sabresparaavida Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 On 10/20/2023 at 5:27 PM, PerreaultForever said: Hasek was a superstar. No question. Perreault was arguably a superstar, but I could see an argument against that too. That's it for Sabres. Right now the league has one superstar in McDavid. Two fading old superstars in Crosby and Ovechkin and one possible future superstar in Bedard. There's another tier of players that you can make an argument for and they are all stars, but clear cut superstars? Highly subjective and I'd say no as my criteria for the term is extremely high. Others would lower that bar and include them. Pettersson might be in that group. Question, were the Sedins superstars? Is Matthews a superstar? For you. I didn't mean win it all with that. But dominate games or change the course of them yes. Makar is undoubtedly a superstar, just beat Bobby Ore’s record for being the fastest defenseman in NHL history to 250 points. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 hour ago, sabresparaavida said: Makar is undoubtedly a superstar, just beat Bobby Ore’s record for being the fastest defenseman in NHL history to 250 points. Impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 5 hours ago, sabresparaavida said: Makar is undoubtedly a superstar, just beat Bobby Ore’s record for being the fastest defenseman in NHL history to 250 points. Different era, different rules, different styles of play, every old record falls in the modern era. It means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 Just now, PerreaultForever said: Different era, different rules, different styles of play, every old record falls in the modern era. It means nothing. What? If you mean Gretzky broke all the old records, then great. But there’s been few important records broken in hockey and many phenomenal defensemen between Orr and Makar who couldn’t do it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, #freejame said: What? If you mean Gretzky broke all the old records, then great. But there’s been few important records broken in hockey and many phenomenal defensemen between Orr and Makar who couldn’t do it. You just can't compare athletes from different eras, that's all. If your implication is that Makar is better than Orr was I'd disagree vehemently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: You just can't compare athletes from different eras, that's all. If your implication is that Makar is better than Orr was I'd disagree vehemently. That’s not the implication at all. You said every old record falls in the modern game. I’m trying to understand what you’re saying because that simply isn’t true. You’re trying to minimize an accomplishment for no real reason with no real factual basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said: You just can't compare athletes from different eras, that's all. If your implication is that Makar is better than Orr was I'd disagree vehemently. Some of those legends are so great that even being mentioned in the same breath is a significant accomplishment 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 11 minutes ago, #freejame said: That’s not the implication at all. You said every old record falls in the modern game. I’m trying to understand what you’re saying because that simply isn’t true. You’re trying to minimize an accomplishment for no real reason with no real factual basis. The game today is different and it allows for different things. Hence, I don't think it has much meaning. Makar's a great player in this era. No argument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said: The game today is different and it allows for different things. Hence, I don't think it has much meaning. Makar's a great player in this era. No argument. He’s a great player in ANY era Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 Just now, PerreaultForever said: The game today is different and it allows for different things. Hence, I don't think it has much meaning. Makar's a great player in this era. No argument. Paul Coffee couldn’t do it on the best teams in history with higher scoring numbers and a more open game. Bourque couldn’t do it and he’s the highest scoring defensemen of all time. If neither of these guys could do it in easier eras to score it should mean something. The fact that up to this point in his career his scoring is second to none, in a league where things like that simply doesn’t happen, should carry meaning. Just because Mel Ott didn’t end up being Babe Ruth reincarnated doesn’t mean he wasn’t an incredible player with an even more incredible start to his career. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 7 hours ago, sabresparaavida said: Makar is undoubtedly a superstar, just beat Bobby Ore’s record for being the fastest defenseman in NHL history to 250 points. One note that kind of adds some perspective to this. Orr’s first 250 games were when he was ages 18-21. Makar’s were when he was 21-24. Big difference there. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing Room Smoking Cigs Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 Makar deserves credit for what he's done, but he's no Orr. If you're basing on the games played, Orr played the best against the best in his first year before expansion. Only defenseman to win the Art Ross Trophy (twice). He paved the way for all others. As to Perreault, superstars of his era will say and do say he was the most talented hockey player they ever saw.... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted October 22, 2023 Report Share Posted October 22, 2023 After their game in Buffalo, Columbus and Detroit have had no trouble with Calgary. It’s games like that, regulation losses that kill us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 7 hours ago, #freejame said: Paul Coffee couldn’t do it on the best teams in history with higher scoring numbers and a more open game. Bourque couldn’t do it and he’s the highest scoring defensemen of all time. If neither of these guys could do it in easier eras to score it should mean something. The fact that up to this point in his career his scoring is second to none, in a league where things like that simply doesn’t happen, should carry meaning. Just because Mel Ott didn’t end up being Babe Ruth reincarnated doesn’t mean he wasn’t an incredible player with an even more incredible start to his career. And just because one hockey fan doesn’t agree with the premise of what you’re saying, Doesn’t mean he is correct. Don’t try so hard trying to get him to agree with what you’re saying. Does him agreeing with you really matter that much? I know I couldn’t care less. By the way, I agree with what you’re saying about Makar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAud Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 I guess this is yet again not the year the Bruins performance falls off. Damn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 Just now, TheAud said: I guess this is yet again not the year the Bruins performance falls off. Damn. Something something winning culture 🤔🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 hours ago, TheAud said: I guess this is yet again not the year the Bruins performance falls off. Damn. Team sold its collective soul to the devil or something. Their roster is is weak aside from their defense and goalies yet they keep winning regardless just to spite everyone else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 6 hours ago, Zamboni said: And just because one hockey fan doesn’t agree with the premise of what you’re saying, Doesn’t mean he is correct. Don’t try so hard trying to get him to agree with what you’re saying. Does him agreeing with you really matter that much? I know I couldn’t care less. By the way, I agree with what you’re saying about Makar. I don’t care whether he agrees with me nor have I been trying to get him to. He said records fall in the modern era constantly so it means nothing. That’s simply not true and he needs to acknowledge that rather than continuously doubling down. He can think Cale Makar sucks all he wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pastajoe Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 Not NHL but it looks weird. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 16 hours ago, #freejame said: Paul Coffee couldn’t do it on the best teams in history… He’s no Tim Teabow. More like Tea Higgins, am I right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sabresparaavida Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 17 hours ago, PerreaultForever said: Different era, different rules, different styles of play, every old record falls in the modern era. It means nothing. I was not in any way trying to make an argument that Makar > Orr. I was just saying that Makar IS a superstar. Makar is currently 3rd on the all time Defenseman Career points per game list, whereas McDavid is 4th. And the “every record falls in the modern era” is not close to the truth in Hockey. Last year, McDavid had the highest point total in the last 25 years, and still was 60 points away from the single season record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAud Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 7 hours ago, thewookie1 said: Team sold its collective soul to the devil or something. Their roster is is weak aside from their defense and goalies yet they keep winning regardless just to spite everyone else Pastrnak is pretty good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewookie1 Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, TheAud said: Pastrnak is pretty good too. Pasta + Marchand shouldn't be enough. Their centers are average at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 5 hours ago, #freejame said: I don’t care whether he agrees with me nor have I been trying to get him to. He said records fall in the modern era constantly so it means nothing. That’s simply not true and he needs to acknowledge that rather than continuously doubling down. He can think Cale Makar sucks all he wants. He doesn’t need to acknowledge anything. I guess that’s the point I’m making he doesn’t need to do anything. I completely agree with what you’re saying. But he doesn’t need to nor will he acknowledge a damn thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted October 23, 2023 Report Share Posted October 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, thewookie1 said: Pasta + Marchand shouldn't be enough. Their centers are average at best. The Bruins and 1st year Vegas are two good data points that complete buy in to a good system is a recipe for success. Edited October 23, 2023 by Weave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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