The Jeff Skinner decision

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, Drag0nDan said:

I'm for buying him out.  No spreadsheets needed really. I'm not listing anyone as "untouchable" but... to just keep bringing back people and not shaking up the roster is a little wild to me when the team never wins anything.  It makes signing a FA wing/center challenging since the top 6 has tuch, skinner, jjp, quinn, cozens, thompson- with benson also right in the mix.  

Players I'd like to move on from - Krebs, Girgs, VO, Skinner, Robinson, Jokiharju, Clifton.  Honestly I'm open to Tuch too.  His contract is cheap and that has value to a team trying to maybe shed salary.  

As for filling in those spots?  I don't think you can just plug in prospects and expect to improve.  Maybe 1 or 2?  But somethings gotta give here.  You need to find NHL talent, and you need to use a deep prospect pool to get it.  You have too many puck moving lefties (dahlin, power, byram) - so move johnson somehow.  You have too many forwards at the same ages - you need to move some to try and add talent into the top-6.  There's not enough room on a roster for kulich, rosen, Östlund, wahlberg, savoie, whomever else you want to throw in there. 

Top 6 needs a shake-up badly, and the bottom 6 probably feels like a better home for someone like cozens until he can prove otherwise.  They also need... considerably more toughness.  And not people to hit and fight, but a coaching staff that makes these guys fight through checks, skate back on defense, backcheck effectively, etc.  Not to mention... playing faster.  This team is fast, but they play slow.  

If you buy Skinner out now (2024), the cap ramifications are the following:

2024-25 $1,444,445

2025-26 $4,444,445

2026-27 $6,444,445

2027-28 $2,444,445

2028-29  $2,444,445

2029-30  $2,444,445

If you buyout Skinner in 2025:

2025-26 $4,000,000

2026-27 $6,000,000

2027-28 $2,000,000

2028-29 2,000,000

[#freejame]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

If you buy Skinner out now (2024), the cap ramifications are the following:

2024-25 $1,444,445

2025-26 $4,444,445

2026-27 $6,444,445

2027-28 $2,444,445

2028-29  $2,444,445

2029-30  $2,444,445

If you buyout Skinner in 2025:

2025-26 $4,000,000

2026-27 $6,000,000

2027-28 $2,000,000

2028-29 2,000,000

Laid out like this and considering where the team will likely be next season there is no reason to not wait until next offseason to buy him out. 

[Crusader1969]

On 3/29/2024 at 1:19 PM, LGR4GM said:

If you buy Skinner out now (2024), the cap ramifications are the following:

2024-25 $1,444,445

2025-26 $4,444,445

2026-27 $6,444,445

2027-28 $2,444,445

2028-29  $2,444,445

2029-30  $2,444,445

If you buyout Skinner in 2025:

2025-26 $4,000,000

2026-27 $6,000,000

2027-28 $2,000,000

2028-29 2,000,000

That $6 mill in 26-27 will hurt 

but maybe it's worth the message it will send to the rest of the team?   Either that or you give him the Olofsson treatment for the next few years 

[Crusader1969]

Is it wrong to want to see 1000 Jeff Skinner Beanies that they are giving away to commemorate his 1000 game ? 

[Rasmus_]

On 3/27/2024 at 12:57 PM, LGR4GM said:

What's strange around here is everyone up in arms over Jeff Skinner and his 24g, 21a in 64game season to date but very little around here about Peyton Krebs who in 70 games has 4g, 11a which is 5g and 3a less than 18yr old Zach Benson. Krebs either hits next year or they need to think about moving on from him. Noah Östlund is coming and I'd bet money I can get him to give me 15pts a year so why pay Krebs? 

Krebs doesn't look to be a part, I'd move him in a deal for an upgrade on the right side of defense.  Mattias, Krebs and 1st for Rasmus Andersson?

[Kruppstahl]

On 3/27/2024 at 12:48 PM, Crusader1969 said:

In the most important games of the season Skinner is dropped down to the 3rd line. 
they have Greenway on the 1st line but, I think we can agree ,he is better suited for the 3rd line 

begs the question.  What to do with Jeff Skinner in the summer ? 
has a NTC, gets paid $9 for 3 more years, his defensive game is adequate at best.  
he is the teams oldest forward and isn't a great example for how the game should be played to the young  players.  At least in my opinion.

 

He will STILL be here next year; can't afford to move on from him next season.

The year after that, things look much better.  I say he's gone after 2024/2025 season.

The guy just refused to play defensively responsible hockey, and isn't enough of a mega sniper to get away with that.

 

 

 

 

 

[Crusader1969]

2 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

He will STILL be here next year; can't afford to move on from him next season.

The year after that, things look much better.  I say he's gone after 2024/2025 season.

The guy just refused to play defensively responsible hockey, and isn't enough of a mega sniper to get away with that.

 

 

 

 

 

I would argue that they can't afford to have him hear next year.    But if they do keep him , he is the 13th forward 

[PerreaultForever]

On 3/29/2024 at 10:21 AM, #freejame said:

Laid out like this and considering where the team will likely be next season there is no reason to not wait until next offseason to buy him out. 

UNLESS you want to start winning now and not a year from now. 

UNLESS you want to change the character of this team now before young players give up and want out. The clock is ticking to another Eichel wants out scenario. 

We don't spend to the cap anyway, one extra year of 2.4 is not huge. The biggest part of the money will be gone when we need cap room for Benson or whoever. Do it NOW.  

2 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

I would argue that they can't afford to have him hear next year.    But if they do keep him , he is the 13th forward 

Ship him off to wherever it was they sent Moulson.

[inkman]

3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

UNLESS you want to start winning now and not a year from now. 

UNLESS you want to change the character of this team now before young players give up and want out. The clock is ticking to another Eichel wants out scenario. 

We don't spend to the cap anyway, one extra year of 2.4 is not huge. The biggest part of the money will be gone when we need cap room for Benson or whoever. Do it NOW.  

Ship him off to wherever it was they sent Moulson.

$9 million dollar Rochester American Jeff Skinner.  Haha. 

[Pimlach]

On 3/27/2024 at 12:10 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

Jeff has a NMC and isn't going anywhere unless he wants to go.  The opportunity to move on is next trade deadline if the Sabres aren't in a playoff position.  However, no way TP pays $14 Million to Jeff not to play for the Sabres (nearly $20 mill in cap over the 6 years).  

And according to Rivet and Peters, it was Pegula that push the signing of Skinner and agreed to the contract.  

But again, Terry has vast coaching experience coaching his son at the Mite and Squirt level in that highly competitive Olean House League.  

https://www.oleantimesherald.com/sports/columnists/remember-when-pegula-was-a-local-hockey-coach/article_b369f874-d847-11e5-b387-67e32cba2312.html

[sabrefanday1]

Instead of buying a 30 goal scorer out why not use that money you'd be paying someone to not play to get a new coaching staff? TP is paying coaches to not coach so what is one more coach on the payroll? Or, for that matter, just move Meatballs to a assistant and hire a real head coach. Then immediately fire the assisitants and let your new head coach add who he wants to run the power play. 0-6 against Toronto is simply unacceptable.  

[oddoublee]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

And according to Rivet and Peters, it was Pegula that push the signing of Skinner and agreed to the contract.  

But again, Terry has vast coaching experience coaching his son at the Mite and Squirt level in that highly competitive Olean House League.  

https://www.oleantimesherald.com/sports/columnists/remember-when-pegula-was-a-local-hockey-coach/article_b369f874-d847-11e5-b387-67e32cba2312.html

I always saw the Skinner contract as reactionary to the ROR debacle. Pegula and Bortteril panicked. Plain and simple.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I don't think the Sabres will ever buy Skinner out.

You just don't do that with a 30+ goal scorer on a team without another one right now.

Jeff Skinner is not the problem.

 

[kas23]

On 3/27/2024 at 1:07 PM, IKnowPhysics said:

I'll also add that Skinner scored 40, 33, and 35 in non-Krueger years and is scoring at a 30 goal pace this year.

30 goals? We don’t need no 30 stinking goals. 

[Crusader1969]

1 hour ago, kas23 said:

30 goals? We don’t need no 30 stinking goals. 

25 of the last 31 games have been decided by 3 goals or less.  In those 25 games , Jeff Skinner has 3 goals and 4 assists.   
he might score but not when it matters 

If he isn't scoring he brings absolutely nothing to team.    Make a statement and buy him out. 

[Crusader1969]

ouch!!!

[Crusader1969]

He has 17 points in games the Sabres score 6 or more (8 times) 

28 points in the other 59 games.  

[Crusader1969]

Here is a question for the peanut gallery 

skinner has 3 goals in his last 9 games.   Which would be about 28 over an 82 game season 

now all 3 came in one game 

would you consider this player a consistent scorer or inconsistent? 

Rod Brind'amour knew.  
here is a quote before Jeff was traded to the Sabres 

"Now we've got guys to push him out of spots," Brind'Amour said. "If you're not going to quite dig in every shift then maybe you don't get every shift. That's definitely what I'm trying to preach and I've got to back that up." 
 

yes he scores BUT at what cost to the team?

[GoPuckYourself]

My guess is that until his production falls off a cliff he'll be on our roster. If he scores 30 this year that will be 3 years in a row he's hit that bench mark or above so I don't see them moving on until that total comes down but I'd love to see them add a better top line LW, maybe Peterka takes over that roll with Thompson and Quinn? That's the hope, then Skinner, Cozens and Tuch line 2. If we can get some better caliber players in our bottom 6 , more Greenway types imo, maybe Kulich makes the leap, Rousek and some veterans would be ideal.

[bunomatic]

3 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Here is a question for the peanut gallery 

skinner has 3 goals in his last 9 games.   Which would be about 28 over an 82 game season 

now all 3 came in one game 

would you consider this player a consistent scorer or inconsistent? 

Rod Brind'amour knew.  
here is a quote before Jeff was traded to the Sabres 

"Now we've got guys to push him out of spots," Brind'Amour said. "If you're not going to quite dig in every shift then maybe you don't get every shift. That's definitely what I'm trying to preach and I've got to back that up." 
 

yes he scores BUT at what cost to the team?

Would love the Sabres coach to demand accountability like that.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Rod Brind'amour knew.  
here is a quote before Jeff was traded to the Sabres 

"Now we've got guys to push him out of spots," Brind'Amour said. "If you're not going to quite dig in every shift then maybe you don't get every shift. That's definitely what I'm trying to preach and I've got to back that up." 
 

yes he scores BUT at what cost to the team?

Which is exactly the same as Philly with their "subtractions."   Hayes was an allstar for them but Torts said he had to go, he went, and they are better. 

[SabreFinn]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Which is exactly the same as Philly with their "subtractions."   Hayes was an allstar for them but Torts said he had to go, he went, and they are better. 

And Trotz got rid of Duchene and Johansen. It is common sense, work hard or leave.

[Archie Lee]

9 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

Here is a question for the peanut gallery 

skinner has 3 goals in his last 9 games.   Which would be about 28 over an 82 game season 

now all 3 came in one game 

would you consider this player a consistent scorer or inconsistent? 

Rod Brind'amour knew.  
here is a quote before Jeff was traded to the Sabres 

"Now we've got guys to push him out of spots," Brind'Amour said. "If you're not going to quite dig in every shift then maybe you don't get every shift. That's definitely what I'm trying to preach and I've got to back that up." 
 

yes he scores BUT at what cost to the team?

I’m sorry, but some are acting as though Skinner is the first high-priced, point-producing, bad at defence, sometimes lazy, winger to ever play in the NHL. There have been dozens and maybe hundreds over the years. They sometimes are on playoff teams and sometimes not. Skinner never being on a playoff team is a statistical anomaly far more attributable to the circumstances he has found himself in than to any impact that he had on those circumstances. That doesn’t mean that reasonable discussions about his role, impact, and future should not be had. But Jeff Skinner is not the reason we have missed the playoffs in the last 6 years anymore than Dahlin is the reason. 

[oddoublee]

2 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

I’m sorry, but some are acting as though Skinner is the first high-priced, point-producing, bad at defence, sometimes lazy, winger to ever play in the NHL. There have been dozens and maybe hundreds over the years. They sometimes are on playoff teams and sometimes not. Skinner never being on a playoff team is a statistical anomaly far more attributable to the circumstances he has found himself in than to any impact that he had on those circumstances. That doesn’t mean that reasonable discussions about his role, impact, and future should not be had. But Jeff Skinner is not the reason we have missed the playoffs in the last 6 years anymore than Dahlin is the reason. 

i wouldnt say he is the sole reason. there are always multiple puzzle pieces that create the nightmare scenario the organization finds its self in. 

he is most likely one of the many pieces that has attributed to this spectacular implosion of a franchise. he is a really likeable vet making him impressionable on a young team. that is a franchise building no no. 

if want things to get better; start removing as many bad pieces as you can. skinner is one of them. 

[Archie Lee]

2 minutes ago, oddoublee said:

i wouldnt say he is the sole reason. there are always multiple puzzle pieces that create the nightmare scenario the organization finds its self in. 

he is most likely one of the many pieces that has attributed to this spectacular implosion of a franchise. he is a really likeable vet making him impressionable on a young team. that is a franchise building no no. 

if want things to get better; start removing as many bad pieces as you can. skinner is one of them. 

Fair enough. But dont be surprised if he signs a 2x2 deal with the Leafs or Red Wings and scores 25-30 and is in the playoffs next year.