plan in place for replacing Granato is the folly. They just extended him the last off season. They extended him for almost making the playoffs, like teams would be beating down his door after this season. The Pegula's also gave Boterill a public vote of confidence and then fired him just weeks later. They asked Adams to gut the front office and lean everything down and start another rebuild while publicly stating the Sabres cannot adversely impact the "family lifestyle". Adams was on nobody's radar as a viable NHL GM at that time. I like Lindy, and wish him well, but if didn't have strong Buffalo connections he would not be coaching here again either. Something tells me the other vet coaches are not interested. If Lindy succeeds it is because he is a good coach, and he is extremely dedicated to the fading honorable past of this hockey club. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_soisson Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 Wow! 22 page thread for one topic. Haven't seen that here in a while. Portends great days to come for the team and supporters, I hope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 53 minutes ago, Skibum said: I guess if you look at it objectively (ie, imagine his previous Sabres stint was with some other team), it looks a lot like any other retread coaching hire. Not that I think Lindy is a bad coach, its just a boring hire the way hiring Laviolette, Hitchcock, Babcock, etc. would be. I didn't realize Ruff was so high on the career coaching wins list. But still no cups, and I don't see him bringing one to Buffalo at this stage of his career, nor with this particular team. I think the fact that Lindy was here previously brings certain considerations. For Kevyn and TPegs there are several positives. But I also saw negatives, particularly that it is a nostalgic hire which makes me wonder if it's the right hire. And if he struggles out of the gate it will get really ugly; does the nostalgia factor affect the timing of his firing, should it become necessary (i.e., stubbornly hold on longer than they should)? I think of these things. I'm sure Kevyn did too. Without talking to him personally, it just seems like he and I disagree on the preference for Lindy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 9 hours ago, Thorny said: By looking no further than the actual results. It’ll be really fun praising Adams if and when those results arrive. If he’s doing it the right way, those things will simply materialize - so you don’t have anything to worry about, he’d get his due. Until then, “I’m not sure how anyone” is obtuse at best Are you judging the GM on the talent we have in the system or on the wins we have? He's only responsible for one of those things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 16 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: Precedent for this sort of thing working out? Legendary coaches returning to the roost and winning. Here are the two term with same team coaches. https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1043798 It has happened five times, and now will be 6 with Lindy's return. None won a Cup the second time or even reached similar past heights. Punch Imlach and Jacques Lemaire are the only Cup winners that went back to their Cup teams. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 23 Author Report Share Posted April 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 It’s a 2 year deal for Ruff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted April 23 Author Report Share Posted April 23 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 24 minutes ago, Pimlach said: Here are the two term with same team coaches. https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1043798 It has happened five times, and now will be 6 with Lindy's return. None won a Cup the second time or even reached similar past heights. Punch Imlach and Jacques Lemaire are the only Cup winners that went back to their Cup teams. There's far more than those 5 Claude Julien with Montreal Darryl Sutter in Calgary Scotty Bowman and Ted Nolan here in Buffalo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 I think Lindy’s head coaching record is a great indicator of how much a coach’s success is tied to his players. He started in Buffalo with an improving team and a superstar goalie and enjoyed a string of contention that ended when the superstar left. He then had a few mediocre seasons as the GM slowly reset the roster, great success when the roster reset was complete and a slow decline as the talent drained away again. He took an average Dallas roster that had missed the playoffs 5 years in a row to 91 and 92 point seasons, followed by a sudden spike to 109 and a collapse to 79. They put up 92 and 93 points the 2 year after he left. And then he took over a New Jersey team that had missed the playoffs 8 of the past 9 years, floundered for 2 years as they reset the roster with youth, led that young team to one of the biggest improvements in league history the following year, then regressed this year after losing half of his veteran defence core and getting some of the worst goaltending in the league, while his star centre was wracked with injuries. Like most coaches, he’ll be as good as the players he’s given. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 1 hour ago, shrader said: The winning percentage of the modern guys, Lindy included, gets inflated a bit by shoot outs and the newer OT rules. But anyway, I’m assuming these count tie as a half, but do you know if that’s the case? I would assume W% is just straight win/loss otherwise it just becomes a weird variation of P% For reference here is the P% of the same guys plus a few some wanted: Craig Berube .584 Gerard Gallant .576 Pat Burns .573 Darryl Sutter .570 Al Arbour .564 Jacques Lemaire .563 Dick Irvin .557 Pat Quinn .556 Lindy Ruff .552 Mike Keenan .551 John Tortorella .542 Paul Maurice ..536 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: That is an exceptional Tweet in relation to what the team did this year. As @Thorny has been pointing out, Sabres PR has become pretty sharp. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustOneParade Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 Here's my simple take on things, FWIW. Lindy would have gotten this year's team into the playoffs, but no further than the first round. The roster needs work to get beyond that point going forward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoPuckYourself Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: So this is exactly what the talking heads on the radio were talking about. Ruff was basically hired on to toughen this group up and Seth Appert will take over after the 2 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted April 23 Report Share Posted April 23 1 minute ago, GoPuckYourself said: So this is exactly what the talking heads on the radio were talking about. Ruff was basically hired on to toughen this group up and Seth Appert will take over after the 2 years. That would be gross. The players can't know their head coach has one foot in retirement and his replacement is standing next to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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