Super Bowl..the game, the food, prop bets and of course SB Squares

[GoPuckYourself]

1 hour ago, Porous Five Hole said:

Seems like this is going to be unpopular:

If it’s a penalty in the regular season, it’s a penalty in the Super Bowl. 
If it’s a penalty in the first quarter, it’s a penalty in the fourth quarter.  
 

I thought it was a marginal call, but the refs didn’t invent the incident.  
 

Everyone likes the refs swallowing their whistles now? 

 

The refs were letting them play the whole entire game with barely any calls of significance and then you call that on the biggest play of the entire game that seals the game? It was a bush league call, you cannot call that and in a world where many think sports particularly the NFL is rigged why would you give them more ammunition and I'm not a fan of either team but the great game was once again trumped by the refs.

[Thorny]

Great game. Calls went both ways. Agree with Philly coach, breaking it down to one call (which was correct) is never accurate, and the better team won.

Mahomes established as current standard in the sport, bar none

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Entertaining game.  Wish they all were.

Until Josh and Joe and anybody else out there now or who will be out there soon do what Patrick did last night and what he did 4 years ago they all will be excellent QBs, but will not be close to best of the era.  Not even a discussion to be had at this point.

League MVP.  SB MVP.  At least one of each for Patrick.  This year he was both and deservedly so.

[Pimlach]

That Holding call would have been a marginal call in the regular season.  The contact was at the line of scrimmage not downfield.  The ball was overthrown and not catchable.  Mahommes threw it away and KC was kicking the next play, leaving Philly some time.  But it was not to be.   
 

Philly may not have comeback but that penalty made it impossible.   The Eagles coach may be saying the “right things” but that call decided the outcome.  The NFL will never address it again, they moved on.  

[Porous Five Hole]

12 hours ago, Taro T said:

Agree w/ the bolded, but these refs let that exact play go repeatedly for over 58 minutes.

It's that they changed what they were calling at a point when there wasn't enough time left for 1 team to overcome it.

(And wanted the AFC Squad to win.  ALWAYS root for the AFC as long as their representative isn't a cheating bunch of chowdah heads.)

I am not one to debate for the sake of it and I don’t mean to single you out, but does everyone know this for sure? The teams almost scored 76 points and the combined completion percentage of QB’s was 74%.  How much defensive holding was really happening all night that was being ignored?

Also, the offending player admitted to the penalty after the game. It wasn't egregious, but it was a penalty. 
 

 

[SwampD]

13 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

How come?

I can feel @nfreeman puckering😂

I’ll just say that I think even the singing of the nation anthem is more patriotism than I need at sporting events.

[LGR4GM]

13 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

How come?

The Army covered up the cause of his death resulting in multiple investigations before it was determined it was a friendly fire incident at extremely close range that both his senior officer and other high ranking ppl sought to hide. He was opposed to the war. His personal journal which his brother knew he kept was never recovered. And yet the NFL and the Army continue to use his name image and likeness for their recruiting efforts. Just doesn't sit well with some people. 

3 hours ago, Pimlach said:

That Holding call would have been a marginal call in the regular season.  The contact was at the line of scrimmage not downfield.  The ball was overthrown and not catchable.  Mahommes threw it away and KC was kicking the next play, leaving Philly some time.  But it was not to be.   
 

Philly may not have comeback but that penalty made it impossible.   The Eagles coach may be saying the “right things” but that call decided the outcome.  The NFL will never address it again, they moved on.  

This is the truth. 

[Eleven]

18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He was opposed to the war.

Are you sure about that part?  I thought he and his brother joined specifically to be part of the war.

I think the rest of you wrote is spot on, though, and one of several reasons why I find his exploitation during a football game to be distasteful.

[Porous Five Hole]

14 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Are you sure about that part?  I thought he and his brother joined specifically to be part of the war.

I think the rest of you wrote is spot on, though, and one of several reasons why I find his exploitation during a football game to be distasteful.

“Tillman enlisted expecting to join the fight against Al Qaeda and the effort to bring Osama bin Laden to justice. Instead, he was sent to Iraq. All available evidence indicates that Tillman loathed the Iraq War.”
 

https://theintercept.com/2017/09/28/pat-tillman-nfl-protest-death-army-disgrace/

The story references two books written about Pat after he died (one was written by his mom). The quoted seems pretty clear.  

Edited February 13, 2023 by Porous Five Hole

[Eleven]

3 minutes ago, Porous Five Hole said:

“Tillman enlisted expecting to join the fight against Al Qaeda and the effort to bring Osama bin Laden to justice. Instead, he was sent to Iraq. All available evidence indicates that Tillman loathed the Iraq War.”

I am someone who sees a great difference between those two wars, so now I perfectly understand.  Thanks for clearing that up.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Eleven

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, Pimlach said:

That Holding call would have been a marginal call in the regular season.  The contact was at the line of scrimmage not downfield.  The ball was overthrown and not catchable.  Mahommes threw it away and KC was kicking the next play, leaving Philly some time.  But it was not to be.   
 

Philly may not have comeback but that penalty made it impossible.   The Eagles coach may be saying the “right things” but that call decided the outcome.  The NFL will never address it again, they moved on.  

“Catchable” doesn’t apply to that play, so many people are mistaken on this rule. Not on a hold at the line of scrimmage. It was on the receivers initial spin that the jersey was grabbed, stalling up the play right at the start, impeding the receiver, THIS is why the ball was uncatchable. This is why “uncatchable” isn’t a factor here, it’s not relevant/included in determination, by rule.

They did a great job breaking it down on TSN. The reason they initiated contact at the line is they had literally been burned on that exact play twice right before, he had no help behind him so jammed him up. 

It was the right call, right time. Even the philly player said he held him 

The last call at the end of a game, as usual filled with its fair share of questionable calls, doesnt “decide” the game. That’s not how it works - there are always *multiple* factors, moments and diverging moments throughout any of which going differently could have changed the outcome, and the one that comes last isn’t the most important just because it came last. Not logical - the 4th goal in a 5-4 win is as important as the 5th. If you take it away the game is just as tied as taking away the last one 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Thorny

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, Porous Five Hole said:

I am not one to debate for the sake of it and I don’t mean to single you out, but does everyone know this for sure? The teams almost scored 76 points and the combined completion percentage of QB’s was 74%.  How much defensive holding was really happening all night that was being ignored?

Also, the offending player admitted to the penalty after the game. It wasn't egregious, but it was a penalty. 
 

 

No one actually sees the play being “let go” for 58 minutes it’s just what they say because everyone says it lol. No one watches for that. No one posting a clip of another instance. Because it actually *wasn’t* happening on every play (this is why the chiefs were able to burn them on it twice, before the penalty). It’s not a real thing - but this space is quite heavily (expectedly) biased against the Chiefs. 

I mean I get it, but it’s a weighted discussion on its surface 

- - -

Another thing former NFL TE Luke Wilson did on TSN was a skewering of Greg Olsen which I honestly much appreciated: after breaking down why the call was correct, he lambasted Olsen for belabouring the point on air after the play endlessly - not only was Olsen wrong he did a HELL of a lot to shape the narrative - most viewers base whether the call is correct based on what the commentators say: most casual viewers and even regular viewers don’t know the ins and outs of the rules. 

The endless refrain of “uncatchable” is evidence of this 

First comments: 

“it was uncatchable!” 
“it was within 5 yards!” 
 

please...I beg of you...*learn the rules* mr and mrs twitter people, if you want to b*tch about em 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Thorny

[SABRES 0311]

1 hour ago, SwampD said:

I can feel @nfreeman puckering😂

I’ll just say that I think even the singing of the nation anthem is more patriotism than I need at sporting events.

To each his own. 

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

The Army covered up the cause of his death resulting in multiple investigations before it was determined it was a friendly fire incident at extremely close range that both his senior officer and other high ranking ppl sought to hide. He was opposed to the war. His personal journal which his brother knew he kept was never recovered. And yet the NFL and the Army continue to use his name image and likeness for their recruiting efforts. Just doesn't sit well with some people. 

I don’t disagree with any of this. I still think it was nice to see him remembered.

[Curt]

That was a really good football game.  The Chiefs were the better team.  They played as close to a mistake free game as possible.

Personally I get the complaints about a kind of weak holding penalty, but a penalty is a penalty.  I also thought that the 2nd fumble returned for a TD should have stood instead of being reversed after a lengthy review.  These things tend to even out.

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

To each his own. 

I don’t disagree with any of this. I still think it was nice to see him remembered.

To each his own.

IMO, It has no place on a football broadcast, other than it was paid for with a lot of tax dollars. NFL time on Super Bowl Sunday ain't cheap.

 

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

“Catchable” doesn’t apply to that play, so many people are mistaken on this rule. Not on a hold at the line of scrimmage. It was on the receivers initial spin that the jersey was grabbed, stalling up the play right at the start, impeding the receiver, THIS is why the ball was uncatchable. This is why “uncatchable” isn’t a factor here, it’s not relevant/included in determination, by rule.

They did a great job breaking it down on TSN. The reason they initiated contact at the line is they had literally been burned on that exact play twice right before, he had no help behind him so jammed him up. 

It was the right call, right time. Even the philly player said he held him 

The last call at the end of a game, as usual filled with its fair share of questionable calls, doesnt “decide” the game. That’s not how it works - there are always *multiple* factors, moments and diverging moments throughout any of which going differently could have changed the outcome, and the one that comes last isn’t the most important just because it came last. Not logical - the 4th goal in a 5-4 win is as important as the 5th. If you take it away the game is just as tied as taking away the last one 

I saw the many angles that the ref did not see on the field in real time.  I saw the jersey grab, I heard the coach talk, and the player dutifully take the blame.  But the rule states you can make contact at the line of scrimmage and for up to 5 yards.   This disrupts timing patterns with or without holding.   The “grab” looked inconsequential, the pass was way overthrown because Mahommes had to get rid of it.  

By the letter of the rule it could be called holding.  You can say the call was correct.  Then they should call it on every play, not only on the most important play of the drive.  In the context of the game, and what they were were calling and not calling all game, it was a bad call.  Like a baseball umpire changing the strike zone in the bottom of the ninth.  

You act like this was an obvious and easy call.   It wasn’t.  I can produce tons of footage of uncalled defensive holding with officials looking right at it.  Think Buffalo versus Tampa last year.  
 

No point in it.  KC won for lots of other reasons.  I think KC was better overall but I hated that call at that time.  It may not have decided the game but it ruined it.  

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, Curt said:

That was a really good football game.  The Chiefs were the better team.  They played as close to a mistake free game as possible.

Personally I get the complaints about a kind of weak holding penalty, but a penalty is a penalty.  I also thought that the 2nd fumble returned for a TD should have stood instead of being reversed after a lengthy review.  These things tend to even out.

I was fine with the holding call.  Probably also would've been fine if it hadn't been called.  I also thought the 2nd fumble was a fumble, and that the non-catch along the sideline was a catch.  C'est la vie.

More importantly, it was a great game, as you point out.

[Thorny]

53 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I saw the many angles that the ref did not see on the field in real time.  I saw the jersey grab, I heard the coach talk, and the player dutifully take the blame.  But the rule states you can make contact at the line of scrimmage and for up to 5 yards.   This disrupts timing patterns with or without holding.   The “grab” looked inconsequential, the pass was way overthrown because Mahommes had to get rid of it.  

By the letter of the rule it could be called holding.  You can say the call was correct.  Then they should call it on every play, not only on the most important play of the drive.  In the context of the game, and what they were were calling and not calling all game, it was a bad call.  Like a baseball umpire changing the strike zone in the bottom of the ninth.  

You act like this was an obvious and easy call.   It wasn’t.  I can produce tons of footage of uncalled defensive holding with officials looking right at it.  Think Buffalo versus Tampa last year.  
 

No point in it.  KC won for lots of other reasons.  I think KC was better overall but I hated that call at that time.  It may not have decided the game but it ruined it.  

I do not see it as a play that happened on every down, though. The clear differentiating factor is the visible jersey tug, which the official saw. 

It’s going to be called every time. The closest comparison is slashing in the NHL. It’ll get called, it’ll get not called, at the officials’ discretion. But what WILL always get called by the ref is a slash that breaks a stick. If a player’s stick comes down on the opponents’ stick in a slashing motion where the result is the stick snaps, ref makes the call full stop, even in the playoffs. We all know that’s the way it is. Whether we like it or not. It’s consistent. 
 

This play was the same. He pulled the jersey. Ref saw it. Penalty every time.

Edited February 13, 2023 by Thorny

[LGR4GM]

@Thorny no idea what you're disagreeing with. 

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

@Thorny no idea what you're disagreeing with. 

You alignment with the take I’m currently arguing against 

[LGR4GM]

Just now, Thorny said:

You alignment with the take I’m currently arguing against 

Go look at what I bolded. I think you're missing what I said was the truth. 

[Thorny]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Go look at what I bolded. I think you're missing what I said was the truth. 

Ah. My mistake, thanks for letting me know. Reaction rescinded 

[Thorny]

So, broader convo: is Mahomes now a top 3 QB of all time? I’ve got:

1 Brady

2 Montana

3 Mahomes

..Aikman and Bradshaw have more SBs than Mahomes but...ya. Elway and P. Manning have arguments for #3 as well among others but given his trajectory I have no problem personally slotting Mahomes in at 3. 

[LGR4GM]

30 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ah. My mistake, thanks for letting me know. Reaction rescinded 

I usually try to shorten quotes when I do that for this reason. I forgot though. 

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

I usually try to shorten quotes when I do that for this reason. I forgot though. 

Ya it’s the bolded bits that you can’t see unless you expand the quote that sometimes get me