Casey Mittelstadt traded for Bowen Byram

[bob_sauve28]

 

[sabrefanday1]

I was concerned at first about losing MItts but after seeing Byram I have no doubt now that this was a very good trade for us...the guy is a top 2 d-man and they are very hard to find (and very rare to get one in a trade for what can be classified as a 2nd line or 3rd line center). Now we desperately need to get at least one vet centermen for faceoffs. Man we sucked against the Oil on faceoffs... 

[Shoot da Puck]

To old for this team. Might croak before training camp 

 

 

[Archie Lee]

Ok, I now see how Byram makes us better. Dahlin, Byram, Power is potentially a truly top 3. This will particularly be true when their average age is higher than 22. 
 

I still would have preferred that it was accompanied by a move for a veteran forward who can play centre and wing. Maybe it will happen in the off-season. If Tuch’s buddy Chandler Stephenson comes to us as a UFA, that would get me excited. That is not the sort of thing that is going to happen though. In his press conferences, Adams tends to work to lower expectations (trades are hard, they are concerned about taking on a player’s declining years in UFA, they won’t overpay, they aren’t shopping players, trades are hard). 

[French Collection]

14 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Yeah, I see that, but it should not be.  It will be interesting to see what happens in the summer.

Baring no changes I can see Byram with Dahlin.  Power with Muel and Cliffsie with Joker may not be terrible.  Or maybe Clifton with Power.  What's his name is looking like a good #7 too.

I could see that possibly happening but it would be the weirdest D corps in the league with two LHD pairings and a RHD pairing.

That’s kind of how they slot right now talent wise. Power and Mule could be a solid shutdown pair if they could find some chemistry.

[Thorny]

15 hours ago, Hank said:

Does adding Greenway, Robinson, Jost and Clifton to the roster the last two years while subtracting no one not disprove this whole "don't want to block the kids" narrative?

Does the Mitts for Byram trade not disprove a couple other narratives?

Are there any narratives left?

That we haven’t made the playoffs 

Also “not blocking the kids” isn’t a narrative it was a statement from the GM lol

[Hank]

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

That we haven’t made the playoffs 

Also “not blocking the kids” isn’t a narrative it was a statement from the GM lol

Yes, he said it. So what? He's still blocking the kids. He brought in four players without subtracting any. He didn't promote any kids who haven't earned it. Those who don't like him latch onto those words and throw them out there. Again. And again. And again. Despite the fact that it's not true. It's a lie. It's dishonest. It's a narrative. But feel free to keep breaking sticks on that mutilated corpse of a horse. 

[BlowLeafsBlow123]

1 hour ago, Archie Lee said:

Ok, I now see how Byram makes us better. Dahlin, Byram, Power is potentially a truly top 3. This will particularly be true when their average age is higher than 22. 
 

I still would have preferred that it was accompanied by a move for a veteran forward who can play centre and wing. Maybe it will happen in the off-season. If Tuch’s buddy Chandler Stephenson comes to us as a UFA, that would get me excited. That is not the sort of thing that is going to happen though. In his press conferences, Adams tends to work to lower expectations (trades are hard, they are concerned about taking on a player’s declining years in UFA, they won’t overpay, they aren’t shopping players, trades are hard). 

Stephenson would be a perfect add to this roster. They desperately need to insulate the minutes that Thompson and Cozens get, as they're just not up to the task of playing all the hard minutes. However, I'm starting to wonder if Cozens needs to be made into the matchup guy to go against top lines. Perhaps giving him wingers that can help him be that guy is the way to move forward and put a little less scoring expectations on him. He's simply not someone who is going to consistently finish and create high-levels of offense. 

The goal should be to create lines that play a specific role. Just some random thoughts on guys and would love to hear some thoughts:

-Skinner needs to be minimized, if not removed from this roster. We cannot go into next year thinking of him as a top 6/top PP guy imo. If they want to start changing the make up of the roster, this is the best place to start that change. He's one of the most frustrating players I've ever watched, especially when he's not burying 30+ per year. I think last season was his absolute peak and it'll be tough sledding from here, which makes it a real shame they couldn't squeak into the playoffs and at least end the drought.

-Greenway should be looked at as a Bottom 6 guy, and preferably on a defensive 4th line and top PK. Imagine him and Girgs as the wings, with a really solid 4th line center. I think that's a line that could really help. Where's prime Johan Larsson when you need him?

-Quinn is one of their top offensive talents and should start getting top offensive minutes, including top PP. Obviously he needs to stay healthy to do so. Hoping this year was simply poor luck and not the beginnings of an injury prone career. I could see a line with Thompson (also needs to get healthy) working well, as Quinn has high hockey IQ to make up for Tage's shortcomings there. I think another top line talent or two is still needed to properly fill out this roster. We need a line that can put fear into the other team. Skinner, Tage and Tuch were good, but teams have figured out how to shut them down and it's been tough for them since about the mid-point of last season. They need players that think the game quicker with Tage and can make better passes. A true top line winger or center is the biggest hole on the roster, again IMO. I have major reservations about Tage and that he can ever get back to the pinnacle we saw last season, as again teams started to figure out how to shut him down rather quickly.

-Make a match up line that can go against top lines while also creating offense. Perhaps this could be Benson Cozens and Tuch. That would be a good mix a speed, forechecking and IQ (Benson). Tuch and Benson are stronger two-way guys and can take pucks away, while Cozens is improving in that regard. I think that line could win their match up on a lot of nights and still put up okay numbers. 

-What is Peterka? I've found his game to be supremely frustrating since about the first month or two of the season. He's very much a soft, perimeter player that has very low hockey IQ. He's basically Evander Kane without the physicality and toughness. To me, he might be another piece that can help change the look of the team as trade bait. Thoughts? Perhaps I'm too impatient with him.

-I pose this question to the board...what do you do with your third line for next year? Do they become a secondary offensive line or more of a shutdown type of line? I'm not sure we have the elite level first line that produces enough that you can't have a decent amount of scoring coming from your third line. I think the big question will become ... what is Krebs? Is he a legit top 9 center or not? My gut tells me that he's simply not good enough, but I'll give him a little bit more time to see if something clicks. Otherwise, it might be time to think about moving him in a deal to get some better players in here. Can a Krebs line with Skinner and Peterka provide secondary scoring punch in a diminished role? Not sure I'd be comfortable going in to the season with that in mind.

-Lastly, which prospects do folks see making it next year? It seems very difficult to project at this moment. I think there's a decent chance that Savoie jumps ahead of Kulich and Rosen. He might be that young Danny Briere type that this roster desperately needs. Really hopeful that he can be a center in the NHL. 

[PASabreFan]

9 minutes ago, Hank said:

Yes, he said it. So what? He's still blocking the kids. He brought in four players without subtracting any. He didn't promote any kids who haven't earned it. Those who don't like him latch onto those words and throw them out there. Again. And again. And again. Despite the fact that it's not true. It's a lie. It's dishonest. It's a narrative. But feel free to keep breaking sticks on that mutilated corpse of a horse. 

Is Devon Levi all forgotten and forgiven?

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Is Devon Levi all forgotten and forgiven?

You're well aware of my love for 6K. I'm not happy with how the year started. But, even with my 6K bias, I can see the argument that Levi earned a shot with his play at the end of Last year and being the best college goalie two years running. It didn't work out, and that sucks. It's not what I would have done, but I can see the argument for giving him a shot. 

[Hank]

10 minutes ago, BlowLeafsBlow123 said:

Stephenson would be a perfect add to this roster. They desperately need to insulate the minutes that Thompson and Cozens get, as they're just not up to the task of playing all the hard minutes. However, I'm starting to wonder if Cozens needs to be made into the matchup guy to go against top lines. Perhaps giving him wingers that can help him be that guy is the way to move forward and put a little less scoring expectations on him. He's simply not someone who is going to consistently finish and create high-levels of offense. 

The goal should be to create lines that play a specific role. Just some random thoughts on guys and would love to hear some thoughts:

-Skinner needs to be minimized, if not removed from this roster. We cannot go into next year thinking of him as a top 6/top PP guy imo. If they want to start changing the make up of the roster, this is the best place to start that change. He's one of the most frustrating players I've ever watched, especially when he's not burying 30+ per year. I think last season was his absolute peak and it'll be tough sledding from here, which makes it a real shame they couldn't squeak into the playoffs and at least end the drought.

-Greenway should be looked at as a Bottom 6 guy, and preferably on a defensive 4th line and top PK. Imagine him and Girgs as the wings, with a really solid 4th line center. I think that's a line that could really help. Where's prime Johan Larsson when you need him?

-Quinn is one of their top offensive talents and should start getting top offensive minutes, including top PP. Obviously he needs to stay healthy to do so. Hoping this year was simply poor luck and not the beginnings of an injury prone career. I could see a line with Thompson (also needs to get healthy) working well, as Quinn has high hockey IQ to make up for Tage's shortcomings there. I think another top line talent or two is still needed to properly fill out this roster. We need a line that can put fear into the other team. Skinner, Tage and Tuch were good, but teams have figured out how to shut them down and it's been tough for them since about the mid-point of last season. They need players that think the game quicker with Tage and can make better passes. A true top line winger or center is the biggest hole on the roster, again IMO. I have major reservations about Tage and that he can ever get back to the pinnacle we saw last season, as again teams started to figure out how to shut him down rather quickly.

-Make a match up line that can go against top lines while also creating offense. Perhaps this could be Benson Cozens and Tuch. That would be a good mix a speed, forechecking and IQ (Benson). Tuch and Benson are stronger two-way guys and can take pucks away, while Cozens is improving in that regard. I think that line could win their match up on a lot of nights and still put up okay numbers. 

-What is Peterka? I've found his game to be supremely frustrating since about the first month or two of the season. He's very much a soft, perimeter player that has very low hockey IQ. He's basically Evander Kane without the physicality and toughness. To me, he might be another piece that can help change the look of the team as trade bait. Thoughts? Perhaps I'm too impatient with him.

-I pose this question to the board...what do you do with your third line for next year? Do they become a secondary offensive line or more of a shutdown type of line? I'm not sure we have the elite level first line that produces enough that you can't have a decent amount of scoring coming from your third line. I think the big question will become ... what is Krebs? Is he a legit top 9 center or not? My gut tells me that he's simply not good enough, but I'll give him a little bit more time to see if something clicks. Otherwise, it might be time to think about moving him in a deal to get some better players in here. Can a Krebs line with Skinner and Peterka provide secondary scoring punch in a diminished role? Not sure I'd be comfortable going in to the season with that in mind.

-Lastly, which prospects do folks see making it next year? It seems very difficult to project at this moment. I think there's a decent chance that Savoie jumps ahead of Kulich and Rosen. He might be that young Danny Briere type that this roster desperately needs. Really hopeful that he can be a center in the NHL. 

Good call on Stephenson. Vegas will have some tough decisions this off season. 

To your last question, I hope Savoie, Kulich and Rosen all start in Rochester. I hope Östlund is there too. 

[Pimlach]

17 hours ago, Thorny said:

I’m good with that, but there are some logistical issues. We can’t be entering into next season with one of our top 3 centre roles being held down by a guy who’s still “getting a shot”, can we? I’d imagine we need him to more less prove he’s up for it before hand. Can he do that within the time frame of the remaining games? You’d be betting on quite a small sample size 

How do we feel, as of now, entering into next season with a centre spine of Thompson-Cozens-Krebs ? The level of seriousness required for a season that could end in year 5 of straight playoff misses for this regime? Or just feeling that there’s a hope it can live up to what we need? 

My biggest fear is they give Casey’s slot to Krebs.  I think that is a drop off that negates the gain of Bryam. 
 

Second biggest fear  is they don’t sign any other forwards and backfill with unready prospects.  
 

I really hope I’m wrong 

[JohnC]

9 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

My biggest fear is they give Casey’s slot to Krebs.  I think that is a drop off that negates the gain of Bryam. 
 

Second biggest fear  is they don’t sign any other forwards and backfill with unready prospects.  
 

I really hope I’m wrong 

The blueline unit is getting full. Dahlin, Power, Joki, Byram, Ryan Johnson, Samuelsson, Bryson, Clifton are in the mix. Will there be a trade in the offseason to add to forward group? It shouldn't be forgotten that Quinn who has played center should be back to health next season. This is going to be an interesting offseason. The GM has prospect, draft, and player chips to parlay. He needs to judiciously utilize them to improve the roster. 

With respect to Krebs replacing Casey, I think that Granato has a higher regard for Krebs than you have. We haven't seen Krebs play with wingers who can score. Don't write him off just yet as the possible third line center. 

[Pimlach]

2 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The blueline unit is getting full. Dahlin, Power, Joki, Byram, Ryan Johnson, Samuelsson, Bryson, Clifton are in the mix. Will there be a trade in the offseason to add to forward group? It shouldn't be forgotten that Quinn who has played center should be back to health next season. This is going to be an interesting offseason. The GM has prospect, draft, and player chips to parlay. He needs to judiciously utilize them to improve the roster. 

With respect to Krebs replacing Casey, I think that Granato has a higher regard for Krebs than you have. We haven't seen Krebs play with wingers who can score. Don't write him off just yet as the possible third line center. 

The whole promote Krebs thing was all part of the trading of Casey.  DG spews out 5hat Krebs’ play is driving him getting a look with better scorers.  Did Krebs do much as a 4C to get a look at 3C?   No, not on the scoresheet anyways.  Krebs is young, still growing and developing, was expected to have playmaking skills, but this all looks like a promote from within. 

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The whole promote Krebs thing was all part of the trading of Casey.  DG spews out 5hat Krebs’ play is driving him getting a look with better scorers.  Did Krebs do much as a 4C to get a look at 3C?   No, not on the scoresheet anyways.  Krebs is young, still growing and developing, was expected to have playmaking skills, but this all looks like a promote from within. 

The trading of Casey had a number of facets to it that went beyond the talents of a particular player. It dealt with the cap configuration and the length of his prospective contract. Casey was having a good year that increased his market value. It's a business. His cost for us was going to be high. Another facet to the Mitts deal had to do with altering the mix/balance of the roster. We got a legitimate first or second pair defenseman who had offensive skills. This was simply a good hockey trade for each of the trading teams. 

I've heard Granato talk about Krebs on a number of occasions. It appears to me that he has a higher opinion of him and his potential than many here have. Is he going to be better than Mitts? I'm more inclined to say no. That's not to say that he won't become a credible third center with better wingers. That's an open question for me. 

With respect to your postulation that the Krebs issue falls within the GM's philosophy of promoting within: Absolutely so. There's no question about it. The GM's often stated view is that it is better to build from within when you can without giving up assets. There's no hidden agenda here. For the most part, what he says he is going to do is exactly what he is doing. 

Coming from a Mitts afficionado (me), from the little I have seen of Byram, I like this deal. You give up value to get value. 

[tom webster]

16 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The trading of Casey had a number of facets to it that went beyond the talents of a particular player. It dealt with the cap configuration and the length of his prospective contract. Casey was having a good year that increased his market value. It's a business. His cost for us was going to be high. Another facet to the Mitts deal had to do with altering the mix/balance of the roster. We got a legitimate first or second pair defenseman who had offensive skills. This was simply a good hockey trade for each of the trading teams. 

I've heard Granato talk about Krebs on a number of occasions. It appears to me that he has a higher opinion of him and his potential than many here have. Is he going to be better than Mitts? I'm more inclined to say no. That's not to say that he won't become a credible third center with better wingers. That's an open question for me. 

With respect to your postulation that the Krebs issue falls within the GM's philosophy of promoting within: Absolutely so. There's no question about it. The GM's often stated view is that it is better to build from within when you can without giving up assets. There's no hidden agenda here. For the most part, what he says he is going to do is exactly what he is doing. 

Coming from a Mitts afficionado (me), from the little I have seen of Byram, I like this deal. You give up value to get value. 

It’s really kind of simple, if both players play their perceived potential, the Sabres got a top pairing defenseman for a second line center. 

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Yes, he said it. So what? He's still blocking the kids. He brought in four players without subtracting any. He didn't promote any kids who haven't earned it. Those who don't like him latch onto those words and throw them out there. Again. And again. And again. Despite the fact that it's not true. It's a lie. It's dishonest. It's a narrative. But feel free to keep breaking sticks on that mutilated corpse of a horse. 

 

This year the org said that Ryan Johnson would not be QB-ing the power play in Rochester because of Owen Power. . 

The refusal to develop Ryan Johnsons skill set for the reason of not stepping on Owen Powers toes is a huge part of the problem with this team. Teams need to compete. This team has very little consistent compete to it on a regular basis. It is in the top 3 complaints of probably 95% of the posters on this board. And a big part of that is because they refuse to compete internally. "Not getting in the kids way" and refusing to even have your best defensive prospect fill a role in Rochester because of Owen power is part of that problem. 

If anything the org should salivate at having another player come in and they should be promoting these guys going at it hard internally. 

I am not an NHL coach, but I have been a part of a few US National Teams, won a few National Championships, and been the HC for a  few National Champions teams. I have never ever been a part of one where we have not had a heavy amount of internal competition. You have to give guys an opportunity to win, but you also have to give them real threats to lose too. I would 100% tell a guy like Ryan Johnson to grit his teeth and go take that role from Owen Power. And everyday I would tell Power that if he doesn't figure it out Ryan Johnson will take his spot. This is how teams get better. 

[Thorny]

16 minutes ago, tom webster said:

It’s really kind of simple, if both players play their perceived potential, the Sabres got a top pairing defenseman for a second line center. 

Building a roster from scratch id go Byram too. But the reason this swap probably requires an accompanying move is because the roster isn’t at scratch and there’s a chance, hypothetically, if Tage doesn’t revert to 1C quality, that we need a 2C more than another 1D when we have 2 other first overall D in the system 

I’m inclined to think it’s not too difficult to add to the forwards in a way that helps offset the Casey loss, rather than just relying on the “hope” that all the forwards positively regress strategy exclusively, but while I don’t expect a huge addition I’d be pretty skeptical of a Tage / Dylan / Krebs c-spine, even with an improved defence 

[Huckleberry]

Sorry but if Thompson is not playing healthy, we have slim chances making the playoffs, shut him down for the year.

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, BlowLeafsBlow123 said:

Where's prime Johan Larsson when you need him?

Playing for Brynäs IF in Sweden.  Hey, he's only 31...

[JohnC]

38 minutes ago, tom webster said:

It’s really kind of simple, if both players play their perceived potential, the Sabres got a top pairing defenseman for a second line center. 

The added value that Mitts gave to the Sabres was that when needed he could be moved to the top line without it being diminished. Also, he had the versatility to play both the center and wing positions. Don't discount his versatility value. Don't misinterpret what I'm saying here because from the little I have seen of Byram, I am impressed. This was a good hockey trade for each team.

[Huckleberry]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

The added value that Mitts gave to the Sabres was that when needed he could be moved to the top line without it being diminished. Also, he had the versatility to play both the center and wing positions. Don't discount his versatility value. Don't misinterpret what I'm saying here because from the little I have seen of Byram, I am impressed. This was a good hockey trade for each team.

Yeah but bad for us if thompson and cozens don't get their act together next year.   Then you are relying on Krebs/Savoie/Kulich being good enough.

[Pimlach]

On 3/9/2024 at 5:40 PM, Hank said:

Does adding Greenway, Robinson, Jost and Clifton to the roster the last two years while subtracting no one not disprove this whole "don't want to block the kids" narrative?

Does the Mitts for Byram trade not disprove a couple other narratives?

Are there any narratives left?

Is anything that you don’t like or agree with a narrative?  

Players were subtracted to add the players you mentioned.  Unless Adams somehow gets a 27 man roster?  Picking Jost off of waivers and trading for Robinson (an AHL player) is really not good enough GM work for my liking, but yes, they all replaced players that are worse. Robinson made Jost expandable, Jost made Bjork expandable, Clifton made Clague and Lybushkin expendable.  All KA acquisitions.   

I think I recall Adams using the “blocker” term in reference to Ulmark and Levi.  It’s hard to defend his logic on handling the goaltending at this point since goaltending cost us a playoff berth last year.  At least UPL is now proving him right but his goaltending the two prior years were Tokarski, Dell, Anderson, and an AHL level UPL.   

Mitts for Byram does not disprove or prove anything after 2 just games.  Byram looks good but let’s give this trade time,  and for this to be a great trade for the team he must also backfill Mitts.  They seem to want the backfill to be Krebs since he is getting a serious look, but maybe he brings in a proven vet for 3C?  Assuming he does, then you can argue the blocker comment is no longer relevant.   
 

This off season let’s see if Adams can up his game with some veteran acquisitions.   

Edited March 11 by Pimlach

[Huckleberry]

Im not getting the JJP hate, he has been on of our best players up until now.    Few bad games and we trade him ? 

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

 

Mitts for Byram does not disprove or prove anything after 2 just games.  Byram looks good but let’s give this trade time,  and for this to be a great trade for the team he must also backfill Mitts.  They seem to want the backfill to be Krebs since he is getting a serious look, but maybe he brings in a proven vet for 3C?  Assuming he dies, them you can argue the blocker comment is no longer relevant.   
 

This off season let’s see if Adams can up his game with some veteran acquisitions.   

I understand some want to move on from Adams, but this is a little harsh 

Edited March 11 by Brawndo