Attendance issues at whatever our arena is named now

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Weave said:

I’ve been debating about how to reply to your posts here.  This morning it all came together.

I am a Sabres fan.  We never had alot of discretionary income when I was young.  We used to roll up on the Aud at 7:10 and buy whatever tix the scalpers had left at a pretty good discount.  For a short while I had season tix in the oranges.  I couldn’t afford tix at the new arena and ended up only seeing a few games a year live.  I was still a Sabres fan.

When the team became good again around Drury and Briere and Miller I had already cut the cable cord.  We bummed off friends and nursed a beer or two at bars to watch the insane runs.  I was still a Sabres fan.

The last decade plus has severely wounded the fanbase.  This Sabres fan stopped watching.  So how am I a fan?  I still paid attention.  I still kept up on what they were and weren’t doing.  I stayed here and debated with you guys about what was wrong and what was right.  I mostly tuned into until it was unbearable to watch and then I turned it off.  Usually that was before the end of the 1st period.  I still bought merch. But there was no way I was going to pay for a ticket for the crap that’s been on the ice for a decade or more.  Hell, I wasn’t going to pay to watch at home either.  But I still cared.  I was still a Sabres fan.

so, today….. I realized this morning that I haven’t felt compelled to watch something else at all so far this season.  I still respect my sleep schedule, which means I stop watching after 2 periods, but it is not because I am going to watch something more compelling.  Before the Pegulas ruined this team I watched the game and lost sleep on weeknights.  Now, I watch, but I won’t lose sleep over the games.  I’m still a fan.

The process of winning back this fanbase is going to take time.  Even the most devoted of fans lost interest. You can be a dick and proclaim that maybe we should be fans of an AHL team, but the reality is, the Pegulas did this and it is going to take more than 40 or so games to get formerly devoted fans back to being fanatics again.  It may take repeat playoff seasons.  This is what happens when you choose a plan that decimates a team for a decade.  Remember, the Pegulas turned their backs on us first.

I am a fan.  Your condescension can get put in a piss bucket.  You spend your money how you see fit.  I’ll put mine in a better investment until I am convinced that this isn’t a 2018 win streak.

You can do whatever you like and call me names if it makes you feel better. My bottom line is a market like Buffalo has less "cushion" if you will to stay away. People boycott the Knicks. The Knicks aren't leaving New York City. Sabres stop drawing fans and just like that it's a relocation candidate. Now no one has brought up the "R" word but don't kid yourself. This franchise doubles or triples in value if it were in any of a half-dozen potential cities.

And as far as the Pegula hate goes, might as well spew it all now because it's going to be really hard to carry a hard-on for the guy when both teams are winning and well-run. Sorry it took longer than people wanted but he got here.

[Weave]

7 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You can do whatever you like and call me names if it makes you feel better. My bottom line is a market like Buffalo has less "cushion" if you will to stay away. People boycott the Knicks. The Knicks aren't leaving New York City. Sabres stop drawing fans and just like that it's a relocation candidate. Now no one has brought up the "R" word but don't kid yourself. This franchise doubles or triples in value if it were in any of a half-dozen potential cities.

And as far as the Pegula hate goes, might as well spew it all now because it's going to be really hard to carry a hard-on for the guy when both teams are winning and well-run. Sorry it took longer than people wanted but he got here.

You aren’t a victim.  You knew what you were doing with the “you’re not fan enough” trope and the condescension.  Calling it as you intended doesn’t make me feel any better.  Did it make you feel better?

And I won’t be blackmailed by an entertainment venue owner.  If they provide me with entertainment value, I’ll prioritize the money I spend on it accordingly.  If they choose to leave me hanging for a decade, I prioritize that accordingly as well.

As for the Pegulas as victims, meh.  They’ve earned what they’ve received.  They’ll earn what they receive in the future as well.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 minutes ago, Weave said:

You aren’t a victim.  You knew what you were doing with the “you’re not fan enough” trope and the condescension.  Calling it as you intended doesn’t make me feel any better.  Did it make you feel better?

And I won’t be blackmailed by an entertainment venue owner.  If they provide me with entertainment value, I’ll prioritize the money I spend on it accordingly.  If they choose to leave me hanging for a decade, I prioritize that accordingly as well.

As for the Pegulas as victims, meh.  They’ve earned what they’ve received.  They’ll earn what they receive in the future as well.

When the Pegulas bought the Bills in 2014, basically saving the team from moving, I knew he would become the most hated person in WNY because that's how we roll. 

Whatever. I gave my take. I'm done.

[LabattBlue]

22 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

You can do whatever you like and call me names if it makes you feel better. My bottom line is a market like Buffalo has less "cushion" if you will to stay away. People boycott the Knicks. The Knicks aren't leaving New York City. Sabres stop drawing fans and just like that it's a relocation candidate. Now no one has brought up the "R" word but don't kid yourself. This franchise doubles or triples in value if it were in any of a half-dozen potential cities.

And as far as the Pegula hate goes, might as well spew it all now because it's going to be really hard to carry a hard-on for the guy when both teams are winning and well-run. Sorry it took longer than people wanted but he got here.

Longer than people wanted?  In a league where half the teams make the playoffs each season, and this team hasn’t been close to sniffing the group of 16 in a decade plus. 
 

As far as Pegula goes, when the Sabres finally become a playoff team on a regular basis that will be great, but it doesn’t make this train wreck of the last decade disappear. It goes down as by far the worst decade plus in franchise history, and there is no close second. 
 

So continue to stay on your pedestal and scold the fans who currently choose to stay away.  

Edited November 1, 2022 by LabattBlue

[PromoTheRobot]

4 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Longer than people wanted?  In a league where half the teams make the playoffs each season, and this team hasn’t been close to sniffing the group of 16 in a decade plus. 
 

As far as Pegula goes, when the Sabres finally become a playoff team on a regular basis that will be great, but it doesn’t make this train wreck of the last decade disappear. It goes down as by far the worst decade plus in frachise history, and there is no close second. 
 

So continue to stay on your pedestal and scold the fans who currently chose to stay away.  

No it doesn't. But are you really going to carry a grudge when the team is winning? That's sad.

"OMG did you see Tage last night??.  Yeah, that was awesome but thinking about the 11 year playoff drought ruins it for me."

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[LabattBlue]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

No it doesn't. But are you really going to carry a grudge when the team is winning? That's sad.

Did I say carry a grudge?  Don’t put words in my mouth PTR.  I was just saying this past decade won’t just go away as if it didn’t happen.  
 

Just stop already. 

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, LabattBlue said:

Did I say carry a grudge?  Don’t put words in my mouth PTR.  I was just saying this past decade won’t just go away as if it didn’t happen.  
 

Just stop already. 

What do you call harboring ill will over something and not letting it go? Is there another word?

[LabattBlue]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

What do you call harboring ill will over something and not letting it go? Is there another word?

Whatever.  We all suck as fans compared to you.  I will just wait for the day I am cheering for the Buffalo Sabres of the AHL.  
 

In the meantime, you can begin planning the Cup parade. 
 

Carry on. 

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

What do you call harboring ill will over something and not letting it go? Is there another word?

Noone indicated harboring ill will.  That’s a figment of your own projections.

Stating that the decade won’t just go away isn’t about ill will.  It is about recapturing the imagination of people who just stopped making time and budget for the Sabres because they were a tire fire that set a league record for how bad they were for so long.  Most folks move on when they’ve been ignored.  It takes time and acts of good will to recover that.

Unless you are PTR, the one true fan.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 minutes ago, Weave said:

Noone indicated harboring ill will.  That’s a figment of your own projections.

Stating that the decade won’t just go away isn’t about ill will.  It is about recapturing the imagination of people who just stopped making time and budget for the Sabres because they were a tire fire that set a league record for how bad they were for so long.  Most folks move on when they’ve been ignored.  It takes time and acts of good will to recover that.

Unless you are PTR, the one true fan.

Let us know when the ill will has finally been eclipsed with good will. 

[LTS]

Right now the good will is on the players, the coach, and the GM.  The owner has not been forgiven but should not be lauded for what's happened. One could easily argue that the Pegula ownership simply lucked into the right situation in one sport and then decided that might be a good idea in the other sport. When they learned how to step back and let people lead.

I will give them credit when they have steered the organization(s) through the next crisis of a coach or GM leaving.  When they have to do their jobs as owners again. Right now they can sit back and collect on the situations at hand.  Nothing they've done absolves them from what happened before.  I never had the vitriol others had for them but they definitely made some boneheaded decisions and at times certainly demonstrated how tone deaf they were to the fan base. They certainly presided over a long reign of losing.

While having a sports team that is "local" can be nice, it is also a tax burden (as demonstrated by the Bills new stadium). I don't know if I would care if they relocated. It certainly wouldn't feel like the "home" team any longer but there are millions of fans of teams who don't live in the home city of where a team plays. They manage to still be fans. The one thing I would never be is held hostage by some threat of relocation or the thought that I NEED to spend my money on a professional sports franchise.

 

[PerreaultForever]

It's an owner's right to do what they want with a team.

It's a fan's right to hate the owner when they don't do what they want with a team. 

That small group of fans got pretty loud when the 7th goal went in and were pretty happy going home. Have no fear, if the winning continues the support will return. Buffalo was never a gimmick oriented franchise, it had true hockey fans that loved hockey for hockey and not for mascots or cannons and cheer leaders and all the other marketing bs you see around some franchises. People in and around Buffalo love hockey. They just haven't had any hockey worth seeing for a long time. 

As for the Pegulas, maybe they finally have it right, but maybe they just got lucky this time. With so many high draft picks and prospects earned by a decade of futility, it would be kind of hard work to stay useless. Eventually it just has to come together with that many first round picks etc.    I'm still not convinced in any way that they actually know what they are doing. I think they just keep rolling the dice and sometimes it does come up 7. 

There's no secret formula they discovered. I'm not a Bills fan but from what I know their rebuild model was very different from the Sabres current one. Sure, you can draw some comparisons between any tear down start over rebuild type things but imo the path they took is very different. So I'm thinking the Pegulas just got lucky and hired better people this time. In the Sabres case, FINALLY. 

[PromoTheRobot]

6 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's an owner's right to do what they want with a team.

It's a fan's right to hate the owner when they don't do what they want with a team. 

That small group of fans got pretty loud when the 7th goal went in and were pretty happy going home. Have no fear, if the winning continues the support will return. Buffalo was never a gimmick oriented franchise, it had true hockey fans that loved hockey for hockey and not for mascots or cannons and cheer leaders and all the other marketing bs you see around some franchises. People in and around Buffalo love hockey. They just haven't had any hockey worth seeing for a long time. 

As for the Pegulas, maybe they finally have it right, but maybe they just got lucky this time. With so many high draft picks and prospects earned by a decade of futility, it would be kind of hard work to stay useless. Eventually it just has to come together with that many first round picks etc.    I'm still not convinced in any way that they actually know what they are doing. I think they just keep rolling the dice and sometimes it does come up 7. 

There's no secret formula they discovered. I'm not a Bills fan but from what I know their rebuild model was very different from the Sabres current one. Sure, you can draw some comparisons between any tear down start over rebuild type things but imo the path they took is very different. So I'm thinking the Pegulas just got lucky and hired better people this time. In the Sabres case, FINALLY. 

Actually I think the Sabres rebuild is very much based on the Bills success. It hasn't even been much of a teardown. Mainly reinvigorating the core with some key deletions while updating the team culture and philosophy.

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Actually I think the Sabres rebuild is very much based on the Bills success. It hasn't even been much of a teardown. Mainly reinvigorating the core with some key deletions while updating the team culture and philosophy.

Where would the Bills be without the QB?

If the Sabres followed the same model, franchise goalie would have been the first building block. 

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Where would the Bills be without the QB?

If the Sabres followed the same model, franchise goalie would have been the first building block. 

QB and goalie are not analogous.

The similarity comes from how both teams established a culture and removed those who did not fit it. Not to mention develop a long term strategy and stuck with it.

Edited November 1, 2022 by PromoTheRobot

[BMWR100RT]

20 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

QB and goalie are not analogous.

The similarity comes from how both teams established a culture and removed those who did not fit it. Not to mention develop a long term strategy and such with it.

I liked KA's "Who wants to be here?" mindset. The malcontents seem to be gone. 

[Thorny]

The Yotes are playing on a renovated table hockey surface. 

Sabres aren’t going to relocate in your lifetime 

At the very least not in Bettman’s

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, Weave said:

Noone indicated harboring ill will.  That’s a figment of your own projections.

Stating that the decade won’t just go away isn’t about ill will.  It is about recapturing the imagination of people who just stopped making time and budget for the Sabres because they were a tire fire that set a league record for how bad they were for so long.  Most folks move on when they’ve been ignored.  It takes time and acts of good will to recover that.

Unless you are PTR, the one true fan.

Such a good point. I’ve totally felt this - being a fan isn’t just a mindset, it’s also muscle memory. 

It’’s a relationship. Of course there are rocky times. Personally there have been moments over the last decade, especially over the more recent years of that stretch, where I’ve had to work *really* hard on trying to keep that fire. The loyalty has always, will always be there. I’ll always love them. But the PASSION, of course it’s ebbs. Any relationship. 

But it also flows. I’m still working on my relationship with this team, as always, but it’s sure getting easier. And soon, through practice and hard work, the muscle memory will return, too. 

Trust the process. We are allowing that mindset to the team, correct? 

Why not da fans.

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

When the Pegulas bought the Bills in 2014, basically saving the team from moving, I knew he would become the most hated person in WNY because that's how we roll. 

Whatever. I gave my take. I'm done.

That is a nonsensical delusional response that fits your "blame the fans" narrative when anyone crticizes the owner and hockey operation. With respect to the hockey situation there isn't an owner in any professional sport who wouldn't be harshly criticized for a decade of futility. You have read my posts for the past number of years. I'm not in the negative camp because I do believe that this franchise is on the right track with an upcoming roster and a strong hockey operation. But your tendency to automatically smear those who are understandably in the skeptical camp is predictable and tiresome. 

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Actually I think the Sabres rebuild is very much based on the Bills success. It hasn't even been much of a teardown. Mainly reinvigorating the core with some key deletions while updating the team culture and philosophy.

I'm sorry but how is ditching Eichel, Reinhart and Ristolainen NOT a tear down??????? It most definitely is. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by PerreaultForever

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

QB and goalie are not analogous.

The similarity comes from how both teams established a culture and removed those who did not fit it. Not to mention develop a long term strategy and stuck with it.

But they are. 

Look, the 2 sports are very different with different dynamics so it's hard to draw a total comparison but the one position in football that can totally shift a team's fortune is QB. Look at the Steelers without Roethlisberger. Absolute rubbish.  Look what Brady did for Tampa (before he over stayed his age). Who are the two franchise QBs in the AFC? Mahones and your guy and surprise surprise, they're the best 2 teams. Take the QBs away and those teams are not in any way the same. 

In hockey, the one position that can totally shift a team's fortunes is goalie. Any Buffalo fan should be well aware of that fact after the Hasek years no? 

As for the culture, well I've been talking about that for years and years and have often been mocked for it on this board. I was one of the first to say we needed to tear down and move on from the tandem bike duo. We finally did. I think in Pegula terms more out of exhaustion with them rather than a great new plan. "Build with the draft" hardly a new or revolutionary idea.

Edited November 2, 2022 by PerreaultForever

[OverPowerYou]

I spent too much money back in the day paying to watch Drew Stafford and Jochen Hecht that I don’t think I’d go unless they are guaranteed a playoff spot in the standings late in the year. May I also add, I’d go to games if they made a trade for a household name player

Edited November 2, 2022 by OverPowerYou

[JohnC]

16 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Actually I think the Sabres rebuild is very much based on the Bills success. It hasn't even been much of a teardown. Mainly reinvigorating the core with some key deletions while updating the team culture and philosophy.

On this issue I agree with you that Adams followed the rebuild strategy that Beane/McDermott with the football team . That shouldn't be surprising because KA has on more than a few occasions said that he has talked with the football GM about the best approach to building a successful team. The Beane/McDermott approach goes beyond simply acquiring talent. They stressed getting the right people and establishing the right culture where the internal team dynamic/leadership holds everyone together. This concept of getting the right mix of people in the locker room wasn't new to him because he experienced it with his cup teams with Carolina and I believe Calgary?

As you point out KA didn't dramatically tear down the roster. He changed the core by replacing the old core with players already on the roster. To his credit he was judicious in deciding who to keep and who to dispatch. And in general he got a fair return for the players that were being dealt. 

 

[Thwomp!]

Like it or not, "superfans", but it's gonna take awhile for the regular fans to come back.  11+ years of embarrassing play on the ice, tone-deaf ownership who has not cared much about the fans, and we're still a cap floor team with suspect goaltending that really isn't trying too hard to win too soon.

And no, 30 games last year where they played kinda well but were already out of contention, and a 6-3 start this year are not enough to declare our suffering over.  Most are ready to anoint Adams and Granato saviors, but neither has accomplished anything yet.  If we can get a half season where we're playing well and battling for the playoffs, the arena will come to life.

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I'm sorry but how is ditching Eichel, Reinhart and Ristolainen NOT a tear down??????? It most definitely is. 

Because we're still had Tage, Dahlin, Skinner, Cozens, Okposo, Mittelstadt, etc. We didn't tear it down to the studs. We got rid of the rodents.

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

But they are. 

Look, the 2 sports are very different with different dynamics so it's hard to draw a total comparison but the one position in football that can totally shift a team's fortune is QB. Look at the Steelers without Roethlisberger. Absolute rubbish.  Look what Brady did for Tampa (before he over stayed his age). Who are the two franchise QBs in the AFC? Mahones and your guy and surprise surprise, they're the best 2 teams. Take the QBs away and those teams are not in any way the same. 

In hockey, the one position that can totally shift a team's fortunes is goalie. Any Buffalo fan should be well aware of that fact after the Hasek years no? 

As for the culture, well I've been talking about that for years and years and have often been mocked for it on this board. I was one of the first to say we needed to tear down and move on from the tandem bike duo. We finally did. I think in Pegula terms more out of exhaustion with them rather than a great new plan. "Build with the draft" hardly a new or revolutionary idea.

I don't agree but whatever.