The Sabres and the Goalie market

[nfreeman]

4 hours ago, Crusader1969 said:

are the Sabres Cup Contenders in 23/24 in any of the following scenarios?

a) Trade for Hellebuyck

b) Trade for Gibson 

c) Trade for Hart

d) Roll with Levi and UPL

Assuming the cost for any doesn't include a roster player outside of Joker or Olofsson

 

 

All four, baby!

 

4 hours ago, Thorny said:

Why? I haven’t been extreme on the issue at all. I’m not “selling the farm” and never advocated to. We have a totally stacked pool. Being open to dealing from it even for ooooonly one year of term for say, Hellebuyck, is something I’m open to (as you know), for an example. I mentioned in the past I am open to moving draft picks as well. We can afford to trade any one prospect to be brutally honest (I already have Levi on the roster), but I’d certainly deal Rosen. Who knows if that’s even in the ballpark of that they’d take, of course. 2024 protected first and Rosen? I do it. 

You won’t find any posts of mine where I talk about selling off a bunch of guys or saying I want to deal Savoie or Kulich. The equation simply makes sense now because we can *afford* to listen on anyone. I’ve gone on record a multitude of times saying I don’t believe “untouchable” is a thing, while others use it liberally, unless you have McDavid. For others, Josh Bloom was “untouchable” and my posts saying he was expendable were considered tantamount to hot takes lol. 

It all depends what the deal is 

Gonna need a link to a smoking gun on this one.

 

3 hours ago, Weave said:

I think this season is going to see a more defensively focused Sabres, and consequently less run and gun.  Last year may have been career years for a bunch of guys as a result. I hope that is the case, certainly.

Nonetheless, I think we will still be a top 1/3 of the league offensive team with a middle 1/3 of the league defensive game.

With that game and Helle, we should be a dark horse pick for alot of prognosticators.

Top 5, if you please.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

 

Gonna need a link to a smoking gun on this one.

Don’t want to speak for @Thorny, but there were definitely posters who didn’t want to see Bloom go because he was “the only player of that type” in the system.

To be fair, the context was them not liking who he was traded for.

[GASabresIUFAN]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Don’t want to speak for @Thorny, but there were definitely posters who didn’t want to see Bloom go because he was “the only player of that type” in the system.

To be fair, the context was them not liking who he was traded for.

I did not like the trade of Bloom for Stillman because I thought then and still think that Stillman was and is a lousy NHL defenseman.  KA must have re-thought him as well because he is now down to 8th or possibly 9th on the depth chart depending on how management views Clague who they just re-signed.  I thought acquiring Stillman was a waste of an asset and still do.  Granted we need another depth-type forward prospect like a hole in the head and Bloom won't be missed (unless he becomes Brandon Hagel 2.0). 

Now back on topic; Goaltending or lack thereof.  When I made the list, it's pretty clear to me that Briere will move Hart at some point this summer or this coming season.  Why acquire Petersen when you have Sandstrom and Ersson behind Hart, unless you plan to move Hart to make room for Ersson to play with the more veteran Petersen.  Hart is kind of the ideal candidate for me.  He is young, but has years of experience already.  His numbers are good and he'd benefit from a change of scenery and a competitive team.  Buffalo also gets a goalie with 2 years of control.  That should be a bridge long enough for Levi to earn the No. 1 job instead of getting it handed to him now because there is no viable alternative.

I also think it's worth monitoring how Askarov (NSH) and Wolf (CLG) do in camp.  Do they force their way onto the NHL rosters, allowing Nash to trade Saros and Clg to trade Markstrom (he has an NMC) or Vlader?

 

Edited July 5, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, nfreeman said:

All four, baby!

 

Gonna need a link to a smoking gun on this one.

 

Top 5, if you please.

[triumph_communes]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I did not like the trade of Bloom for Stillman because I thought then and still think that Stillman was and is a lousy NHL defenseman.  KA must have re-thought him as well because he is now down to 8th or possibly 9th on the depth chart depending on how management views Clague who they just re-signed.  I thought acquiring Stillman was a waste of an asset and still do.  Granted we need another depth-type forward prospect like a hole in the head and Bloom won't be missed (unless he becomes Brandon Hagel 2.0). 

Now back on topic; Goaltending or lack thereof.  When I made the list, it's pretty clear to me that Briere will move Hart at some point this summer or this coming season.  Why acquire Petersen when you have Sandstrom and Ersson behind Hart, unless you plan to move Hart to make room for Ersson to play with the more veteran Petersen.  Hart is kind of the ideal candidate for me.  He is young, but has years of experience already.  His numbers are good and he'd benefit from a change of scenery and a competitive team.  Buffalo also gets a goalie with 2 years of control.  That should be a bridge long enough for Levi to earn the No. 1 job instead of getting it handed to him now because there is no viable alternative.

I also think it's worth monitoring how Askarov (NSH) and Wolf (CLG) do in camp.  Do they force their way onto the NHL rosters, allowing Nash to trade Saros and Clg to trade Markstrom (he has an NMC) or Vlader?

 

Let me qualify my next statement by saying I disliked the trade of a non NHLer for an NHLer that helped the team. I now have goalie opinions about acquiring any goaltender that breathes 

[French Collection]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I did not like the trade of Bloom for Stillman because I thought then and still think that Stillman was and is a lousy NHL defenseman.  KA must have re-thought him as well because he is now down to 8th or possibly 9th on the depth chart depending on how management views Clague who they just re-signed.  I thought acquiring Stillman was a waste of an asset and still do.  Granted we need another depth-type forward prospect like a hole in the head and Bloom won't be missed (unless he becomes Brandon Hagel 2.0). 

Now back on topic; Goaltending or lack thereof.  When I made the list, it's pretty clear to me that Briere will move Hart at some point this summer or this coming season.  Why acquire Petersen when you have Sandstrom and Ersson behind Hart, unless you plan to move Hart to make room for Ersson to play with the more veteran Petersen.  Hart is kind of the ideal candidate for me.  He is young, but has years of experience already.  His numbers are good and he'd benefit from a change of scenery and a competitive team.  Buffalo also gets a goalie with 2 years of control.  That should be a bridge long enough for Levi to earn the No. 1 job instead of getting it handed to him now because there is no viable alternative.

I also think it's worth monitoring how Askarov (NSH) and Wolf (CLG) do in camp.  Do they force their way onto the NHL rosters, allowing Nash to trade Saros and Clg to trade Markstrom (he has an NMC) or Vlader?

 

I’ve circled back to Hart being my favourite goalie acquisition.

He can handle the starters’ workload and has done fine on a bad team. He is young enough to fit into this team short term and perhaps longer term. He can help Levi navigate breaking in at a young age.

If Levi develops well then Hart can be moved for good assets.

[CTJoe]

22 minutes ago, French Collection said:

I’ve circled back to Hart being my favourite goalie acquisition.

He can handle the starters’ workload and has done fine on a bad team. He is young enough to fit into this team short term and perhaps longer term. He can help Levi navigate breaking in at a young age.

If Levi develops well then Hart can be moved for good assets.

I gree that he's the best option if Briere's demands for him become mroe reasonable

[LGR4GM]

Offer sheet Swayman

[GASabresIUFAN]

24 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Offer sheet Swayman

I asked that in another thread.  How much and for how long?  

[The Jokeman]

26 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I asked that in another thread.  How much and for how long?  

I don't know Boston's cap situation but would think need to go 4 years and in the $2.5-$3 million per season area which low end starting goalie money and cost the Sabres a 2nd rounder to acquire him. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I asked that in another thread.  How much and for how long?  

2 years, whatever the 2nd round pick offer sheet compensation is 

[triumph_communes]

Offer sheet the guy who went straight from NCAA to the NHL so that our guy doesn’t do the same thing?  

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

2 years, whatever the 2nd round pick offer sheet compensation is 

The limit for a 2nd is 4.29 per season.  Bos is currently 6.2 under the cap with 20 players under contract.  Swayman and Frederic are their RFAs.  No word on Bergeron or Krejci returning. Their 3rd goalie is Bussi (25) who had a very solid year in the A last season.  Frederic made $1 mill last year, but put up 31 pts (17g) last season. He’ll get a decent raise as well. 

I think they’d match a 2 year 4.29 per season offer, but it still may be worth the effort.

Edited July 5, 2023 by GASabresIUFAN

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

2 years, whatever the 2nd round pick offer sheet compensation is 

Make it a 3 year offer.  Walks him to UFA status.  If Boston matches, in addition to putting them tight against the cap, they have to worry about him leaving as a UFA a year after Ullmark was eligible to be a UFA.

Should the B's not match, the Sabres goaltending is set for at least 3 years.  UPL absolutely becomes tradable and they can look to take whatever they can get on Comrie as well if they think he'll get waiver claimed.  (That last sentence is true even without bringing Swayman in, but it's a lot easier to make those sorts of moves when you know you aren't looking at Tokarski being the backup on a fulltime basis should they not have a real 2nd NHL goalie locked onto the roster.)

[French Collection]

Another guy I wouldn’t rule out moving is Marc Andre Fleury. I know he has a NMC and is tired of moving.

The Wild have $7.4M cap space remaining to fill out 6 spots. They have 3 RFAs to re-sign in Gustavsson (#1 goalie) Addison (PP QB?) and Duhaime. 
They only have 5D, 6 with Addison so they could use one of the Sabres bottom options. Retain 50% on VO + Bryson to take MAF and his $3.5M. Step it up to Joker if they throw in Foligno.

The Wild have Hunter Jones at $785K and top prospect Wallstedt as goalie options to back up Gustavsson.

[GASabresIUFAN]

43 minutes ago, French Collection said:

Another guy I wouldn’t rule out moving is Marc Andre Fleury. I know he has a NMC and is tired of moving.

The Wild have $7.4M cap space remaining to fill out 6 spots. They have 3 RFAs to re-sign in Gustavsson (#1 goalie) Addison (PP QB?) and Duhaime. 
They only have 5D, 6 with Addison so they could use one of the Sabres bottom options. Retain 50% on VO + Bryson to take MAF and his $3.5M. Step it up to Joker if they throw in Foligno.

The Wild have Hunter Jones at $785K and top prospect Wallstedt as goalie options to back up Gustavsson.

MAF’s number were better than I thought last year.  He certainly knows about winning a Cup and is known as a good lockerroom guy.

[French Collection]

26 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

MAF’s number were better than I thought last year.  He certainly knows about winning a Cup and is known as a good lockerroom guy.

He would not disrupt the chemistry and would bring in some Cup rings.

He is from Quebec, like Levi. He could be the 23/24 version of Anderson, but able to play more.

[Cheektorado]

34 minutes ago, French Collection said:

He would not disrupt the chemistry and would bring in some Cup rings.

He is from Quebec, like Levi. He could be the 23/24 version of Anderson, but able to play more.

I'm all for TPeg filling the plane with French wine and appetizers and getting his derriere to Buffalo.

I'd sleep better.

[Huckleberry]

4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

2 years, whatever the 2nd round pick offer sheet compensation is 

I think you can get him for 5 mill for a 2nd rounder easy.  And Boston won't be able to match.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, Huckleberry said:

I think you can get him for 5 mill for a 2nd rounder easy.  And Boston won't be able to match.

If you up the offer beyond 4.29, we'd owe Boston a 1st and 3rd.

[Huckleberry]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If you up the offer beyond 4.29, we'd owe Boston a 1st and 3rd.

$2,145,062 - $4,290,125

1 Second Round Pick  , so 4.290 it is 🙂

[tom webster]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Offer sheet Swayman

I would do this if he wanted to but I’ve pretty much given up on the offer sheet route.

[GASabresIUFAN]

I put the below previously in the defense thread, but it probably belongs here.

In this century how many goalies have played 40 or more games at age 21?  5 since 2000.  https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/player-age/21-year-old-nhl-goalies.html

1. Steve Mason - 58 games - 3.05, .901

2. Carey Price - 52 games - 2.83, .906

3. MAF - 50 games - 3.25, .898

4. Luongo - 47 games - 2.44, .920

5. Hart - 43 games - 2.42, .914

6. Korpisalo - 31 games - 2.60, .920

7.  Ward - 28 games - 3.68, .882

So are we asking Levi to give us 50 quality games? Given these stats, is that a reasonable expectation?  I think 40-45 is much more reasonable.  So if Levi is only going to play 50% of the games, do you trust the Swiss Cheese boys with the other 40+?

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, Cheektorado said:

I'm all for TPeg filling the plane with French wine and appetizers and getting his derriere to Buffalo.

I'd sleep better.

Plus ALL the Canadian ballets just over the border claim all the talent are French Canadian.  Might make him feel at home.  😉

Far closer than St. Paul.

[Brawndo]

Swayman and Gustavasson both already applied for arbitration, we need those awards to be too rich for their teams