Official Sabres Acquire Ben Bishop and a 2022 7th Rounder for Future Considerations

[JohnC]

14 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

The only logical reason they'd make this move is to get to the floor without really getting to the floor. Until there is any indication otherwise, I think there's plenty of reason for pessimism.

With all the cap room I was really hoping they'd give MAF a 2 or 3 year offer he couldn't refuse. 1 year to be the #1, then another 1-2 years to mentor Levi. I guess that isn't happening.

What has changed after taking on the Bishop contract? Nothing. How about waiting to see if the GM is able to address some of our critical needs this offseason? What if the Sabres are able to sign Toronto's GT, Campbell, this offseason or a comparable talent? Does that change how you view this Bishop transaction that most likely is an inconsequential transaction? 

As I said in prior posts how much of the cap is used is not a measure of success or failure. Ultimately, the critical issue comes down to making a few judicious moves that addresses some of our critical needs, such as goalie and another defenseman. Let's just stop making dire predictions based on a less than consequential transaction.   

[tom webster]

1 minute ago, JohnC said:

What has changed after taking on the Bishop contract? Nothing. How about waiting to see if the GM is able to address some of our critical needs this offseason? What if the Sabres are able to sign Toronto's GT, Campbell, this offseason or a comparable talent? Does that change how you view this Bishop transaction that most likely is an inconsequential transaction? 

As I said in prior posts how much of the cap is used is not a measure of success or failure. Ultimately, the critical issue comes down to making a few judicious moves that addresses some of our critical needs, such as goalie and another defenseman. Let's just stop making dire predictions based on a less than consequential transaction.   

Exactly. They never were going all the way to the ceiling. They essentially got an extra pick for a little cash. Simple math days the more picks you have the better the chances you strike gold. This trade doesn’t prohibit them from doing anything they want to do this off-season.

[Doohickie]

5 hours ago, Curt said:

How much the Sabres are willing to spend on player salary probably is not KA’s decision.

I disagree.  He might need to go to ownership for a final signoff but at this point I expect that to be more of a courtesy to the Pegulas than anything else.  As far as running the Sabres goes, this is Kevyn's team.

[JohnC]

1 minute ago, tom webster said:

Exactly. They never were going all the way to the ceiling. They essentially got an extra pick for a little cash. Simple math days the more picks you have the better the chances you strike gold. This trade doesn’t prohibit them from doing anything they want to do this off-season.

Considering where this team is in its roster construction and the contracts that they will have to address in a few years I would argue that it would not make sense to spend at or near the camp this season and maybe the next season. It seems that this GM has an understanding of the cycle of a rebuild and what to do and not do and how much to pay and not pay at particular points in this cycle. No one has to agree with everything that he has done but it can't be denied that there is a rationality and coherency to what he is doing that makes sense. 

[Doohickie]

5 hours ago, Taro T said:

it's at least a single unless it is literally a "for future considerations" move.

So... not even a single.  Let's see how the inning works out; maybe we can call it a productive out.

5 hours ago, dudacek said:

I sure hope it’s more than a Boychuk move.

Meh.  It's just a Boychuk move.

[JoeSchmoe]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

What has changed after taking on the Bishop contract? Nothing. How about waiting to see if the GM is able to address some of our critical needs this offseason? What if the Sabres are able to sign Toronto's GT, Campbell, this offseason or a comparable talent? Does that change how you view this Bishop transaction that most likely is an inconsequential transaction? 

As I said in prior posts how much of the cap is used is not a measure of success or failure. Ultimately, the critical issue comes down to making a few judicious moves that addresses some of our critical needs, such as goalie and another defenseman. Let's just stop making dire predictions based on a less than consequential transaction.   

If the team plans on spending to the cap floor by acquiring legit hockey players, this move would be  purely a waste of money (unless you want to try to convince me they paid the $1million-something cash for a 7th round pick).

The stark reality is it's clear KA made the move to get to the floor without actually getting to the floor.

All this while the price of oil and gas are cranking through the roof. Cheers to the Pegula lifestyle!!!

 

[Doohickie]

4 hours ago, Brawndo said:

 

Bold prediction:  The player selected with that pick will score a Stanley Cup winning goal for the Buffalo Sabres.  (Hey I was right about Tage.... think about it.)

[Doohickie]

4 hours ago, dudacek said:

unless there’s another shoe to drop.

Lots of shoes will drop this summer. 

[Carmel Corn]

So if we ignore the 7th rounder coming back to us.....my general question is how is today's deal better than signing a $5 million unrestricted free agent for 1 year?  I know there's a thought that the team doesn't want to impede our young talent's playing time next season, but having an asset (player) vs. Bishop at least means we get something for something (vs. nothing for something).  I realize there is still more cap space for UFA's too

[Huckleberry]

Just re-affirms my believes that next off-season is their target, they want  a shot at michkov/bedard still. 

Meanwhile evaluate the kids some more and give them room to grow.

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

 

The sound track of that clip is superb, one might even say divine.

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

I'm being lazy.  So do the Sabres actually pay his salary for 22-23, or is it just a cap space transaction?

They pay his salary, but likely just a small fraction of it compared to the actual cap hit.  His compensation this year is $3.5 million but his cap hit is $4.9 million.  Assuming LTIR the majority of that would be paid by insurance to they'll probably pay Bishop less than a mil.

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

And this is the opposite of the owners being cheap.  They literally paid over $3MM for an extra 7th round pick.

No, not necessarily.  If most of his salary is paid by insurance due to LTIR, it will be less an a mil.

3 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Also, does he count as one of the 50 contracts or whatever the max contract number is?

That he does.

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, Thwomp! said:

We're not even spending to get to the cap FLOOR. Would that be too much to ask? Rather than becoming Coyote east?

He bought 4.9 million in cap for probably 1 million in actual dollars. And that 4.9 will be used to get to the floor. I'd bet on it.

Kevyn really is handing the car keys to the kids with the new licenses.  He trusts them.  It may not pay off this year, but it might down the road.

3 hours ago, FogBat said:

My first reaction: 

Tru dat.

[Doohickie]

3 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Dude!!

No ones here is gonna know who you's talkin' 'bout except fellow hosers, eh!!

lol !!

Perhaps but here are quite a few of us geezers on the forum.  Right @PASabreFan?

3 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

Isn't insurance going to be paying?

Spoken like a True Accountant™

[Huckleberry]

2 hours ago, thewookie1 said:

Alright, this is what I mean by making our cap more valuable.

With Bishop on IR, we are still 14mil under the cap. As long as we are beneath the cap; teams won't be quite as willing to bribe the Sabres to eat cap as we'd need cap. Essentially we end up in the same situation as we did in the Boychuk trade with us needing cap just to hit the floor thus we held little leverage.

After signing:

Olofsson 4x5mil

Bryson 2x1.85mil

UPL 2x1.5mil (300k in Rochester)

And all the other random guys whom don't hit the cap; we still need another 7mil in cap. However, now we are within a couple signings of getting to the floor. No longer would the Sabres need to sign Gaudreau to 14mil just to get close to the cap floor with 1 signing. Or 2 7mil signings. 

Now if you spend 7mil on Comrie and DeSmith for instance on matching 2x3.25/3.75 respective contracts and to play it safe, Subban at 3x4mil you are still sitting with 15mil + in cap space and that's with Bjork at your 14th F and no 7th Dman (R2 is 13th F with 1mil contract)

 

At that point you only need 1 Dman and everything else can be left free if desired. Thus forcing other teams to pay us to eat their other cap dumps

Just a look at an AGM https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/3322124

I think if you want to add more short term CAP, you deal with panthers, then again Hornqvist has a M-NTC.

[Doohickie]

2 hours ago, Contempt said:

I would think a 7th round choice would cost less than 3.5M if you tried to outright buy one from a team.

Except the NHL doesn't allow cash transactions.  And it's likely that 75% of that will be paid by insurance.

2 hours ago, Trettioåtta said:

I’m surprised we only got a seventh. Sure we need to get to the cap floor but Dallas just paid a seventh for like 7% more cap space in a stagnant cap eta. That’s a bargain 

No because assuming Bishop goes on LTIR he wouldn't be eating cap space anyway.

Edited June 11, 2022 by Doohickie

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I was really hoping they'd give MAF a 2 or 3 year offer he couldn't refuse. 1 year to be the #1, then another 1-2 years to mentor Levi. I guess that isn't happening.

How does this deal preclude that?  It doesn't.

On the other hand, MAF will have options and even if Kevyn offers $10 million, MAF may choose to play on a legit contender for less.  So it's not like Kevyn should be banking on landing MAF.  This deal gives him some cap insurance if no player allows him to make that big splashy deal.  If he does and for whatever reason the Sabres go over the cap, Bishop's contract will not count due to LTIR.

[GoPuckYourself]

Im all for free draft picks, I truly don't believe the Sabres are going to do anything big this off-season. I know most fans are going to hate it but I think it will be another year for the kids to grow, we'll add Quinn, possibly Peterka, UPL to the lineup. Probably overpay for a defensemen on a 3-4 year deal, Just my opinions.

Let these guys all gel and form a nice young core then add to the core next off-season. If nothing else a goalie upgrade needs to happen, not sure how the Sabres will pull it off or if they can but it will be interesting to see what they do there or do we just bring back Anderson.

[Doohickie]

40 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said:

So if we ignore the 7th rounder coming back to us.....my general question is how is today's deal better than signing a $5 million unrestricted free agent for 1 year?  I know there's a thought that the team doesn't want to impede our young talent's playing time next season, but having an asset (player) vs. Bishop at least means we get something for something (vs. nothing for something).  I realize there is still more cap space for UFA's too

Name a name.  Which UFA worth $5 million will want to come here on a one-year contract?  And if that hypothetical player did gel and become a big contributor, how do pay him AND the young players who will (hopefully) be demanding big money on new contracts?

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

Not what I had in mind when I hear weaponizing cap space…

[Thwomp!]

Next year is going to look hopefully marginally better than this year. But it's going to be another year of only half assed competing, imo.

Also, how does this penny pinching BS look to the guys we want to sign? Particularly Johnson and Portillo. Good thing Levi is young, or he'd be thinking about options too.

[Cozenscousin]

16 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Name a name.  Which UFA worth $5 million will want to come here on a one-year contract?  And if that hypothetical player did gel and become a big contributor, how do pay him AND the young players who will (hopefully) be demanding big money on new contracts?

Good point. They will have quite a few ELCs on the books when Peterka and Quinn are almost certainly on the big squad. I think the team will try hard to make the playoffs. Hopefully this will be the last year they have a top 10 draft pick for many years to come. 

[JoeSchmoe]

44 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

How does this deal preclude that?  It doesn't.

It's because they wouldn't spend the $1million+ for a 7th round pick if the plan was to spend above the floor anyways. 

Edit: you might be right that this COULD be insurance, it's more likely this is your classic Coyote move.

Edited June 11, 2022 by JoeSchmoe

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

I disagree.  He might need to go to ownership for a final signoff but at this point I expect that to be more of a courtesy to the Pegulas than anything else.  As far as running the Sabres goes, this is Kevyn's team.

All owners set the player budget, most GMs get to allocate it.

Most owners also approve any significant long-term contracts. Some (certainly Terry) will sometimes direct their GMs to spend more than that GM wanted, or chase players that owner wanted (Leino, Ehrhoff, Eichel, Skinner, Girgensons).

 

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

So... not even a single.  Let's see how the inning works out; maybe we can call it a productive out.

Meh.  It's just a Boychuk move.

 Yep.

2 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

So if we ignore the 7th rounder coming back to us.....my general question is how is today's deal better than signing a $5 million unrestricted free agent for 1 year?  I know there's a thought that the team doesn't want to impede our young talent's playing time next season, but having an asset (player) vs. Bishop at least means we get something for something (vs. nothing for something).  I realize there is still more cap space for UFA's too

$5 million 1-year contracts are exceedingly rare: few 1-year players deserve $5 million, few $5 million players deserve 1 year. There must have been a good, pricey 1-year contract given to attract a free agent at some point, but Taylor Hall wasn’t one, and I can’t think of another.

Adams has basically chosen to invest approximately $1 million in real money in a 7th rounder in order to make sure he doesn’t risk having to pay an Andrej Meszaros $5 million to suck like Tim Murray did. But he’s still left the door wide open to sign a worthwhile player to that deal if that opportunity presents itself.

The reason he wants that insurance policy is that his NHL roster was almost full and he was about $19 million under the cap floor. After he re-signs Bryson and Olofsson and promotes Quinn and Peterka he has room on his roster to add a starting goalie (going rate $5 million) a 2nd-pair D ($4 million), 1 backup goalie ($1.5 million), 1 depth forward ($1.5 million) and a spare defenceman ($1 million). That might get him to the floor, but Bishop absolutely makes sure he’s over and has the flexibility to make the moves he wants for players he wants and prices they deserve.

His issue is he has got an inordinate number of players on cheap 1st and 2nd contracts that he is planning on playing next year and he wants to retain flexibility to give those players raises in the coming years.

Sure he could, say, add a Taylor Hall type big name as well, and send Bjork, or Peterka or Quinn to the minors to make room, but I don’t think he thinks that’s the best thing for the organization. He wants Quinn and Peterka playing.

But if, by chance, a better fit on a long term deal becomes available and changes Adams’ mind, nothing about Bishop is stopping him from making that deal.

Bishop is cheap insurance designed to make sure Adams enters the summer not worrying about the cap floor now, or in any future deals leading up to the trade deadline.

Edited June 11, 2022 by dudacek

[DarthEbriate]

54 minutes ago, Thwomp! said:

Next year is going to look hopefully marginally better than this year. But it's going to be another year of only half assed competing, imo.

Also, how does this penny pinching BS look to the guys we want to sign? Particularly Johnson and Portillo. Good thing Levi is young, or he'd be thinking about options too.

For the goalies this contract has no bearing... Bishop isn't blocking either Portillo or Levi. Either of them still has an open path to AHL playing time and perhaps the quickest road to an NHL gig in the entire league for a goalie prospect. They'd all have to sign ELCs here or anywhere regardless.

As for enticing UFAs, this deal is fine. There's still plenty of money to overpay anyone.