Sportico Releases NHL Franchise Valuations Sabres are 30th

[Brawndo]

https://www.sportico.com/feature/nhl-team-values-ranking-list-1234693065/

 

It appears the Ottawa Sale really helped their valuation. 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I'm calling shenanigans.  Those numbers have to be made up.

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

https://www.sportico.com/feature/nhl-team-values-ranking-list-1234693065/

 

It appears the Ottawa Sale really helped their valuation. 

How the heck could the Sabres be worth less than the Jets

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I'm calling shenanigans.  Those numbers have to be made up.

With the exception of the Otters who just were sold and their value is well established, pretty much all of the valuations are made up.  The only exceptions would be for the teams that are held by publicly traded companies like the Rags.  And even their valuations are estimates to a degree.

[Doohickie]

30 minutes ago, Thorny said:

How the heck could the Sabres be worth less than the Jets

Newer arena?  It's only 8 years newer...

[Mango]

The NHL has so many midmarket cities, it is a shame they are so low by comparison (regardless of actual numbers). The NHL is a league that a city the size of Buffalo should be players in. In terms of value anyways. We weren't remarkably valuable before Terry, but we were middling at at 21st/22nd in the two years before he bought them. Just like historical win percentage, Pegula has tanked this franchise. I hope he can bring it back to life.

https://www.forbes.com/2010/11/30/leafs-rangers-canadiens-business-sports-hockey-most-valuable-teams-hockey-valuations-10_slide.html?sh=bfac1b855531

[IKnowPhysics]

5 minutes ago, Mango said:

We weren't remarkably valuable before Terry, but we were middling at at 21st/22nd in the two years before he bought them.

TV market sizes and the increasing influence of television dollars on franchise value.  Did Terry tank the value of the Bills too?  No.

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, IKnowPhysics said:

TV market sizes and the increasing influence of television dollars on franchise value.  Did Terry tank the value of the Bills too?  No.

The Bills have Josh Allen and have played meaningful football well into January, in a league that can basically prints money. Comparing the valuation of teams in the NHL and NFL is apples and Oranges. 

I don't disagree that TV money plays a role. But it is worth noting that Buffalo drives more Stanley Cup viewers than most markets in the country, even with a 12 year playoff drought. In 2019 more Buffalo had better ratings than either team in the Stanley Cup. Last year we were top 5. TV ratings can only go so far. 

[steveoat87]

This doesn't look so bad to me.  Dallas isn't much ahead of us and its a much bigger market.

[Sabres Super Fan]

1 hour ago, IKnowPhysics said:

TV market sizes and the increasing influence of television dollars on franchise value.  Did Terry tank the value of the Bills too?  No.

Look Terry Pegula is a bad owner because he makes poor decisions for both the Buffalo Sabres and Buffalo Bills when it comes to economic growth. The Buffalo Bills will never be up there with value compared to the other NFL teams building your stadium across the street from the stadium location mistake of 50 years ago does that. Terry Pegula has no one to blame but himself for not using his power to force New York State to come up with the money for a downtown Buffalo Bills stadium like Ford Field in Detroit. 

As for the Buffalo Sabres Terry Pegula screwed that up tanking and under estimating the damage tanking does to a declining rust belt city market that made very bad economic decisions for 50 plus years. In a NHL that was growing to the Sun Belt and West Coast making the Sabres further down the list of free agents wanting to come to Buffalo. Add the tank the Sabres sucking for over a decade no free agents of any quality wants to play here. The Sabres suck so bad our own Patrick Kane doesn’t want to play here with Kevyn Adams most likely crawling around on his knees to try to convince him to sign with Buffalo. The Sabres franchise is a mess and without the major arena renovations needed the Sabres will be sold out of town at some point. If the renovations don’t happen from New York State.

Some Buffalo fans need to wake up the Buffalo Bisons are potentially moving if they don’t get the New York State renovations. Our Sahlen’s Field infrastructure is old and our area is very behind the times with other baseball parks. Bob Rich JR. regardless of how much money he has has no say on this. If he can’t get the renovations when the Toronto Blue Jays 10 year PDC is up MLB will force Bob Rich to take a buyout of his triple a franchise. Also keep in mind Bob Rich JR. is in his 80’s now so there is that too. When the MLB took over the MILB it forces cities to upgrade their stadiums to keep them current or the Bisons will be moved to a city growing only to happy to take one of only 30 triple a franchises. Buffalo fans might say no way look at Fresno Grizzles they went from triple a to downgraded to single a because MLB said so they weren’t compliant to MLB and the Fresno owner took the triple a buy out. No way would single a baseball work in Buffalo after having triple a baseball. If the Bisons potentially move they are never coming back. Some Buffalo fans needs to wake up we aren’t a big one in Buffalo like Los Angeles or Chicago or New York City. With our poor leadership I could see Oakland potentially in Buffalo sports future because we have some naive people here. There is a reason why some people worship Terry Pegula naive people that heart is in the right place. But unfortunately are too trusting of the poor leadership in power for 50 plus years and counting making poor economic decisions for Buffalo. I like Buffalo, Western New York it’s been my home my whole life but I am old not the future. I am telling it like it is. Buffalo fans have to decide do you want to be Oakland losing three teams in a decade or do we smarten up make better economic decisions and keep up with the stadium and arena times. This isn’t about Terry Pegula he isn’t the future he is a old man older than me.

Key Bank Center is too far gone it needs to be totally replaced or completely gutted like MSG or the Seattle Kraken renovated arena. The whole seating bowl needs to be removed and replaced slopped steeper for better viewing and the 300 level needs to be like the old Buffalo Memorial Auditorium Orange seating. So you can see the rest of the seating sections below so you don’t feel so isolated as a Buffalo fan in the 300 level. You are like alone in the 300’s it’s a bad fan viewing experience especially for college basketball it is awful. The Buffalo Memorial Auditorium was better designed for viewing games no matter what the sport. Local Big 4 college basketball paid the price when it moved to then Marine Midland Arena now Key Bank Center and Buffalo college basketball fans realized the viewing experience wasn’t the Buffalo Memorial Auditorium. Now it’s happening to the Buffalo Sabres the view at home in front of the television is better and cheaper. Same with the Buffalo Bisons $50 stream with MLB television gets you all 150 Buffalo Bisons games home and away. All our Buffalo arena and stadiums need major upgrades or Buffalo potentially risks losing all of our teams. If Buffalo wants to be the bedroom sports community of New York City keep it up believing our stadium and arenas are fine? They aren’t fine they are aging with little done to them for 30 plus years. UB Stadium needs major overhaul and renovations for more than $380 million dollars if we tell it like it is with UB Bulls football our stadium should look like Snapdragon Stadium a top level FBS Group of 5 stadium and UB Football is FBS Group of 5 team in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Sabres Super Fan

[LGR4GM]

You need to look at this the way Billionaires do. It isn't about Buffalo being worth 900 million, it is about how much value you get from that investment year over year. Pegula bought the team for a ton less than what it is worth. It will be worth a ton more next year and the one after because sports franchises are rarities. 

If I buy a commodity that increases by 15-30% year over year that is a great investment. 

[Brawndo]

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

How the heck could the Sabres be worth less than the Jets

Canadian Market with sponsorship maybe? 

[SwampD]

I really don't care what the value of the Sabres is.

Not even a little.

 

Just win and it will go up.

[klos1963]

5 hours ago, Thorny said:

How the heck could the Sabres be worth less than the Jets

lots of empty seats at each game?

[klos1963]

3 hours ago, Sabres Super Fan said:

Look Terry Pegula is a bad owner because he makes poor decisions for both the Buffalo Sabres and Buffalo Bills when it comes to economic growth. The Buffalo Bills will never be up there with value compared to the other NFL teams building your stadium across the street from the stadium location mistake of 50 years ago does that. Terry Pegula has no one to blame but himself for not using his power to force New York State to come up with the money for a downtown Buffalo Bills stadium like Ford Field in Detroit. 

As for the Buffalo Sabres Terry Pegula screwed that up tanking and under estimating the damage tanking does to a declining rust belt city market that made very bad economic decisions for 50 plus years. In a NHL that was growing to the Sun Belt and West Coast making the Sabres further down the list of free agents wanting to come to Buffalo. Add the tank the Sabres sucking for over a decade no free agents of any quality wants to play here. The Sabres suck so bad our own Patrick Kane doesn’t want to play here with Kevyn Adams most likely crawling around on his knees to try to convince him to sign with Buffalo. The Sabres franchise is a mess and without the major arena renovations needed the Sabres will be sold out of town at some point. If the renovations don’t happen from New York State.

Some Buffalo fans need to wake up the Buffalo Bisons are potentially moving if they don’t get the New York State renovations. Our Sahlen’s Field infrastructure is old and our area is very behind the times with other baseball parks. Bob Rich JR. regardless of how much money he has has no say on this. If he can’t get the renovations when the Toronto Blue Jays 10 year PDC is up MLB will force Bob Rich to take a buyout of his triple a franchise. Also keep in mind Bob Rich JR. is in his 80’s now so there is that too. When the MLB took over the MILB it forces cities to upgrade their stadiums to keep them current or the Bisons will be moved to a city growing only to happy to take one of only 30 triple a franchises. Buffalo fans might say no way look at Fresno Grizzles they went from triple a to downgraded to single a because MLB said so they weren’t compliant to MLB and the Fresno owner took the triple a buy out. No way would single a baseball work in Buffalo after having triple a baseball. If the Bisons potentially move they are never coming back. Some Buffalo fans needs to wake up we aren’t a big one in Buffalo like Los Angeles or Chicago or New York City. With our poor leadership I could see Oakland potentially in Buffalo sports future because we have some naive people here. There is a reason why some people worship Terry Pegula naive people that heart is in the right place. But unfortunately are too trusting of the poor leadership in power for 50 plus years and counting making poor economic decisions for Buffalo. I like Buffalo, Western New York it’s been my home my whole life but I am old not the future. I am telling it like it is. Buffalo fans have to decide do you want to be Oakland losing three teams in a decade or do we smarten up make better economic decisions and keep up with the stadium and arena times. This isn’t about Terry Pegula he isn’t the future he is a old man older than me.

Key Bank Center is too far gone it needs to be totally replaced or completely gutted like MSG or the Seattle Kraken renovated arena. The whole seating bowl needs to be removed and replaced slopped steeper for better viewing and the 300 level needs to be like the old Buffalo Memorial Auditorium Orange seating. So you can see the rest of the seating sections below so you don’t feel so isolated as a Buffalo fan in the 300 level. You are like alone in the 300’s it’s a bad fan viewing experience especially for college basketball it is awful. The Buffalo Memorial Auditorium was better designed for viewing games no matter what the sport. Local Big 4 college basketball paid the price when it moved to then Marine Midland Arena now Key Bank Center and Buffalo college basketball fans realized the viewing experience wasn’t the Buffalo Memorial Auditorium. Now it’s happening to the Buffalo Sabres the view at home in front of the television is better and cheaper. Same with the Buffalo Bisons $50 stream with MLB television gets you all 150 Buffalo Bisons games home and away. All our Buffalo arena and stadiums need major upgrades or Buffalo potentially risks losing all of our teams. If Buffalo wants to be the bedroom sports community of New York City keep it up believing our stadium and arenas are fine? They aren’t fine they are aging with little done to them for 30 plus years. UB Stadium needs major overhaul and renovations for more than $380 million dollars if we tell it like it is with UB Bulls football our stadium should look like Snapdragon Stadium a top level FBS Group of 5 stadium and UB Football is FBS Group of 5 team in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

your 'off the cuff' reaction to this post?

[MBD]

7 hours ago, Sabres Super Fan said:

Look Terry Pegula is a bad owner because he makes poor decisions for both the Buffalo Sabres and Buffalo Bills when it comes to economic growth. The Buffalo Bills will never be up there with value compared to the other NFL teams building your stadium across the street from the stadium location mistake of 50 years ago does that. Terry Pegula has no one to blame but himself for not using his power to force New York State to come up with the money for a downtown Buffalo Bills stadium like Ford Field in Detroit. 

As for the Buffalo Sabres Terry Pegula screwed that up tanking and under estimating the damage tanking does to a declining rust belt city market that made very bad economic decisions for 50 plus years. In a NHL that was growing to the Sun Belt and West Coast making the Sabres further down the list of free agents wanting to come to Buffalo. Add the tank the Sabres sucking for over a decade no free agents of any quality wants to play here. The Sabres suck so bad our own Patrick Kane doesn’t want to play here with Kevyn Adams most likely crawling around on his knees to try to convince him to sign with Buffalo. The Sabres franchise is a mess and without the major arena renovations needed the Sabres will be sold out of town at some point. If the renovations don’t happen from New York State.

Some Buffalo fans need to wake up the Buffalo Bisons are potentially moving if they don’t get the New York State renovations. Our Sahlen’s Field infrastructure is old and our area is very behind the times with other baseball parks. Bob Rich JR. regardless of how much money he has has no say on this. If he can’t get the renovations when the Toronto Blue Jays 10 year PDC is up MLB will force Bob Rich to take a buyout of his triple a franchise. Also keep in mind Bob Rich JR. is in his 80’s now so there is that too. When the MLB took over the MILB it forces cities to upgrade their stadiums to keep them current or the Bisons will be moved to a city growing only to happy to take one of only 30 triple a franchises. Buffalo fans might say no way look at Fresno Grizzles they went from triple a to downgraded to single a because MLB said so they weren’t compliant to MLB and the Fresno owner took the triple a buy out. No way would single a baseball work in Buffalo after having triple a baseball. If the Bisons potentially move they are never coming back. Some Buffalo fans needs to wake up we aren’t a big one in Buffalo like Los Angeles or Chicago or New York City. With our poor leadership I could see Oakland potentially in Buffalo sports future because we have some naive people here. There is a reason why some people worship Terry Pegula naive people that heart is in the right place. But unfortunately are too trusting of the poor leadership in power for 50 plus years and counting making poor economic decisions for Buffalo. I like Buffalo, Western New York it’s been my home my whole life but I am old not the future. I am telling it like it is. Buffalo fans have to decide do you want to be Oakland losing three teams in a decade or do we smarten up make better economic decisions and keep up with the stadium and arena times. This isn’t about Terry Pegula he isn’t the future he is a old man older than me.

Key Bank Center is too far gone it needs to be totally replaced or completely gutted like MSG or the Seattle Kraken renovated arena. The whole seating bowl needs to be removed and replaced slopped steeper for better viewing and the 300 level needs to be like the old Buffalo Memorial Auditorium Orange seating. So you can see the rest of the seating sections below so you don’t feel so isolated as a Buffalo fan in the 300 level. You are like alone in the 300’s it’s a bad fan viewing experience especially for college basketball it is awful. The Buffalo Memorial Auditorium was better designed for viewing games no matter what the sport. Local Big 4 college basketball paid the price when it moved to then Marine Midland Arena now Key Bank Center and Buffalo college basketball fans realized the viewing experience wasn’t the Buffalo Memorial Auditorium. Now it’s happening to the Buffalo Sabres the view at home in front of the television is better and cheaper. Same with the Buffalo Bisons $50 stream with MLB television gets you all 150 Buffalo Bisons games home and away. All our Buffalo arena and stadiums need major upgrades or Buffalo potentially risks losing all of our teams. If Buffalo wants to be the bedroom sports community of New York City keep it up believing our stadium and arenas are fine? They aren’t fine they are aging with little done to them for 30 plus years. UB Stadium needs major overhaul and renovations for more than $380 million dollars if we tell it like it is with UB Bulls football our stadium should look like Snapdragon Stadium a top level FBS Group of 5 stadium and UB Football is FBS Group of 5 team in my opinion. Go Sabres! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Without Terry, the Bills are probably on their way to Toronto under the ownership of Bon Jon Bovi.  And you're the naive one if you think that a $3B downtown stadium ever had a chance to happen.  We're lucky the new one got approved given the money NYS had to kick-in, and it's already $300M over budget, which Terry will have to fund. 

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

I'm calling shenanigans.  Those numbers have to be made up.

Wasn't it just $600MM a few months ago?

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, klos1963 said:

lots of empty seats at each game?

Jets too 

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Wasn't it just $600MM a few months ago?

Could be.

The vast majority of these 30 entities are privately held.  Organizations lie Sportico and Forbes try to make reasonable estimates of the values of these privately held entities.  But they don't really know.  A fair amount of the info that goes into their estimates are guestimates.

It isn't Carl Sagan "guestimate of how many extraterrestrial civilizations are out there in the galaxy" level of guestimation.  (There literally is NOTHING that is more guesswork than that - every single # in his equation is a guess.)  But it isn't exactly exact either.

The Otters having been sold in the last year is the one team that the valuation is quite accurate.  And the new estimate is ONLY 45% higher than their last estimate prior to the sale.

So, while it is fun seeing what people think these are worth, there is a reason that teams ALWAYS sell for significantly different prices than these studies estimate they'll actually sell for.  The underlying #'s, for the most part aren't publicly available.  (And that's even with a lot of the gross HRR numbers actually indirectly available because that is the basis of the salary cap and the calculations that result in the salary cap are publicly available.)

[klos1963]

10 hours ago, Thorny said:

Jets too 

yep, and their ranking is dropping faster than ours.

Edited November 9, 2023 by klos1963

[mjd1001]

How is Columbus lower than the Sabres.  Bigger city, I have been to the Arena and I'm not sure how old it is but it is a really nice arena. The district around the arena is great.  They probably have had better attendence than the Sabres in recent years. And the last data I saw their ticket prices are low, but still a little higher thant he Sabres.