Should Adams bring in a starter and make Levi the backup in 23/24?

[Flashsabre]

It can’t be Levi-UPL. You can’t have 2 developmental goalies at the same time in a year you are expecting to make the playoffs.

UPL will be moved in a package in my opinion.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Flashsabre

[Archie Lee]

7 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

It can’t be Levi-UPL. You can’t have 2 developmental goalies at the same time in a year you are expecting to make the playoffs.

UPL will be moved in a package in my opinion.

It would be unorthodox to be sure.  But outside of the Hall signing (very different circumstances) and trading for Tuch (again, very unique circumstances), Adams has not made a major acquisition of a veteran player via trade or free agency.  Until Adams makes such a move at least once, it is difficult for me to conclude that him making such a move is now imminent. 

Under the circumstances (Levi pencilled in as #1, the Sabres being unlikely to commit to a veteran goalie on a longer term or larger AAV, the Sabres likely being unwilling to move higher end assets for a goalie), I honestly don't see a realistic goalie acquisition this off-season where it could be said definitively that the acquired goalie is a rock-solid better option than Comrie/UPL.   

[Archie Lee]

10 hours ago, Thorny said:

Vibes/atmosphere/culture obviously matter to KA

To not throw them a bone and give either the start in a meaningless game, when they haven’t played in a while, really to me doesn’t seem to be the actions of a GM very concerned with keeping their morale up

It could be confirmation bias on my part because they’ve been so poor...

but then again, they’ve been so poor 

Here's what I think happened over the last 12 games.

- The Sabres played, on balance, their best hockey of the year. They needed to in order to have any chance to get in and they full committed and played good hockey regardless of who was in net

- This corresponded with circumstances that required the organization to make certain commitments to Levi and, also, to the organization's legitimate desire to see Levi in NHL action

- When Levi got into a game he played well and showed he had the ability and that he could handle the pressure of the moment

- Given the situation the Sabres were in, Levi was the best candidate to help them do the improbable. He was the "lightning in a bottle" goalie and his maturity made the Sabres comfortable that they could roll with him without fear that there would be negative consequences 

- When they were eliminated in game 80, a reasonably healthy Anderson was the logical option for the last home game against Ottawa

- That then left game 82. Going with Levi was not a slight against UPL or Comrie; it was the opposite. Levi had been playing and was game ready.  Comrie last played March 27.  UPL last played April 1.  Levi had written a good story for himself. Nothing could realistically happen in game 82 against Columbus that would ruin Levi's end to the season. Comrie and UPL, on the other-hand had up and down years. Their last games were good though (UPL beat NJ and Phi; Comrie shut-out the Islanders and was arguably the Sabres best player in the shoot-out loss to Montreal). Going with Levi allowed all 4 goalies to end their seasons on high notes.

 

[dudacek]

48 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

The Sabres were 9-2-1 over their last 12 games.  Levi started 7, went 5-2 with a .905 save %.  Comrie, UPL and Anderson started the other 5 and went a combined 4-0-1 with a .924 save %.  Levi was great.  I think the evidence might support though, that the team fully committed to taking a serious run over the home stretch and, on balance, they played their best overall hockey of the season, regardless of who was in net..

Good take.

A bit of context to that is that 5 of Levi’s starts were must-wins against playoff teams. And in those 5 games he allowed 13 goals, with a 2.6 GAA and a .918 sv%

[Flashsabre]

36 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Here's what I think happened over the last 12 games.

- The Sabres played, on balance, their best hockey of the year. They needed to in order to have any chance to get in and they full committed and played good hockey regardless of who was in net

- This corresponded with circumstances that required the organization to make certain commitments to Levi and, also, to the organization's legitimate desire to see Levi in NHL action

- When Levi got into a game he played well and showed he had the ability and that he could handle the pressure of the moment

- Given the situation the Sabres were in, Levi was the best candidate to help them do the improbable. He was the "lightning in a bottle" goalie and his maturity made the Sabres comfortable that they could roll with him without fear that there would be negative consequences 

- When they were eliminated in game 80, a reasonably healthy Anderson was the logical option for the last home game against Ottawa

- That then left game 82. Going with Levi was not a slight against UPL or Comrie; it was the opposite. Levi had been playing and was game ready.  Comrie last played March 27.  UPL last played April 1.  Levi had written a good story for himself. Nothing could realistically happen in game 82 against Columbus that would ruin Levi's end to the season. Comrie and UPL, on the other-hand had up and down years. Their last games were good though (UPL beat NJ and Phi; Comrie shut-out the Islanders and was arguably the Sabres best player in the shoot-out loss to Montreal). Going with Levi allowed all 4 goalies to end their seasons on high notes.

 

I don’t agree. The major point you didn’t make was that they were playing for their playoff lives and didn’t trust UPL or Comrie to play a game down that stretch. They decided on the goalie straight from college instead of the two guys that were there all year. Not letting UPL or Comrie have the net in the final meaningless game against a bottom dweller in Columbus was a slap in the face to those two guys. I fully expected Comrie or UPL or both to split the game.

[LabattBlue]

Bringing in some combination of Levi, UPL & Comrie to training camp will be a big mistake by KA.  He has screwed up the goaltending position for 3 seasons, and cannot screw it up again in 23-24. 
 

A bonafide starter is needed for the fall. 

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, LabattBlue said:

Bringing in some combination of Levi, UPL & Comrie to training camp will be a big mistake by KA.  He has screwed up the goaltending position for 3 seasons, and cannot screw it up again in 23-24. 
 

A bonafide starter is needed for the fall. 

You are likely to be very disappointed.

[Archie Lee]

1 hour ago, Flashsabre said:

I don’t agree. The major point you didn’t make was that they were playing for their playoff lives and didn’t trust UPL or Comrie to play a game down that stretch. They decided on the goalie straight from college instead of the two guys that were there all year. Not letting UPL or Comrie have the net in the final meaningless game against a bottom dweller in Columbus was a slap in the face to those two guys. I fully expected Comrie or UPL or both to split the game.

Nothing about Adams and Granato suggests they are the type to figuratively slap anyone in the face.

Edited April 15, 2023 by Archie Lee

[Flashsabre]

9 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Nothing about Adams and Granato suggests they are the type to figuratively slap anyone in the face.

You are correct. I just think it shows they will be looking for an upgrade in net next season to go with Levi. I think they use UPL in a package to upgrade the backend and Comrie they try to get through to Rochester as the 3rd option.

[Archie Lee]

7 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

You are correct. I just think it shows they will be looking for an upgrade in net next season to go with Levi. I think they use UPL in a package to upgrade the backend and Comrie they try to get through to Rochester as the 3rd option.

Fair enough.  I think it is possible, but the likelihood of it happening starts to breakdown when you dig deeper. Consider that Adams has yet to make such a move at any position, that he has made clear he is committed to not blocking young players, that there really are very few goalie options that make sense from a term/AAV/acquisition-cost standpoint and that are also a clear upgrade, and it seems like a long-shot to me.

Regardless, what started me in this discussion was the notion that the Sabres starting Levi in game 82 was a sign the organization has already decided to move on from Comrie and UPL.  I just think that is wishful thinking on the part of people who have made up their mind that a change is required.

[Flashsabre]

50 minutes ago, Archie Lee said:

Fair enough.  I think it is possible, but the likelihood of it happening starts to breakdown when you dig deeper. Consider that Adams has yet to make such a move at any position, that he has made clear he is committed to not blocking young players, that there really are very few goalie options that make sense from a term/AAV/acquisition-cost standpoint and that are also a clear upgrade, and it seems like a long-shot to me.

Regardless, what started me in this discussion was the notion that the Sabres starting Levi in game 82 was a sign the organization has already decided to move on from Comrie and UPL.  I just think that is wishful thinking on the part of people who have made up their mind that a change is required.

I think it was more the fact they didn’t trust them the last 2 weeks in must win games and then the game 82 thing was just another indication.

The thing with UPL is they don’t like him more then Levi. He isn’t ready to be a reliable backup and he can’t get sent down without waivers. They could have sent him down for the AHL playoffs but didn’t want to and instead kept him in the press box down the stretch. He probably wants a fresh start. Put him in a package for a valuable piece coming back.

[Taro T]

On 4/15/2023 at 11:24 AM, Archie Lee said:

It would be unorthodox to be sure.  But outside of the Hall signing (very different circumstances) and trading for Tuch (again, very unique circumstances), Adams has not made a major acquisition of a veteran player via trade or free agency.  Until Adams makes such a move at least once, it is difficult for me to conclude that him making such a move is now imminent. 

Under the circumstances (Levi pencilled in as #1, the Sabres being unlikely to commit to a veteran goalie on a longer term or larger AAV, the Sabres likely being unwilling to move higher end assets for a goalie), I honestly don't see a realistic goalie acquisition this off-season where it could be said definitively that the acquired goalie is a rock-solid better option than Comrie/UPL.   

Umm, Adams actually did make that move you are looking for once.  He traded for Matt Murray.  The trade was nixed by Murray, but that doesn't mean that Adams didn't put an offer that was acceptable to another GM for a veteran player.

He also brought in Lyubushkin who is also a vet player.

Expect (hope?) the Sabres bring in a vet like Varlamov and will give the crease to whichever goalie they still have under contract come October that is playing the best and his understudy will be the 2nd best of the bunch.  And if there is no real separation between the top 2, they'd have a 1A / 1B situation.  Also expect the vet will initially be given the starter's role and that Levi will be the 2nd guy but that will change by the following season at the latest and possibly by Christmas.

[DarthEbriate]

Easy, proven solution: the 3-headed hydra goalie. You don't have to choose anyone. 😇

[Archie Lee]

24 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Umm, Adams actually did make that move you are looking for once.  He traded for Matt Murray.  The trade was nixed by Murray, but that doesn't mean that Adams didn't put an offer that was acceptable to another GM for a veteran player.

He also brought in Lyubushkin who is also a vet player.

Expect (hope?) the Sabres bring in a vet like Varlamov and will give the crease to whichever goalie they still have under contract come October that is playing the best and his understudy will be the 2nd best of the bunch.  And if there is no real separation between the top 2, they'd have a 1A / 1B situation.  Also expect the vet will initially be given the starter's role and that Levi will be the 2nd guy but that will change by the following season at the latest and possibly by Christmas.

Ottawa was paying teams to take Murray.  They gave Toronto a 3rd and a 7th and ate 25% of Murray's deal and got nothing back.  Nothing.  The rumored Sabres deal is that we were getting Murray, with retention, and Ottawa's 1st rd pick (7th) for our 1st (9th).  Acquiring Matt Murray was taking a chance on a veteran goalie who was on the scrap heap.  He's been as unreliable due to injury and has performed at a lower level than Anderson.  Murray would not have been what I would call a "major acquisition" personally and nobody would have concluded, as nobody concluded when the Leafs acquired him, that goaltending was now solved.

 

[Weave]

1 hour ago, DarthEbriate said:

Easy, proven solution: the 3-headed hydra goalie. You don't have to choose anyone. 😇

I would be genuinely shocked if it turned out any other way.

[Hank]

I think it's Levi and 6K next year, and for many more after. 

[Thorny]

I honestly don’t see KA bringing in a vet goalie to the tune of anyone suggesting the guy will be a 1A/1B with Levi. Doesn’t seem KA’s MO, I think he’ll want Levi to be thinking the crease is clearly his. I think he brings in a NEW backup, but clearly a backup in projection. The criteria KA will be looking for in this addition is the ability to play a back-up’s load and not a split-starter’s load.

[Buffalonill]

31 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I honestly don’t see KA bringing in a vet goalie to the tune of anyone suggesting the guy will be a 1A/1B with Levi. Doesn’t seem KA’s MO, I think he’ll want Levi to be thinking the crease is clearly his. I think he brings in a NEW backup, but clearly a backup in projection. The criteria KA will be looking for in this addition is the ability to play a back-up’s load and not a split-starter’s load.

 

[JohnC]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

I honestly don’t see KA bringing in a vet goalie to the tune of anyone suggesting the guy will be a 1A/1B with Levi. Doesn’t seem KA’s MO, I think he’ll want Levi to be thinking the crease is clearly his. I think he brings in a NEW backup, but clearly a backup in projection. The criteria KA will be looking for in this addition is the ability to play a back-up’s load and not a split-starter’s load.

He already has that type of player you are describing. It's Comrie. 

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, JohnC said:

He already has that type of player you are describing. It's Comrie. 

I’m still unclear as to whether you think KA will bring in a goalie next year..can you expand on this? 

[JohnC]

11 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I’m still unclear as to whether you think KA will bring in a goalie next year..can you expand on this? 

No, I don't believe he will bring in another goalie. I see Levi as our primary goalie with Comrie as the likely main backup. The three he has will be the three goalies the organization will be working with. I don't believe the staff has given up on UPL.

[Weave]

49 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I’m still unclear as to whether you think KA will bring in a goalie next year..can you expand on this? 

[Huckleberry]

13 hours ago, Hank said:

I think it's Levi and 6K next year, and for many more after. 

Im confident we will see a nice UFA goalie sign.  6K will be traded or waived. 

 

[JohnC]

14 hours ago, Thorny said:

I’m still unclear as to whether you think KA will bring in a goalie next year..can you expand on this? 

Now I got it. As you are well aware I can be thick at times. 🍺

[TRIP65]

On 4/15/2023 at 11:24 AM, Archie Lee said:

It would be unorthodox to be sure.  But outside of the Hall signing (very different circumstances) and trading for Tuch (again, very unique circumstances), Adams has not made a major acquisition of a veteran player via trade or free agency.  Until Adams makes such a move at least once, it is difficult for me to conclude that him making such a move is now imminent. 

Under the circumstances (Levi pencilled in as #1, the Sabres being unlikely to commit to a veteran goalie on a longer term or larger AAV, the Sabres likely being unwilling to move higher end assets for a goalie), I honestly don't see a realistic goalie acquisition this off-season where it could be said definitively that the acquired goalie is a rock-solid better option than Comrie/UPL.   

Yes Adams has to prove this. Made good Trades but not at a Level to succeed immediately. Need a proven solid Veteran 27-30 like Anderson was. If needed, can play 40 games or more in case Levi injured. See if there was a way to extend contract of Comrie and stash him on a Veteran contact for Amerks that allows him up to Sabres during injury. Obviously we would have to keep him up after or Waive to Rochester. Make the Salary big enough to dissuade that.