Dylan Cozens: naive kid, or culture change spokesman

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, inkman said:

I’ve been here, most of the last two decades.  If what has happened the last 12 months hasn’t moved the needle for ya, you may be farther down the path than I ever have.  
 

Cozens, Mitts, Power, Quinn, Krebs, Samuelsson, Dahlin, Olofsson, Peterka, Johnson, UPL, Levi, Portillo, a slew of draft picks from last season who look great, another big haul of picks coming this season.  I’m amped. Being in Rochester, watching all the kids, certainly makes it more tangible for me.  I understand skepticism, I’m practically made of it.  I’m finally feeling positivity exuding from this franchise since 05-07 days (not that I was enamored with that team as they were small and got abused).  

You got a lot of likes for this optimistic post but I'm wondering if the Tampa game maybe brought you a little further on down the road to where I am? 

Cause for me that was it, that's what was "on the ice" and that's what we are. Nothing. 

4 hours ago, bunomatic said:

I’m right there with you but I am mining a few nuggets of hopium out of guys like the mighty Quinn and JJ P.

That's fair, but I'd guess the Tampa game didn't help.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, PerreaultForever said:

You got a lot of likes for this optimistic post but I'm wondering if the Tampa game maybe brought you a little further on down the road to where I am? 

Cause for me that was it, that's what was "on the ice" and that's what we are. Nothing. 

Don't really think 1 game should/would cause someone to shift what I'd assume is a well-formed stance 

[PerreaultForever]

Just now, Thorny said:

Don't really think 1 game should/would cause someone to shift what I'd assume is a well-formed stance 

No of course one game won't shift anything, and he watched Rochester a lot so he sees success at that level. I remember that happening before though, and it didn't translate to the NHL level so I take it with a big old grain of salt. 

One game definitely is just one game, but it did show examples of everything I'm talking about. 

[bunomatic]

28 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

You got a lot of likes for this optimistic post but I'm wondering if the Tampa game maybe brought you a little further on down the road to where I am? 

Cause for me that was it, that's what was "on the ice" and that's what we are. Nothing. 

That's fair, but I'd guess the Tampa game didn't help.

Hehe nope. 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

No of course one game won't shift anything, and he watched Rochester a lot so he sees success at that level. I remember that happening before though, and it didn't translate to the NHL level so I take it with a big old grain of salt. 

One game definitely is just one game, but it did show examples of everything I'm talking about. 

It's been a very long time since Ra-cha-cha was both successful & a lot of the success was due to the kids.  Yes, the Mersch line has been good, but Quinn & Peterka & now Krebs have been big contributors.  Samuelsson & Fitzgerald have been the top pair & UPL was their best goalie (after Dell had his callup, before that he was a disaster).

The past couple of times they were good it seemed more AHL vet driven.  (Didn't really follow the Amerks THAT closely though until last season.  So, will freely admit that perception may be off.)

[PerreaultForever]

33 minutes ago, Taro T said:

It's been a very long time since Ra-cha-cha was both successful & a lot of the success was due to the kids.  Yes, the Mersch line has been good, but Quinn & Peterka & now Krebs have been big contributors.  Samuelsson & Fitzgerald have been the top pair & UPL was their best goalie (after Dell had his callup, before that he was a disaster).

The past couple of times they were good it seemed more AHL vet driven.  (Didn't really follow the Amerks THAT closely though until last season.  So, will freely admit that perception may be off.)

Well with 11 losses they're not all that, but I get ya, it looks more promising than it has in the past. I mean with all the high picks you'd hope so right? Long overdue. I will be interested to see how they do in the playoffs though. I'd assume we'd let them have most of the kids as the Sabres will be long dead by then. See what they can do then. 

[dudacek]

There haven’t been, for me, many games that felt like tonight this year - games where it just seemed like the skaters were totally outclassed and were never in it from start to finish.

Before tonight, there have been 9 games where the Sabres have lost by more than 2, and 7 of those were in that 3-week span when Tokarski’s bubble burst and Subban and Dell couldn’t stop a soap bubble.

Tonight felt too much like most of the past decade.

It could be a bit of turning point - wake-up call for a team crippled by illness, injury and inactivity (4 games in the past 24 nights), or a signpost marking where another ragtag collection of fringe skaters put up the white flag on the season.

[Derrico]

9 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

You got a lot of likes for this optimistic post but I'm wondering if the Tampa game maybe brought you a little further on down the road to where I am? 

Cause for me that was it, that's what was "on the ice" and that's what we are. Nothing. 

That's fair, but I'd guess the Tampa game didn't help.

One game man.  One game.  Those high on the Hopi meter still realize we’re not talking about one game where 10 guys were out with Covid.  We’re looking at probably a calendar year from now and much further down the road the one game.

Edited January 12, 2022 by Derrico

[GoPuckYourself]

I'd have to say he genuinely believes that and you can just look at the Rochester Americans who are 2nd in the division and that he's seen many of them first hand.

[inkman]

Granato and Cozens waxing poetic before last nights game was probably fate. They tell the fanbase things are going to be ok, they know who we have in the org and what is on the way.  Sounded optimistic and genuine.  Then get smoked, albeit missing half your players, is just a bad look. The whiner line guy can’t dial WGR fast enough to complain about how much the team sucks, there is no hope, blah blah blah.  This team desperately needs to get healthy and go on a run. 

[Thorny]

People remember that Rochester finished 3rd overall in 18-19, right?

On the backs of promising prospects like Victor Olofsson, Rasmus Asplund, Alex Nylander, Brendan Guhle, Pilut, Bailey, Will Borgen, even Tage Thompson with a few. 

Edited January 12, 2022 by Thorny

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Derrico said:

One game man.  One game.  Those high on the Hopi meter still realize we’re not talking about one game where 10 guys were out with Covid.  We’re looking at probably a calendar year from now and much further down the road the one game.

But it's not "one game". We have 19 losses on the season and a win percentage of .371 which is 5 from the bottom.  That's only an improvement of .4 from last year's .330 percentage. And that's a big drop from where we were at the year before when we were horrible at .493  

reality check:

Dan Bylsma had us at a win percentage of .485 and he was hated and fired.

Housley had a win percentage of .421 and was fired as a failure.

Ralph was .433 and he was the worst ever according to some.

Now Granato's the savior and his win percentage is .375    and winning is just right around the corner right?

Perhaps people have just been conditioned to accept losing as acceptable. As has the team. 

Or as Johnny Rotten said "ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"

[Weave]

Holy crap, I didn’t realize the win % trend was consistently downward still.

Ugh.

[Thorny]

I don't like to go here, but does anyone think there's a chance that Strength of Division, as it stands currently, in any way factored into the timeline of the chosen rebuild path?

[dudacek]

I don’t see the point in making the Sabres record this year a talking point. Is there anyone out there who does not think the Sabres have been dressing some of our worst rosters since the tank this year?

I mean seriously, they entered the season with their most proven players being Olofsson, Skinner and Miller, plus a bunch of kids and $750,000 JAGs, in front of a career minor leaguer and a 40-year-old pulled out of retirement.

Adams team is Mittelstadt, Thompson, Cozens, Krebs, Tuch, Quinn, Peterka, Dahlin, Jokiharju, Bryson, Samuelsson, Power, UPL and the fruits of the 2021-23 drafts. It might suck too, but you haven’t seen it yet.

Edited January 12, 2022 by dudacek

[Sabres Fan in NS]

Just now, dudacek said:

I don’t see the point in making the Sabres record this year a talking point. Is there anyone out there who does not think the Sabres have been dressing some of our worst rosters since the tank this year?

I mean seriously, they entered the season with their most proven players being Olofsson, Skinner and Miller, plus a bunch of kids and $750,000 JAGs, in front of a career minor leaguer and a 40-year-old pulled out of retirement.

Adams team is Mittelstadt, Thompson, Cozens, Krebs, Tuch, Quinn, Peterka, Dahlin, Jokiharju, Bryson, Samuelsson, Power, UPL and the fruits of the 2021-23 drafts. It might suck too, but you haven’t seen it yet.

I would lump Levi in with that group.  Levi seems to be really something, at least in College hockey.  We shall see soon what he has to offer in the NHL, if anything.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I don’t see the point in making the Sabres record this year a talking point. Is there anyone out there who does not think the Sabres have been dressing some of our worst rosters since the tank this year?

I mean seriously, they entered the season with their most proven players being Olofsson, Skinner and Miller, plus a bunch of kids and $750,000 JAGs, in front of a career minor leaguer and a 40-year-old pulled out of retirement.

Adams team is Mittelstadt, Thompson, Cozens, Krebs, Tuch, Quinn, Peterka, Dahlin, Jokiharju, Bryson, Samuelsson, Power, UPL and the fruits of the 2021-23 drafts. It might suck too, but you haven’t seen it yet.

I guess it depends on how you frame it. 

A) is there a middle ground? Is it possible that it's ok for the record to be poor, yet it reach such a level that it somehow still becomes disappointing? With all context included, could we not have hoped for more? Actually asking. 

B) from the perspective of what the record *could* have been had Adams not gone so full-on rebuild? And whether or not that may have been a better course of action? Like I suppose we could say, what's done is done, this is the pathway. But I see no reason why debating the strategy itself doesn't make for an interesting discussion. 

Indeed, I've said all along that I can find quite a few positives for Adams *within the context* of his chosen strategy, yet be outright opposed to the strategy itself. There's a distinction there and I think there are interesting discussions to be had on either end of it

[dudacek]

38 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I guess it depends on how you frame it. 

A) is there a middle ground? Is it possible that it's ok for the record to be poor, yet it reach such a level that it somehow still becomes disappointing? With all context included, could we not have hoped for more? Actually asking. 

B) from the perspective of what the record *could* have been had Adams not gone so full-on rebuild? And whether or not that may have been a better course of action? Like I suppose we could say, what's done is done, this is the pathway. But I see no reason why debating the strategy itself doesn't make for an interesting discussion. 

Indeed, I've said all along that I can find quite a few positives for Adams *within the context* of his chosen strategy, yet be outright opposed to the strategy itself. There's a distinction there and I think there are interesting discussions to be had on either end of it

By all means debate the merits of the strategy. I’m framing my take in the context of those who say our record this year reveals something about Adams hockey judgement.

Let’s be serious.

In the context of this year’s team, he dumped last years entire first line - Hall, Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen, McCabe and Ullmark - for 2 part-time NHLers and a guy expected to miss half the season with an injury. He slashed the payroll by $30 million, refused to sign anyone for more than minimum wage 1-year deals, and is barely at the cap floor.

There was no intention of actively trying to improve the team’s record this year. None. Ever.

Edited January 12, 2022 by dudacek

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I’m framing in the context of those who say our record this year is proof of what a bad GM Adams is.

Let’s be serious.

In the context of this year’s team, he dumped last years entire first line - Hall, Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen, McCabe and Ullmark - for 2 part-time NHLers and a guy expected to miss half the season with an injury. He slashed the payroll by $30 million, refused to sign anyone for more than minimum wage 1-year deals, and is barely at the cap floor.

There was no intention of actively trying to improve the team’s record this year. None. Ever.

 

Oh, ok. 

It's not. 

[dudacek]

5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Oh, ok. 

It's not. 

Bah, I’ve been trying to edit it because I’m not expressing myself well.

You can say he’s a bad GM for not trying to improve the roster this year, but you can’t say he’s a bad GM because he failed to improve the roster this year. You can’t fail at something that never was your goal in the first place..

The goal for this year is to keep the room positive, develop and protect the kids, and minimize costs while adding another high draft pick.

Edited January 12, 2022 by dudacek

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

But it's not "one game". We have 19 losses on the season and a win percentage of .371 which is 5 from the bottom.  That's only an improvement of .4 from last year's .330 percentage. And that's a big drop from where we were at the year before when we were horrible at .493  

reality check:

Dan Bylsma had us at a win percentage of .485 and he was hated and fired.

Housley had a win percentage of .421 and was fired as a failure.

Ralph was .433 and he was the worst ever according to some.

Now Granato's the savior and his win percentage is .375    and winning is just right around the corner right?

Perhaps people have just been conditioned to accept losing as acceptable. As has the team. 

Or as Johnny Rotten said "ever get the feeling you've been cheated?"

Lol what bs

17 minutes ago, dudacek said:

By all means debate the merits of the strategy. I’m framing my take in the context of those who say our record this year reveals something about Adams hockey judgement.

Let’s be serious.

In the context of this year’s team, he dumped last years entire first line - Hall, Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen, McCabe and Ullmark - for 2 part-time NHLers and a guy expected to miss half the season with an injury. He slashed the payroll by $30 million, refused to sign anyone for more than minimum wage 1-year deals, and is barely at the cap floor.

There was no intention of actively trying to improve the team’s record this year. None. Ever.

Bingo

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Bah, I’ve been trying to edit it because I’m not expressing myself well.

You can say he’s a bad GM for not trying to improve the roster this year, but you can’t say he’s a bad GM because he failed to improve the roster. You can’t fail if you don’t try.

I agree totally and take your meaning.

I'm biased against the strategy. Have laid that out there fair-and-square since it's inception. Until I see positive results the negatives will hold weight for me because I'm not inclined to believe in the macro, and they fit my already established opinion. I wouldn't even say he's a bad GM for taking this course of action - it's only my own view that it's a poorly chosen course - he'll have to be judged on what it amounts to, in most cases. 

Within the context of what he's trying to do, he'd get mostly passing grades from me. I think goaltending is an exception that presents a little wiggle room. 

[Brawndo]

 

[PerreaultForever]

8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Lol what bs

Bingo

Simple facts. You're the big numbers guy, and those are the numbers.  Have a nice day. 

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, Thorny said:

I don't like to go here, but does anyone think there's a chance that Strength of Division, as it stands currently, in any way factored into the timeline of the chosen rebuild path?

Well, the funny thing about that is if you go back to last year you'll see quite a few people talking about how hard that realigned division was and how it'd be better when we get back to our normal division.