TBN: 'Glaring roster questions'

[sabresparaavida]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

I'm (risking) being a pedantic as#hole, but sometimes the shoe fits so I wear it. Lance wrote that the Sabres would be looking at Murray, among other fringe forwards, in order to fill the void left by Quinn. If he'd written that Quinn's absence opens up a roster spot for a fringe forward to claim - as you suggest - I would have glossed right over the statement of an obvious truth.

One more thing to note: last year, of the Sabres 13 forwards that played the most games, only Peterka, Jost, and Girgensons had less TOI/G. (Krebs and Quinn were tied) 

In terms of playing time, Quinn was around our 9th forward in a given game. It’s not completely unrealistic that one of these players gets similar minutes, even if they will not used be the same situationally (less Ozone starts, no PP time, maybe more PK time)

[That Aud Smell]

27 minutes ago, sabresparaavida said:

One more thing to note: last year, of the Sabres 13 forwards that played the most games, only Peterka, Jost, and Girgensons had less TOI/G. (Krebs and Quinn were tied) 

In terms of playing time, Quinn was around our 9th forward in a given game. It’s not completely unrealistic that one of these players gets similar minutes, even if they will not used be the same situationally (less Ozone starts, no PP time, maybe more PK time)

I definitely recall Quinn and Peterka sort of hitting a wall last season (and, in fact, being bashed into several walls (boards)) and consequently having their ice time cut way back for a long stretch. 

The team was expecting and needing both of them to take a substantial step forward in that department this season. So I wouldn't view Quinn's ice time from last season as particularly relevant to what's needed to "fill that void" for this upcoming season. That's to say nothing of replacing his actual production, nor to touch on finding a player who looks like a smooth criminal out there.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

I definitely recall Quinn and Peterka sort of hitting a wall last season (and, in fact, being bashed into several walls (boards)) and consequently having their ice time cut way back for a long stretch. 

The team was expecting and needing both of them to take a substantial step forward in that department this season. So I wouldn't view Quinn's ice time from last season as particularly relevant to what's needed to "fill that void" for this upcoming season. That's to say nothing of replacing his actual production, nor to touch on finding a player who looks like a smooth criminal out there.

People tend to minimize the fact Quinn, Peterka and Krebs were rookies last year and overlook how they were behind Mitts, Olofsson and Okposo in terms of ice time.

I was expecting that to flip this season at least for VO and KO.

The Quinn injury certainly puts a drag on that process and adds pressure to the latter 2 to continue their growth.

I think people have been too quick to push Krebs off to the side. I think he grew a lot last year, and he could really cement himself as a versatile middle-sixer this year and a valuable part of the team moving forward.

Edited July 25, 2023 by dudacek

[SwampD]

So, those were definitely some questions about the roster in that piece. Just not sure if any off them were glaring. They all seemed to have some pretty straight forward answers.

I really despise inflammatory language for the sake of click bait.

[Thorny]

On 7/25/2023 at 1:50 PM, SwampD said:

So, those were definitely some questions about the roster in that piece. Just not sure if any off them were glaring. They all seemed to have some pretty straight forward answers.

I really despise inflammatory language for the sake of click bait.

I do see what I’d term “glaring” questions because once again: the questions are obvious. Every aspect of the team last season that wasn’t up to snuff (goalies, etc) were issues we had been pointing out the entire offseason previous to it. This offseason appears much the same: if we fail this coming year, it’ll be for the reasons we can already see, areas that have gone noticeably unaddressed, where we are sitting here saying, “ok, let’s see if the results bear out the decision to stand pat.”

[SwampD]

10 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I do see what I’d term “glaring” questions because once again: the questions are obvious. Every aspect of the team last season that wasn’t up to snuff (goalies, etc) were issues we had been pointing out the entire offseason previous to it. This offseason appears much the same: if we fail this coming year, it’ll be for the reasons we can already see, areas that have gone noticeably unaddressed, where we are sitting here saying, “ok, let’s see if the results bear out the decision to stand pat.”

The thing is, Those are issues. not questions. Plus, we do know the answers.

KA did address the D.

And I would shout this next with all caps, but that is obnoxious-[there is no veteran starting goalie out there that is or would be available. Teams don't just give those away.] We gave one away, cuz we were trying to suck, and it led to 12 years of the suckiest bunch of suckiness that ever sucked. And it is annoying to keep hearing people cry and whine about it. Levi is the plan. Again, not a question.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

The thing is, Those are issues. not questions. Plus, we do know the answers.

KA did address the D.

And I would shout this next with all caps, but that is obnoxious-[there is no veteran starting goalie out there that is or would be available. Teams don't just give those away.] We gave one away, cuz we were trying to suck, and it led to 12 years of the suckiest bunch of suckiness that ever sucked. And it is annoying to keep hearing people cry and whine about it. Levi is the plan. Again, not a question.

Love it - we’ll either be good, or if we aren’t we couldn’t have done anything about it anyway. One day this will be every thread. Plan is the plan and what happens is the plan and there’s no sense debating anything cause we know the plan 

Yes. There are no options. Anything to the contrary is simply, as you say, whining. I think that’s the board’s big trick of the last year- convincing everyone that if you question one iota of anything you are simply, again, to use your words, crying 

promo was on my ass for pointing out a single solitary negative play in a *prospects game*. Even then, any comment that wasn’t simply shining had to be pointed out, and squashed for fear of breaking trend. Not everyone will agree, but I do honestly feel the temperament of the board is one that suggests a “buy in, or get out” attitude. Even as a (I guess I’m a vet, now?) long time poster, I’m finding it’s becoming a grating squeeze where there’s pressure at the seams to fall in line. That’s the vibe 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Thorny

[dudacek]

Can’t wait until hockey starts agains.

Mostly because I miss it.

Partly because we’re running out things to say about situations that haven’t changed for months and nerves are starting to fray.

[sabremike]

I don't want to be negative but when the plan is to hope Levi is essentially a generational level talent in being able to go straight from college (as an underclassmen no less) to the NHL while splitting games with a guy who is slightly better than David Ayers and one of the worst goalies in the entire league who has shown zero signs he will ever figure it out that doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

[Thorny]

24 minutes ago, sabremike said:

I don't want to be negative but when the plan is to hope Levi is essentially a generational level talent in being able to go straight from college (as an underclassmen no less) to the NHL while splitting games with a guy who is slightly better than David Ayers and one of the worst goalies in the entire league who has shown zero signs he will ever figure it out that doesn't exactly inspire confidence.

The funniest thing is that we are all willing to spot the Sabres the gamble that Levi is great right out of the gate. I believe. Everybody seems to think he’s the next League great. The amount of expectation on the kid is astounding though, it just is. But even granting him that, it’s also pretty true that your backup still plays a lot, REGARDLESS, like it’s still an important position to address when in-house options would suggest it’s a FURTHER risk on top of Levi to expect UPL or Comrie to amount to being a good backup. 

The fact an upgrade there would provide insurance to Levi being unproven is the icing on the cake and seems to make it an obvious area for supplement - with the cap space we have I just don’t understand the extra risk ie willingly, seemingly making their own degree of difficulty harder. 

but in the end I agree with dudacek, not just his post above but his point that it doesn’t matter if Adams HATES the idea of setting a hard line expectation, it doesn’t even matter what he hates, he could hate winning itself but if the trajectory of improving continues you literally can’t argue it 

The trajectory we’ve seen. 

You could make a limp one that we could have improved more but like, given whet we’ve seen for over a decade... I mean really? 

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Love it - we’ll either be good, or if we aren’t we couldn’t have done anything about it anyway. One day this will be every thread. Plan is the plan and what happens is the plan and there’s no sense debating anything cause we know the plan 

Yes. There are no options. Anything to the contrary is simply, as you say, whining. I think that’s the board’s big trick of the last year- convincing everyone that if you question one iota of anything you are simply, again, to use your words, crying 

promo was on my ass for pointing out a single solitary negative play in a *prospects game*. Even then, any comment that wasn’t simply shining had to be pointed out, and squashed for fear of breaking trend. Not everyone will agree, but I do honestly feel the temperament of the board is one that suggests a “buy in, or get out” attitude. Even as a (I guess I’m a vet, now?) long time poster, I’m finding it’s becoming a grating squeeze where there’s pressure at the seams to fall in line. That’s the vibe 

There probably is.  But who cares?  Keep posting the way you see things and if somebody disagrees either engage or ignore.  (Or better, engage and then ignore.  😉 )

[Taro T]

23 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The funniest thing is that we are all willing to spot the Sabres the gamble that Levi is great right out of the gate. I believe. Everybody seems to think he’s the next League great. The amount of expectation on the kid is astounding though, it just is. But even granting him that, it’s also pretty true that your backup still plays a lot, REGARDLESS, like it’s still an important position to address when in-house options would suggest it’s a FURTHER risk on top of Levi to expect UPL or Comrie to amount to being a good backup. 

The fact an upgrade there would provide insurance to Levi being unproven is the icing on the cake and seems to make it an obvious area for supplement - with the cap space we have I just don’t understand the extra risk ie willingly, seemingly making their own degree of difficulty harder. 

but in the end I agree with dudacek, not just his post above but his point that it doesn’t matter if Adams HATES the idea of setting a hard line expectation, it doesn’t even matter what he hates, he could hate winning itself but if the trajectory of improving continues you literally can’t argue it 

The trajectory we’ve seen. 

You could make a limp one that we could have improved more but like, given whet we’ve seen for over a decade... I mean really? 

And it's part of why keeping UPL up all year and rarely looking at what they had in Comrie was so frustrating.  They now STILL don't know if either of them can adequately address the backup role.  If they KNEW Comrie was nothing more than he appeared last year, it's far easier for them to convince themselves that the 3 headed monster MIGHT work.

If they KNEW Comrie could handle a 2 games every 5 workload adequately, then we the fans wouldn't be going AS nuts about nothing happening in net except the emergency goalie swapping from the backup anthem singer to a guy that's been adequate in the emergency goalie role in the past.

[SwampD]

6 hours ago, Thorny said:

Love it - we’ll either be good, or if we aren’t we couldn’t have done anything about it anyway. One day this will be every thread. Plan is the plan and what happens is the plan and there’s no sense debating anything cause we know the plan 

Yes. There are no options. Anything to the contrary is simply, as you say, whining. I think that’s the board’s big trick of the last year- convincing everyone that if you question one iota of anything you are simply, again, to use your words, crying 

promo was on my ass for pointing out a single solitary negative play in a *prospects game*. Even then, any comment that wasn’t simply shining had to be pointed out, and squashed for fear of breaking trend. Not everyone will agree, but I do honestly feel the temperament of the board is one that suggests a “buy in, or get out” attitude. Even as a (I guess I’m a vet, now?) long time poster, I’m finding it’s becoming a grating squeeze where there’s pressure at the seams to fall in line. That’s the vibe 

 

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

Can’t wait until hockey starts agains.

Mostly because I miss it.

Partly because we’re running out things to say about situations that haven’t changed for months and nerves are starting to fray.

Duds is right. How many more times do we need to hear that we need a goalie? It’s not pressure to fall in line.

And we don’t need Levi to be great. We just need him to be slightly above average out of the gate, and I’m pretty sure he will be. Our goalies sucked hind tit last year.

[LGR4GM]

I'd still offer sheet Swayman. 

[Night Train]

51 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'd still offer sheet Swayman. 

 How close is Boston to the cap ?  What would break them ?  I like him better than Ullmark. 

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, Night Train said:

 How close is Boston to the cap ?  What would break them ?  I like him better than Ullmark. 

5.4million with RFA and defender Trent Frederic also left to sign. 

Up to 4,290,125 the compensation is only a 2nd round pick. I would offer Swayman that for 2 years and see what he says. 

[Marvin]

I just read that Leaf fans think buying out TJ Brodie is one way out of their Cap Hell.  I would be willing to sign him.

[Porous Five Hole]

On 7/28/2023 at 7:41 AM, LGR4GM said:

I'd still offer sheet Swayman. 

He filed for arbitration, so he’s not eligible to be signed. 

[MISabresFan]

On 7/27/2023 at 8:47 PM, Thorny said:

The funniest thing is that we are all willing to spot the Sabres the gamble that Levi is great right out of the gate. I believe. Everybody seems to think he’s the next League great. The amount of expectation on the kid is astounding though, it just is. But even granting him that, it’s also pretty true that your backup still plays a lot, REGARDLESS, like it’s still an important position to address when in-house options would suggest it’s a FURTHER risk on top of Levi to expect UPL or Comrie to amount to being a good backup. 

The fact an upgrade there would provide insurance to Levi being unproven is the icing on the cake and seems to make it an obvious area for supplement - with the cap space we have I just don’t understand the extra risk ie willingly, seemingly making their own degree of difficulty harder. 

but in the end I agree with dudacek, not just his post above but his point that it doesn’t matter if Adams HATES the idea of setting a hard line expectation, it doesn’t even matter what he hates, he could hate winning itself but if the trajectory of improving continues you literally can’t argue it 

The trajectory we’ve seen. 

You could make a limp one that we could have improved more but like, given whet we’ve seen for over a decade... I mean really? 

No different than spending millions on a proven goalie that falls apart in Buffalo.  Like it never happened before.  I'd take my chances with the kids.

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, MISabresFan said:

No different than spending millions on a proven goalie that falls apart in Buffalo.  Like it never happened before.  I'd take my chances with the kids.

Sometimes acquisitions don’t work out: why try 

welcome to Kevyn Adams sabrespace 

[Curt]

On 7/22/2023 at 6:02 PM, That Aud Smell said:

I like Lance well enough, but it’s difficult to take him seriously when he writes this in response to a question about how the Sabres will compensate for Quinn’s injury.

 

Brett Murray, for one, has absolutely zero bearing on how the Sabres will fill the void left by Quinn’s injury.

Olofsson will fill Quinn’s spot.  All those other guys will compete for a roster spot.  That’s just reporting the facts.  I’m not sure what you are taking issue with.

[Curt]

On 7/22/2023 at 8:24 PM, That Aud Smell said:

My issue was that he was noting those players in answering how the team would compensate for the loss of Quinn.

Well, he is reporting to you that those are the guys who compete to fill the roster spot.  He is reporting that Olofsson will be kept around to try to fill the scoring void.  I’m not sure what else you want from him.

He can’t tell you what the lines will be to start the season.  He can’t tell you that they are looking to sign a veteran scoring winger if they aren’t.

[Curt]

On 7/25/2023 at 11:41 AM, That Aud Smell said:

I'm (risking) being a pedantic as#hole, but sometimes the shoe fits so I wear it. Lance wrote that the Sabres would be looking at Murray, among other fringe forwards, in order to fill the void left by Quinn. If he'd written that Quinn's absence opens up a roster spot for a fringe forward to claim - as you suggest - I would have glossed right over the statement of an obvious truth.

Ok, yeah, I think you are just being nitpicky then.

I think it’s totally plausible that they could pick Murray to be the guy who sits in the press box to start the season.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Ok, yeah, I think you are just being nitpicky then.

Also Lance’s wording was poor. 🤪

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Olofsson will fill Quinn’s spot. 

Christ I hope not.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I’m not sure what you are taking issue with.

His choice of words, which was poor and imprecise.

1 hour ago, Curt said:

I’m not sure what else you want from him.

Better words?

This isn’t that deep.

Edited July 30, 2023 by That Aud Smell