Standing Room Smoking Cigs Posted July 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: I mean, I'd gut the pipeline for those extra 2 years of McDavid when our cup window is brand spankin' new and wiiiide open. Yeesh.... McDavid is a game changer, better than Matthews, better than MacKinnon.... I know I sound like his agent, but this kid is all of that.... Why wait out FA, when you can get him now.... Granted he needs to go a team that isn't dysfunctional (I know we qualify as dysfunctional).... but if it doesn't pan out next year in Edmonton... it will be the biggest trade in the NHL since '88. If the pipeline is solid and you can afford to give up some.... go for for it. I just don't see Buffalo doing it. Not because I wouldn't want him here, I just think the NHL wants him in a large market favorable to TV.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: McDavid's next team will be the new Atlanta Thrashers or the new Houston Pilots If Atlanta gets another shot (I'd be surprised, but I've read your reasoning and it's not implausible), I hope they go with something other than the Thrashers. The Flames were just perfect. (I was a kid then, but that team was very likeable and I loved the sweaters.) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 9 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: I mean, I'd gut the pipeline for those extra 2 years of McDavid when our cup window is brand spankin' new and wiiiide open. And that 2 years is only significant if..... 1. McDavid extends beyond them for the maximum years and..... 2. McDavid can carry a team to multiple Stanley Cup Championships Selling the next 10 years of this team for 1 player, a player that has not carried his current team to a Championship match, let alone a championship, would not be considered prudent or wise. Stay the course, if he's avaliable at the end of his current contract, pitch an offer for a 7 yr contract, utilizing some of those very assets that will be NHL ready to roll in most cases as additional positives to the term and amount of contract. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 Last season: Oilers scored 325 (1st) Sabres scored 293 (3rd) Vegas scored 267 (14th) We don't have a scoring problem that's worth gutting the team to fix. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 13 minutes ago, Scottysabres said: And that 2 years is only significant if..... 1. McDavid extends beyond them for the maximum years and..... 2. McDavid can carry a team to multiple Stanley Cup Championships Selling the next 10 years of this team for 1 player, a player that has not carried his current team to a Championship match, let alone a championship, would not be considered prudent or wise. Stay the course, if he's avaliable at the end of his current contract, pitch an offer for a 7 yr contract, utilizing some of those very assets that will be NHL ready to roll in most cases as additional positives to the term and amount of contract. The trade I proposed got rid of 4 or 5 first round picks, but we also added 4 or 5 excess first rounders over the last few years. The prospect pool would be completely fine and probably still better than those of most contenders. Our roster is already full and we have like 6 first rounders who aren't on it yet. The point of doing that is to use the extra pieces as ammunition. What better target is there than Connor mcdavid, in this thought experiment? 8 minutes ago, ... said: Last season: Oilers scored 325 (1st) Sabres scored 293 (3rd) Vegas scored 267 (14th) We don't have a scoring problem that's worth gutting the team to fix. "Gutting the team" are we doubling the NHL roster sizes in the next CBA or something? We are going to have to ship out piles of prospects anyway if not. Our team is completely full of young talent now, yet I read somewhere that we have the best and deepest pool of young talent behind them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 (edited) If we traded Tage, Savoie, Kulich, Rosen and a 1st in 2024 for mcdavid, our roster would be Skinner - McDavid - Tuch JJP - Cozens - Quinn Krebs - Mitts - Greenway Rousek - Z - KO We would still have functional first rounders of recent drafts in Benson, Östlund, Power, Cozens, Quinn and Krebs. It would be impossible for the Sabres to "gut" themselves in any trade, even one that would be the second or third biggest trade in league history Edited July 17, 2023 by Randall Flagg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 2 hours ago, Taro T said: Shoot. Atlanta's market was robust back in the 70's. The Flames never averaged less than 12k per game until the final year when they were on their way out the door and they still stayed above 10k per game. The thing that killed them was the fact that even though they made the playoffs in only their 2nd year, and were consistently good (but not great by any stretch) they never managed to win a playoff series. Which was the real kick in the pants to Atlanta fans when the team immediately made it to the semi-finals in its 1st year in Calgary. And @GASabresIUFAN is on the right track blaming a large part of the Threshers departure on ownership being disjointed and then not particularly interested in hockey. Having no success in the playoffs was the rest of what killed them off. (IIRC they made the playoffs only once and then got swept in the 1st round that year. Or did they actually win a series only to be swept in the 2nd round. Know they got swept in their "best" performance in team history.) The Atlanta region market has substantially changed from the Thrasher era. As I said before, I'm not inclined toward expansion. But if Arizona can't get their arena situation resolved in some reasonable fashion, I can see them moved to either the Atlanta or Houston market. You make a potent point saying that the caliber of ownership matters in the success or failure of the franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Train Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 NY Rangers . Marketing. NHL would steer him there. Would love him here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: If we traded Tage, Savoie, Kulich, Rosen and a 1st in 2024 for mcdavid, our roster would be Skinner - McDavid - Tuch JJP - Cozens - Quinn Krebs - Mitts - Greenway Rousek - Z - KO We would still have functional first rounders of recent drafts in Benson, Östlund, Power, Cozens, Quinn and Krebs. It would be impossible for the Sabres to "gut" themselves in any trade, even one that would be the second or third biggest trade in league history Without a Quinn or a Peterka added to that list it wouldn't be enough IMHO. And at that point you're certainly gutting the roster train KA has been building up. You're doing this when scoring is not an issue. There would need to be a guarantee McDavid extends his contract here If you're giving up all of those assets. Right now I'd rather use those assets on an elite goalie and/or a top 3 defenseman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 16 minutes ago, ... said: Without a Quinn or a Peterka added to that list it wouldn't be enough IMHO. And at that point you're certainly gutting the roster train KA has been building up. You're doing this when scoring is not an issue. There would need to be a guarantee McDavid extends his contract here If you're giving up all of those assets. Right now I'd rather use those assets on an elite goalie and/or a top 3 defenseman. Can't get a guarantee making the deal with 2 years left on his existing contract. Until his John Hancock is on the paper there is no guarantee and he's not allowed to ink that until July 1 2025. This proposed deal with 2 years left on his existing deal would happen presumably in July 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 38 minutes ago, Night Train said: NY Rangers . Marketing. NHL would steer him there. Would love him here. Where careers go to die ? I'll be excited to see him there I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Getpucksdeep Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Standing Room Smoking Cigs said: BTW... thank you all to replying to this topic... I don't post often and appreciate your replies... even that BuffaloNill guy!!!😄 It's a great point. I'm not gonna try to GM but yeah thinking about McDavid in the east selfishly would be glorious. We get to see him play, and average sports fan might be interested in NHL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 2 hours ago, ... said: If the Bills can remain relevant in the NFL for the next three seasons and the Sabres can start making the playoffs the media will have no problem promoting a Sabres team with McJesus on it. We've all seen the numbers from years past: for some reason the Sabres draw viewers when they do well. In addition to the McJesus-choosing-the-Sabres angle to pumping up those playoffs, they'll have the first-time-to-win-a-Cup narrative to whip out. For a content-stagnant media entity like the NHL, it would be like manna from Heaven for the years the Sabres contend for the Cup with McJesus on the team. Pretty sure the great Buffalo diaspora has a lot to do with that. There are Bills and Sabres fans all over the continental US and they are fairly rabid football and hockey fans. So, when their team is doing well, they go out of their way to watch them. You started discussing the storyline, but left out some. The story line of the Sabres having ruined a decade + of hockey in WNY to land McDavid only to end up with the "consolation prize" of Eichel landing in Buffalo and then him wanting out and getting his wish and going then winning the SC 1-1/2 years after leaving Buffalo to have the chance nearly a decade later for both Connor and the 'Bres to try to win their 1st SC when that match that "should've been but wasn't" finally gets made. Shoot, the friggin' Hallmark Channel doesn't run stories that seem THAT scripted. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing Room Smoking Cigs Posted July 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, Taro T said: Pretty sure the great Buffalo diaspora has a lot to do with that. There are Bills and Sabres fans all over the continental US and they are fairly rabid football and hockey fans. So, when their team is doing well, they go out of their way to watch them. You started discussing the storyline, but left out some. The story line of the Sabres having ruined a decade + of hockey in WNY to land McDavid only to end up with the "consolation prize" of Eichel landing in Buffalo and then him wanting out and getting his wish and going then winning the SC 1-1/2 years after leaving Buffalo to have the chance nearly a decade later for both Connor and the 'Bres to try to win their 1st SC when that match that "should've been but wasn't" finally gets made. Shoot, the friggin' Hallmark Channel doesn't run stories that seem THAT scripted. That has to be an athlete's motivation.... Your the best in the world and seeing Eichel raise the Cup, shouldn't sit well with him. McDavid will force himself out next year.... be it the nightmare scenario that he goes to Vegas... (Buffalo heads would explode).... For all the talk about Matthews, McDavid needs a cup ,he is the face of the NHL who shouldn't just show only once a year at the ESPYS... As much as I hate to say it, he belongs in NY.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ... said: Without a Quinn or a Peterka added to that list it wouldn't be enough IMHO. And at that point you're certainly gutting the roster train KA has been building up. You're doing this when scoring is not an issue. There would need to be a guarantee McDavid extends his contract here If you're giving up all of those assets. Right now I'd rather use those assets on an elite goalie and/or a top 3 defenseman. I'd LOVE to use those assets for a goalie and defensemen. But just like my thought experiment, that's not gonna happen Which team is beating Tage plus 4 first round picks? I don't think we'd need to add Quinn or JJP. if we did, take out savoie or something I agree that the most logical path to immediate cup contention is to add D and goalies, that we don't in a vacuum need more scoring. I just view a potential mcdavid addition as a worthwhile detour off the path. The Sabres would be uniquely positioned to have probably the best shot at Connor if he asked out, and while the cup is always the main focus, there is something mystical and franchise defining about adding a historically great player, who is doggedly chasing a legacy It could be a two birds, one stone scenario And it would help in other ways. We are on Pesce's no trade list. It doesnt matter if we have piles of assets that would not be here if we made a trade like the above. We will still never be able to get him. Is that still true if 97 wore blue and gold? Edited July 17, 2023 by Randall Flagg 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 10 minutes ago, Standing Room Smoking Cigs said: That has to be an athlete's motivation.... Your the best in the world and seeing Eichel raise the Cup, shouldn't sit well with him. McDavid will force himself out next year.... be it the nightmare scenario that he goes to Vegas... (Buffalo heads would explode).... For all the talk about Matthews, McDavid needs a cup ,he is the face of the NHL who shouldn't just show only once a year at the ESPYS... As much as I hate to say it, he belongs in NY.... NYS, yes. NYC, no. See no reason why he should necessarily be there playing for one of the proximal teams to that nexus because the best player in the world doesn't need Slander, Evil, nor Anger at the core of who/what he is. 😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 45 minutes ago, Taro T said: Can't get a guarantee making the deal with 2 years left on his existing contract. Until his John Hancock is on the paper there is no guarantee and he's not allowed to ink that until July 1 2025. This proposed deal with 2 years left on his existing deal would happen presumably in July 2024. Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: I'd LOVE to use those assets for a goalie and defensemen. But just like my thought experiment, that's not gonna happen Which team is beating Tage plus 4 first round picks? I don't think we'd need to add Quinn or JJP. if we did, take out savoie or something I agree that the most logical path to immediate cup contention is to add D and goalies, that we don't in a vacuum need more scoring. I just view a potential mcdavid addition as a worthwhile detour off the path. The Sabres would be uniquely positioned to have probably the best shot at Connor if he asked out, and while the cup is always the main focus, there is something mystical and franchise defining about adding a historically great player, who is doggedly chasing a legacy It could be a two birds, one stone scenario And it would help in other ways. We are on Pesce's no trade list. It doesnt matter if we have piles of assets that would not be here if we made a trade like the above. We will still never be able to get him. Is that still true if 97 wore blue and gold? Tage + four first round picks + Quinn or Peterka + prospects to fix a statistical problem we don't have and to gain ephemeral labels and status we could earn by winning a few rounds in the playoffs? I think you're just playing around now. Edited July 17, 2023 by ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruff Around The Edges Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 (edited) If McDavid were smart he would force a deal or sign with one of The Big 6 in the USA, the markets that enjoy the sweet aromas of the tax breaks: Nashville Florida Tampa Bay Dallas Vegas Seattle In this locations McDavid can sign for almost 2M less AAV then in Edmonton and net the same $ if not more, other players follow suit as they do now, be able to spend millions more then high taxed NHL markets and McDavid will win multiple Cups. Edited July 17, 2023 by Ruff Around The Edges 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 2 hours ago, Standing Room Smoking Cigs said: Yeesh.... McDavid is a game changer, better than Matthews, better than MacKinnon.... *takes note Connor McDavid: Good at Hockey 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, ... said: Tage + four first round picks + Quinn or Peterka + prospects to fix a statistical problem we don't have and to gain ephemeral labels and status we could earn by winning a few rounds in the playoffs? I think you're just playing around now. I don't think it's as simple as "fixing a statistical problem we don't have" A huge part of our defensive issues come from the way we play on offense. Fire-wagon hockey. When we calm this down as we should, we simply aren't going to score as much Unless we have a transcendent talent who can play the part of the more mature, winning style of hockey, and still score at historic levels This could unlock an unprecedented ceiling Edited July 18, 2023 by Randall Flagg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 Can we get real? Wouldn't it be Dahlin +x +x +x, with Buffalo not likely having enough x's? Would you nut jobs even trade Dahlin for McDavid straight up? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 9 minutes ago, PASabreFan said: Can we get real? Wouldn't it be Dahlin +x +x +x, with Buffalo not likely having enough x's? Would you nut jobs even trade Dahlin for McDavid straight up? Right now I’m wondering if I might be a nut job, cuz I’m finding this question much more difficult to answer than I would have thought. Dahlin is going to be a wonder to watch grow and may end up on a similar level as McDavid. Mr.Ellipses also raises an interesting point about our scoring. But, damn he’d be fun to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing Room Smoking Cigs Posted July 18, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 2 minutes ago, SwampD said: Right now I’m wondering if I might be a nut job, cuz I’m finding this question much more difficult to answer than I would have thought. Dahlin is going to be a wonder to watch grow and may end up on a similar level as McDavid. Mr.Ellipses also raises an interesting point about our scoring. But, damn he’d be fun to watch. I for one... have been employing... ellipses... for all of my life... online...🤣 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HumanSlinky39 Posted July 18, 2023 Report Share Posted July 18, 2023 9 hours ago, Doohickie said: McDavid is nothing like Gretzky in terms of effect on a team. The Oilers won four Cups with Gretzky. That's not an apples/apples comparison. Those EDM teams were stacked. It's near impossible to put a roster like that together with a salary cap. I might be in the minority, but I think McDavid stays in EDM. Draisaitl is the one to watch when the time comes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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