Tage Thompson: Top 10 Center

[Zamboni]

59 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Simply Red?

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

Barkov played like ***** because he came back from injury to play in playoffs no? I always had Barkov above eichel BEFORE eichel's game breaking talent faded, so I will keep him there now. Jack was awesome in the finals no doubt 

Honestly, I’m not seeing that Fade 

His haircut sure

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Interesting.  Would have Eichel higher than 18th, but not sure exactly where between 8 and 17.

In Buffalo, only because of injuries.  That year he got 82 points in 77 games he was well on pace to end up over 100 points through 50 some games but then played through a leg injury that significantly hurt his productivity.  (Had 5 points in the 12 games surrounding him being out a few in mid-March.)

Want to say he was battling through injuries again that season that got cut short by Covid, but not recalling ottomh what the injuries were that he was dealing with.

19-20 was assuredly a breakout. Anything saying otherwise is objectively revisionist. Finished top 10 league scoring. Much improved defensively. MVP convo. Breakout season 

[Randall Flagg]

Just now, Thorny said:

Honestly, I’m not seeing that Fade 

His haircut sure

You know that I am a guy who refuses to downplay what Jack did here and what he meant to fans. I pride myself on remembering things as they were 

When I tune into Vegas games because I like the guy, I simply don't see the same guy. I see a very good player who is just what Vegas needed. I don't see the guy from that January game in Boston just before the collapse, or home against Nashville that year (or the next?) and haven't seen him in a long time 

[Randall Flagg]

Happy to admit I haven't kept up on Barkov though something could have changed there

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

You know that I am a guy who refuses to downplay what Jack did here and what he meant to fans. I pride myself on remembering things as they were 

When I tune into Vegas games because I like the guy, I simply don't see the same guy. I see a very good player who is just what Vegas needed. I don't see the guy from that January game in Boston just before the collapse, or home against Nashville that year (or the next?) and haven't seen him in a long time 

It’s all good, I’m not sure exactly why our readings are differing. I SAW that electric game changing guy in the playoffs. Easily the most dangerous guy with puck on stick in final. He set the pace when on the ice. I’m not sure how a guy could have been the best player in the playoffs, the hardest point at which it is to do so, WTHOUT displaying the best hockey of his career. It would defy logic. Maybe there’s some flash traded for D but his trajectory for me in on the up. 200 foot game.

17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Eichel has never had that huge breakout season.  Talent wise certainly.

For posterity

Tage Thompson MVP finish, 22-23: 14th

Jack Eichel MVP finish, 19-20: 8th 

Ive gots me lots of fun numbers..

Edited July 10, 2023 by Thorny

[DarthEbriate]

To me, a top 10 player at their position in the league is someone I'm not worried about icing in either zone with 0:50 remaining and either up or trailing by 1 and having a good feeling about tying it or keeping my net empty. It's like a top-10 QB in the NFL... you're down by 3 and just got the ball on your 25 yard line and you've got 1 time out and 0:50 on the clock. A top-10 QB you feel good about tying the game and possibly winning in regulation. Other QBs need to get really lucky or you're just praying it isn't a game sealing INT or strip sack. 

Tage is on my Center Council, but I don't yet grant him the rank of Master.

Tage has has only 2 NHL seasons at center (after 4 seasons on the wing). His potential is sky high. He can still take his sound defensive positioning and elevate it into suffocating defense where his reach is deflecting everything, forcing poorer shot angles, and his strength is dominating puck battles to get the puck out of the D-zone. Offensively, yes, he's very, very good. I think he can be a lock in the top 10 by the end of the 2023-24 postseason if he keeps progressing.

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

To me, a top 10 player at their position in the league is someone I'm not worried about icing in either zone with 0:50 remaining and either up or trailing by 1 and having a good feeling about tying it or keeping my net empty. It's like a top-10 QB in the NFL... you're down by 3 and just got the ball on your 25 yard line and you've got 1 time out and 0:50 on the clock. A top-10 QB you feel good about tying the game and possibly winning in regulation. Other QBs need to get really lucky or you're just praying it isn't a game sealing INT or strip sack. 

Tage is on my Center Council, but I don't yet grant him the rank of Master.

Tage has has only 2 NHL seasons at center (after 4 seasons on the wing). His potential is sky high. He can still take his sound defensive positioning and elevate it into suffocating defense where his reach is deflecting everything, forcing poorer shot angles, and his strength is dominating puck battles to get the puck out of the D-zone. Offensively, yes, he's very, very good. I think he can be a lock in the top 10 by the end of the 2023-24 postseason if he keeps progressing.

“...What?”

[SABRES 0311]

I don’t know if he’s too 10 yet but I’d say he’s on his way. I think he has not yet reached his ceiling. He got much better using his body to protect the puck. As that gets more refined I think it will compliment his playmaking by drawing defenders in and out of position. 

Great shot that I think he will maintain as he gets older. 

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

[BUFtoNCfan]

I’m not gonna argue with you. Man, after watching that I think he’s definitely top 10. He’s a goal scorer. Those weren’t lucky tap in goals. He dominated.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

It’s all good, I’m not sure exactly why our readings are differing. I SAW that electric game changing guy in the playoffs. Easily the most dangerous guy with puck on stick in final. He set the pace when on the ice. I’m not sure how a guy could have been the best player in the playoffs, the hardest point at which it is to do so, WTHOUT displaying the best hockey of his career. It would defy logic. Maybe there’s some flash traded for D but his trajectory for me in on the up. 200 foot game.

For posterity

Tage Thompson MVP finish, 22-23: 14th

Jack Eichel MVP finish, 19-20: 8th 

Ive gots me lots of fun numbers..

and you think he's better than TNT right now and has a better body of work than Barkov?  Jack had a great playoffs, but that doesn't make him a top 10 center.  I don't think TNT is one right now either, but I'd take TNT over Jack right now.

[Thorny]

37 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

and you think he's better than TNT right now and has a better body of work than Barkov?  Jack had a great playoffs, but that doesn't make him a top 10 center.  I don't think TNT is one right now either, but I'd take TNT over Jack right now.

I don’t need to debate any of that to stick with my initial contention w/your post, which was that Eichel did, in fact, have that big breakout season, your statements to the contrary notwithstanding 

Didn’t say JE was a top 10. Haven’t really put together a formal list tbh

He’s another guy that would need to maintain his current level over a longer period 

I’ll tell you this: neither, on their best day, is Sid Crosby. 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Thorny

[Drag0nDan]

2 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Eichel has never had that huge breakout season.  Talent wise certainly.

I also don't see him cracking 40 goals - if he didn't do it shooting 16% (like 4-5% higher than career average).  I also don't see it happening now that he's become more injury prone, and isn't really a PP goal threat.  

[Drag0nDan]

2 hours ago, DarthEbriate said:

To me, a top 10 player at their position in the league is someone I'm not worried about icing in either zone with 0:50 remaining and either up or trailing by 1 and having a good feeling about tying it or keeping my net empty. It's like a top-10 QB in the NFL... you're down by 3 and just got the ball on your 25 yard line and you've got 1 time out and 0:50 on the clock. A top-10 QB you feel good about tying the game and possibly winning in regulation. Other QBs need to get really lucky or you're just praying it isn't a game sealing INT or strip sack. 

Tage is on my Center Council, but I don't yet grant him the rank of Master.

Tage has has only 2 NHL seasons at center (after 4 seasons on the wing). His potential is sky high. He can still take his sound defensive positioning and elevate it into suffocating defense where his reach is deflecting everything, forcing poorer shot angles, and his strength is dominating puck battles to get the puck out of the D-zone. Offensively, yes, he's very, very good. I think he can be a lock in the top 10 by the end of the 2023-24 postseason if he keeps progressing.

I'd like to see Tage backchecking through the middle more effectively.  You watch boston and it seems like the high slot takeaways is where their offense comes from.  

[Buffalonill]

Tage is better then Jack Eichel it's not even a Competition.

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

Tage is better then Jack Eichel it's not even a Competition.

Would actually put them both very close to each other as each has a different strength.  But could you imagine seeing a team that had BOTH of them.  That'd be the bomb.  (Well, were it not horrendously dysfunctional.)

(Plus, could you imagine a team having Murray's apparent 2nd target to dump his 3 2nd rounders - Alex Tuch on that team WITH Thompson and Eichel.)

[Thorny]

13 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Would actually put them both very close to each other as each has a different strength.  But could you imagine seeing a team that had BOTH of them.  That'd be the bomb.  (Well, were it not horrendously dysfunctional.)

(Plus, could you imagine a team having Murray's apparent 2nd target to dump his 3 2nd rounders - Alex Tuch on that team WITH Thompson and Eichel.)

 

you

[GASabresIUFAN]

21 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Would actually put them both very close to each other as each has a different strength.  But could you imagine seeing a team that had BOTH of them.  That'd be the bomb.  (Well, were it not horrendously dysfunctional.)

(Plus, could you imagine a team having Murray's apparent 2nd target to dump his 3 2nd rounders - Alex Tuch on that team WITH Thompson and Eichel.)

Does Thompson become TnT if Jack is still on the roster?

[xzy89c1]

In order to be considered with the top centers, he needs to improve his faceoffs. he is abysmal. you need someone else to take important draws.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, xzy89c1 said:

In order to be considered with the top centers, he needs to improve his faceoffs. he is abysmal. you need someone else to take important draws.

The Sabres as a team need to accomplish this goal.

[Taro T]

19 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Does Thompson become TnT if Jack is still on the roster?

Maybe.  A year ago would've said no.  Without getting moved to C and without getting Eichel's spot on PP1 he wouldn't have had a big jump.  But after watching him the past 2 seasons believe he was going to take off that year Eichel left even if he stayed on the wing.  It just wouldn't have been as high.  But he would definitely have improved under Granato's tutelage.

When he tore up his shoulder doing the 2nd thing mites are taught to NOT do when getting hit into the boards (right behind putting your head down; you NEVER do that) was nearly completely ready to write him off as just not being able to get "it."  Couldn't have been more wrong.  Argued long and hard against ever moving him back to wing.  Expecting if he goes back to W that while he won't be breaking 100 points, he's still going to be a force to reckon with and that take that he can't play W will be shown to be nearly as wrong.

Edited July 10, 2023 by Taro T

[pi2000]

Out of 75 centers who took at least 800 faceoffs last season, Tage ranked 74th in win percentage.  

That needs to improve.   For a guy his size with the amount of leverage he can create, he should be near that top of the list.

[Buffalonill]

27 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Does Thompson become TnT if Jack is still on the roster?

No.

I saw something by a fan saying that jack hated tage thompson And constantly told management to send him to the AHL 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Buffalonill

[Zamboni]

26 minutes ago, Buffalonill said:

No.

I saw something by a fan saying that jack hated tage thompson And constantly told management to send him to the AHL 

“By a fan” … got it.

[mjd1001]

6 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

Centers I consider definitely above him: McD, MacKinnon, Matthews, Draisaitl

Centers I consider as probably above him: Hughes, Crosby, Pettersson

Centers I'm not sure/roughly equal: Point

Centers a tick behind Tage: Stutzle, Hintz, Hischier, Barkov, Stamkos, Aho, Kopitar

Am I missing anyone crazy? I think he's comfortably in the top 10.

Thumbs up simply because you listed Pettersson so high. Many (not everyone but many) people on this board forget about the guy, when I watch him play on that Vancouver team I think him and Jack Hughes look like they will be in the MVP discussion for most of the next 5-8 years.

On this topic overall....Tage is probably a top 10 center. He isn't top 5. But him and about 10 other guys are pretty much interchangeable for th 5-15 slot.