Shopping Jack Eichel: Los Angeles

[darksabre]

44 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Oh Hello 

[sabresparaavida]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Idk how I feel about Vilardi but I would be curious to at least continue talking to LA with a base package of 8oa, Turcotte, and Vilardi. 

Vilardi I think projects out to a 2C. He’s 21 and produced a little under .5 PPG, and that’s with a large dry spell in the middle. If he can produce like he did sans the dry spell, and improve a little, him, Turcotte, and 8 OA (Guenther? Wallestedt?) would add to our prospect pool quite nicely.

[Brawndo]

13 minutes ago, Thorny said:

yep, i'm not seeing a huge gap with the Anaheim deal, tbh. 3 to 8 is a bit of a drop but they may feel comfortable with a few players in that area, I'd have to assume they were if they made this deal. Turcotte and Vilardi is a step up in value over Comtois I'd say. Guess it depends what else is in the Anaheim deal. But these two don't seem that far apart  

Power and Eklund, Comtois, Dostal and Perrault/Lacombe is a little better than Power and Johnson, Turcotte, Vilardi and Iafello for example 

[Thorny]

Just now, Brawndo said:

Power and Eklund, Comtois, Dostal and Perrault/Lacombe is a little better than Power and Johnson, Turcotte, Vilardi and Iafello for example 

Ya true but you can go Eklund Johnson which may not be a step down from Power Eklund at all

I'd be happy to add a high ceiling center to go along with the better, high ceiling winger

I don't care THAT much for the mid-ceiling d-man

[Thorny]

If we are shipping out Eichel AND Reinhart, our top 2 centres, we'd probably need to bring in more than 2 to "replace" them, as we need a few bullets. Bringing in Johnson, Turcotte, and Vilardi all while adding the best forward in the draft looks OK to me. 

It could be the difference between trying to hammer out 2 top 6 centres (or 3 top 9 centres) from Johnson, Vilardi, Turcotte, Cozens, and Mittelstadt, and trying to hammer 2 top 6 centres out from Cozens and Mittelstadt. 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

Not a big fan of vilardi

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

yep, i'm not seeing a huge gap with the Anaheim deal, tbh. 3 to 8 is a bit of a drop but they may feel comfortable with a few players in that area, I'd have to assume they were if they made this deal. Turcotte and Vilardi is a step up in value over Comtois I'd say. Guess it depends what else is in the Anaheim deal. But these two don't seem that far apart  

Player over position to me.

Comtois is head and shoulders over Villardi to me. Comtois is that gritty two-way top six winger we are in desperate need of. He is the only proven player with upside being talked about. Turcotte might be better, might not. I like his game, but I’m not sold on his ceiling.

3OA to me means a good chance of Beniers/Eklund. There’s no way we get that with 8.

57 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Not a big fan of vilardi

Same. He’s probably going to be similar role, worse player than Casey.

[Marvin]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

If we are shipping out Eichel AND Reinhart, our top 2 centres, we'd probably need to bring in more than 2 to "replace" them, as we need a few bullets. Bringing in Johnson, Turcotte, and Vilardi all while adding the best forward in the draft looks OK to me. 

It could be the difference between trying to hammer out 2 top 6 centres (or 3 top 9 centres) from Johnson, Vilardi, Turcotte, Cozens, and Mittelstadt, and trying to hammer 2 top 6 centres out from Cozens and Mittelstadt. 

Assuming that Eichel and Reinhart are gone, I think we should look for 2 high-quality defencive possession centres to anchor the bottom 6; assuming that you call Asplund-Mittlestadt-Thompson and Skinner-Cozens-Ruotsalainen the top 6 offencively.  I want the next 2 lines to be able to hold their own against the top line of the top teams defencively so that the Sabres can be in games and these guys will have the most room to succeed.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

Player over position to me.

Comtois is head and shoulders over Villardi to me. Comtois is that gritty two-way top six winger we are in desperate need of. He is the only proven player with upside being talked about. Turcotte might be better, might not. I like his game, but I’m not sold on his ceiling.

3OA to me means a good chance of Beniers/Eklund. There’s no way we get that with 8.

Same. He’s probably going to be similar role, worse player than Casey.

Again, this only works as a strong argument through the prism of Power going at 1. We can get Eklund/Beniers at 1. The difference between Power and Johnson may not be that big. I'm really not sold on Power. 

It's ok to prefer Comtois here and Eklund over Beniers there but we can't just liquidate all our best assets and be left with a centre barren roster - I'll keep saying it 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

If we are shipping out Eichel AND Reinhart, our top 2 centres, we'd probably need to bring in more than 2 to "replace" them, as we need a few bullets. Bringing in Johnson, Turcotte, and Vilardi all while adding the best forward in the draft looks OK to me. 

It could be the difference between trying to hammer out 2 top 6 centres (or 3 top 9 centres) from Johnson, Vilardi, Turcotte, Cozens, and Mittelstadt, and trying to hammer 2 top 6 centres out from Cozens and Mittelstadt. 

Eklund is as much a centre as Trevor Zegras. As in he’s played a lot there and a lot the wing.

Just now, Thorny said:

Again, this only works as a strong argument through the prism of Power going at 1. We can get Eklund/Beniers at 1. The difference between Power and Johnson may not be that big. I'm really not sold on Power. 

It's ok to prefer Comtois here and Eklund over Beniers there but we can't just liquidate all our best assets and be left with a centre barren roster - I'll keep saying it 

I’m not taking Power at 1 or assuming the Sabres will.

Im trying to play the draft so I walk away with Eklund and Beniers.

[Thorny]

Just now, dudacek said:

Eklund is as much a centre as Trevor Zegras. As in he’s played a lot there and a lot the wing.

Talking about this before, he's mostly projected to Wing, I'd have a hard time counting on him for the C transition. But I have us drafting him in my scenario anyways. 

You like Comtois more than me, probably what it comes down to. I also think we need to bring in more centres, obviously. Can't just roll with a Cozens/Mittelstadt "need to hit" combo, at least if Eklund does end up on wing. Which is obviously very possible. Haven't heard that about Zegras at all honestly. 

For me it mostly comes down to Turcotte/Vilardi/Johnson > Comtois/Power

And a lot of that comes down to the fact I don't want to draft a D man high 

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

3 to 8 is a bit of a drop but they may feel comfortable with a few players in that area, I'd have to assume they were if they made this deal.

This is where the Ventura hire should pay dividends.  Hopefully he can assess the best talent after the top few picks.

[Thorny]

30 minutes ago, Marvin, Sabres Fan said:

Assuming that Eichel and Reinhart are gone, I think we should look for 2 high-quality defencive possession centres to anchor the bottom 6; assuming that you call Asplund-Mittlestadt-Thompson and Skinner-Cozens-Ruotsalainen the top 6 offencively.  I want the next 2 lines to be able to hold their own against the top line of the top teams defencively so that the Sabres can be in games and these guys will have the most room to succeed.

I do have trouble counting on Cozens and Mittelstadt for that in the long term, yes

29 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Eklund is as much a centre as Trevor Zegras. As in he’s played a lot there and a lot the wing.

I’m not taking Power at 1 or assuming the Sabres will.

Im trying to play the draft so I walk away with Eklund and Beniers.

Ya that can work too. I just want to avoid the problem of where we are looking at the C pipeline and roster and are left thinking, gee, I wonder where we can get a really good young C, anyone in the draft coming up? (after this draft, I mean)

Edited July 8, 2021 by Thorny

[steveoath]

8OA would give the possibility of McTavish. Another tenacious centre.

[Digger]

I still like Quinton Byfield and think that they would rather keep Turcotte for their future 2nd line center if Eichel is their new number 1.

They still have Kopitar who is still doing well statistically, 56GP, 13G, 37A, 50Pts (last season) so they are in good shape at center.  Also have Alex Iafallo.  So if they add Eichel and Turcotte develops as expected then Byfield can be dealt as part of the deal.

[Curt]

55 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Eklund is as much a centre as Trevor Zegras. As in he’s played a lot there and a lot the wing.

I think Zegras has a better chance of being a C than Eklund, but there is a non negligible chance that Zegras ends up on the wing.

[dudacek]

57 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Talking about this before, he's mostly projected to Wing, I'd have a hard time counting on him for the C transition. But I have us drafting him in my scenario anyways. 

You like Comtois more than me, probably what it comes down to. I also think we need to bring in more centres, obviously. Can't just roll with a Cozens/Mittelstadt "need to hit" combo, at least if Eklund does end up on wing. Which is obviously very possible. Haven't heard that about Zegras at all honestly. 

For me it mostly comes down to Turcotte/Vilardi/Johnson > Comtois/Power

And a lot of that comes down to the fact I don't want to draft a D man high 

Yes, I do seem to value Comtois more than most. How I would rank your five:

1. Comtois: Already a top 6 winger, still young enough to have upside, fills an organizational  need in terms of leadership, abrasiveness and 2-way play.

2. Power: Good player, almost certainly a top 4 all-situations D; questions about his 1st-pairing upside, I still see him as Eric Johnson

3. Turcotte: has Chris Drury 2C upside, plays both ways, leader; questions about his skill, could also top out as a Cody Eakin in his prime 3C (not meant as a shot, Eakin used to be useful)

4. Vilardi: Upside is Ryan or Dylan Strome. Will produce with the right linemates; will not be driver or an identity player

5. Johnson: Nylander — ceiling Willie, floor Alex. A nice throw-in, but not who I'd want as a building block.

First three are all close and players I'd like to add.

52 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I do have trouble counting on Cozens and Mittelstadt for that in the long term, yes

Ya that can work too. I just want to avoid the problem of where we are looking at the C pipeline and roster and are left thinking, gee, I wonder where we can get a really good young C, anyone in the draft coming up? (after this draft, I mean)

see below

28 minutes ago, steveoath said:

8OA would give the possibility of McTavish. Another tenacious centre.

While I agree Casey and Dylan aren't enough, there is still the return from a Sam trade to consider, as well either Eklund or Beniers from a Jack trade or 1OA.

I would also be very surprised is another centre isn't brought in through trade or free agency.

 

[Thorny]

46 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Yes, I do seem to value Comtois more than most. How I would rank your five:

1. Comtois: Already a top 6 winger, still young enough to have upside, fills an organizational  need in terms of leadership, abrasiveness and 2-way play.

2. Power: Good player, almost certainly a top 4 all-situations D; questions about his 1st-pairing upside, I still see him as Eric Johnson

3. Turcotte: has Chris Drury 2C upside, plays both ways, leader; questions about his skill, could also top out as a Cody Eakin in his prime 3C (not meant as a shot, Eakin used to be useful)

4. Vilardi: Upside is Ryan or Dylan Strome. Will produce with the right linemates; will not be driver or an identity player

5. Johnson: Nylander — ceiling Willie, floor Alex. A nice throw-in, but not who I'd want as a building block.

First three are all close and players I'd like to add.

see below

While I agree Casey and Dylan aren't enough, there is still the return from a Sam trade to consider, as well either Eklund or Beniers from a Jack trade or 1OA.

I would also be very surprised is another centre isn't brought in through trade or free agency.

 

I'd probably go...Turcotte/Johnson/Power/Comtois/Vilardi

Soured on Power atm

I still like him ok as a top 4 prospect, but I like the 2 centres I listed ahead better 

[dudacek]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I'd probably go...Turcotte/Johnson/Power/Comtois/Vilardi

Soured on Power atm

I still like him ok as a top 4 prospect, but I like the 2 centres I listed ahead better 

You are comfortable projecting Johnson as a centre, but not Eklund?

[Thorny]

Just now, dudacek said:

You are comfortable projecting Johnson as a centre, but not Eklund?

Well yes, from what I've read he's expected to transition back to centre. Regardless, we need to fill 4 centre spots. As mentioned I'm weary of Cozens/Mittelstadt/maybe!Eklund, I much prefer the look and pipeline depth of Cozens/Mittelstadt/Turcotte/Vilardi/maybe!Johnson/maybe!Eklund. If we aren't going to put a prospective 1C in the system ala a Zegras, I'd like the idea of having few that can hopefully result in 2nd line quality coverage across the board. 

I'm not saying we need to get Turcotte, but if none of the extra pieces are centres, I'm hoping we get a more surefire one either from one of the two picks (1st OA and 3 OA/ 8 OA - Beniers?) or the Reinhart deal. 

If we head into August after EIchel, Reinhart, and the Draft is all said and done and the C depth looks like Cozens/Mittelstadt/and a shot at Eklund playing there as your top 3 prospectives, I think that'd be a mistake. 

[Curt]

10 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I'd probably go...Turcotte/Johnson/Power/Comtois/Vilardi

Soured on Power atm

I still like him ok as a top 4 prospect, but I like the 2 centres I listed ahead better 

Damn that’s so high for Johnson.

[Thorny]

Just now, Curt said:

Damn that’s so high for Johnson.

I really like him for some reason lol. He's fun to watch 

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

Damn that’s so high for Johnson.

He's 8 on McKenzie's board. 9 in the consolidated rank. I have no problem valuing him as an asset above Comtois. Power doesn't really impress me. 

That's obviously all relative - I don't think Power is a bad prospect at all 

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I really like him for some reason lol. He's fun to watch 

He’s got great skill. So does Alex Nylander.

Eklund’s tenaciousness and the way he thinks the game make him a better fit at centre than Johnson, in my opinion.

[Thorny]

Just now, dudacek said:

He’s got great skill. So does Alex Nylander.

Eklund’s tenaciousness and the way he thinks the game make him a better fit at centre than Johnson, in my opinion.

I won't argue the point even if I've read different as Johnson being drafted wasn't really a key part of my scenario. 

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I really like him for some reason lol. He's fun to watch 

He's 8 on McKenzie's board. 9 in the consolidated rank. I have no problem valuing him as an asset above Comtois. Power doesn't really impress me. 

That's obviously all relative - I don't think Power is a bad prospect at all 

I feel like Johnson has a lot of the Mittelstadt type of thing where his hands are quick but he can’t problem solve out on the ice.  He defaults to trying to stick handle through the defense even when there is no opening and just loses the puck.  Also like Mitts, he has a lot of physical maturing to go through.