Jack Eichel: Trade rumors and speculation

[I-90 W]

If Eichel has done no wrong here then logically we can all bail on the Buffalo Sabres too. We can all pick new teams to root for according to this logic. Yet we would rightfully balk if a fan did that, but we defend players who bail? Why are we held to a higher standard when we’re being loyal to the crest for free? As society’s moral fabric erodes as does our expectations of athletes apparently. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by I-90 W
Typo

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

And if Josh hadn't played well and the Bills hadn't started winning, would you have argued that he needed more talent around him and a better organization? I still say when you don't win, you look to your best player and in this case captain (among other places you look). No excuses for Jack.

I don't think Jack is so unaware that he doesn't know that his comment about wanting to be a Bruin is a kick in the nuts to every fan, even the ladies. Really, it's unforgivable. Not sure it matters, because even his supporters had already gone from "we need to keep the guy" to trade proposals in record time.

How can "wherever that is" the Bruins comment be interpreted any other way? He wants out. Or maybe you're saying when he caught wind of the Sabres shopping him last summer, he felt betrayed.

Ya, dudacek nailed it first as common, day of. I share his view that KA probably intimated to Jack he was shopping him, and it’s doubtful he hasn’t heard about it anyways. 

That comment from Jack was weird, and out of nowhere. If that was supposed to be some sort of veiled trade request, it would be so obvious as to make denying having requested a trade pointless. The easy explanation is that he said “wherever” because he doesn’t know where he’ll be dealt to! 

Dudacek had the Bruins thing, too. Classic splice up to tout a narrative and garner clicks 

Your Josh Allen point doesn’t really make sense, you need good QB play to be successful in the NFL. Jack doesn’t have the ability to elevate a team on his own, no NHL player does. We keep going back to this time and time again 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Thorny

[tom webster]

4 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I was with you until the end which is a made up thing older people cling to. Players wanted out and forced their way out back then there just wasn’t as much media access or coverage so it wasn’t as hotly speculated on.

The MJ to LeBron comparison also falls short because MJ won less than LeBron did when the two played on comparatively bad teams but once the front office gave MJ the tools to succeed he found success. The first era for LeBron on the Cavs had no tools for success so he had to go find them. That’s what stars do and have done for decades: leave if they aren’t given the tools for success. Some leave if they are given those tools. Not just the NBA. Pre-LeBron examples of both: Charles Barkley, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant,  John Elway, Jim Kelly, Eli Manning, Joe Montana, Kareem, Wilt, Chris Pronger, Michael Peca, Pavel Bure, Eric Lindros, Patrick Roy.

It is why I added the part in parentheses. I know Lebron didn’t start the movement and while I am indeed “older,” I would like to think I don’t “cling” to much.

20 minutes ago, Thorny said:

How does this era look in terms of the common practice of GMs looking to bail on their star players? 

This is *GM* initiated 

Why are we pretending Jack asked out when he has not? 

The GM initiated it when he became convinced that Jack wasn’t committed to being part of the solution.

[PASabreFan]

8 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I was with you until the end which is a made up thing older people cling to. Players wanted out and forced their way out back then there just wasn’t as much media access or coverage so it wasn’t as hotly speculated on.

The MJ to LeBron comparison also falls short because MJ won less than LeBron did when the two played on comparatively bad teams but once the front office gave MJ the tools to succeed he found success. The first era for LeBron on the Cavs had no tools for success so he had to go find them. That’s what stars do and have done for decades: leave if they aren’t given the tools for success. Some leave if they are given those tools. Not just the NBA. Pre-LeBron examples of both: Charles Barkley, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant,  John Elway, Jim Kelly, Eli Manning, Joe Montana, Kareem, Wilt, Chris Pronger, Michael Peca, Pavel Bure, Eric Lindros, Patrick Roy.

You have a certain worldview, admirable I think. But why is ageism still allowed to be part of it?

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya, dudacek nailed it first as common, day of. I share his view that KA probably intimated to Jack he was shopping him, and it’s doubtful he hasn’t heard about it anyways. 

That comment from Jack was weird, and out of nowhere. If that was supposed to be some sort of veiled trade request, it would be so obvious as to make denying having requested a trade pointless. The easy explanation is that he said “wherever” because he doesn’t know where he’ll be dealt to! 

Dudacek had the Bruins thing, too. Classic splice up to tout a narrative and garner clicks 

I mean, he said those words. I won't forget. And, honestly, I won't remember a lot about Jack Eichel as a Buffalo Sabre.

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I was with you until the end which is a made up thing older people cling to. Players wanted out and forced their way out back then there just wasn’t as much media access or coverage so it wasn’t as hotly speculated on.

The MJ to LeBron comparison also falls short because MJ won less than LeBron did when the two played on comparatively bad teams but once the front office gave MJ the tools to succeed he found success. The first era for LeBron on the Cavs had no tools for success so he had to go find them. That’s what stars do and have done for decades: leave if they aren’t given the tools for success. Some leave if they are given those tools. Not just the NBA. Pre-LeBron examples of both: Charles Barkley, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant,  John Elway, Jim Kelly, Eli Manning, Joe Montana, Kareem, Wilt, Chris Pronger, Michael Peca, Pavel Bure, Eric Lindros, Patrick Roy.

And LeBron had nothing in Cleveland and still carried them to multiple finals. Because in Basketball you can do that.  Compare what LeBron has been able to elevate his teams to vs McDavid so far, comparable in their talent relative to their sport 

10 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Too many relevant dissimilarities between an NFL QB and an NHL 1C for this comparison to be relevant. No player in the world takes any of the past 6 sabres teams and hits 90 points in jacks spot 

Gretzky never won a cup without being surrounded by multiple hall of famers! 

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, I-90 W said:

If Eichel has done no wrong here then logically we can all bail on the Buffalo Sabres too. We can all pick new teams to root for according to this logic. Yet we would rightfully balk if a fan did that, but we defend players who bail? Why are we held to a higher standard when we’re being loyal to the crest for free? As society’s moral fabric erodes as does our expectations of athletes apparently. 

Jack Eichel’s time in the NHL is significantly, presumably more time sensitive. He’s got another what, 10 years (?) and then once he’s probably the age of most any poster on this board, his dream of winning a cup is dead 

[Pimlach]

15 hours ago, dudacek said:

That was a pretty contrived and manipulative piece with a voiceover clip, noticeably spliced out of a larger context, cut off before he finished his sentence, and probably the result of a leading question.

But it doesn’t change the fact that he is there, wearing a plain black hat, talking about someday playing for the Bruins.  
 

Can anyone find a clip of Patrick Kane, as a Chicago Black Hawk, someday aspiring to play for his hometown team?  
 

Jack has already mentally checked out. 

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, tom webster said:

It is why I added the part in parentheses. I know Lebron didn’t start the movement and while I am indeed “older,” I would like to think I don’t “cling” to much.

The GM initiated it when he became convinced that Jack wasn’t committed to being part of the solution.

Link? 

[I-90 W]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Jack Eichel’s time in the NHL is significantly, presumably more time sensitive. He’s got another what, 10 years (?) and then once he’s probably the age of most any poster on this board, his dream of winning a cup is dead 

Fair point, but my point still stands as chasing a cup at all costs is still a selfish act. Where we differ is whether or not a player should be able to do it without being labeled as selfish.

[Rasmus_]

It's Jack being Jack, answering a home town reporter.  I think we can cut, Jack some slack in saying, the obvious answer is of course, at some point I'd love to play for my home town team.  To the "now or later", it's just time to move on for all parties.  Get the absolute most you can for him.  This *****, isn't going to get better.   Yes, waiting for the best return is important, but there's always the theory of thought about waiting TOO LONG.

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

You have a certain worldview, admirable I think. But why is ageism still allowed to be part of it?

I mean, he said those words. I won't forget. And, honestly, I won't remember a lot about Jack Eichel as a Buffalo Sabre.

Me neither. The overarching memory of Jack’s tenure for me is a feeling. It’s not a moment, because the franchise never put Eichel in a position where he could truly make any. The feeling is of missed opportunity. 

[erickompositör72]

14 minutes ago, Hoss said:

 

The MJ to LeBron comparison also falls short because MJ won less than LeBron did when the two played on comparatively bad teams but once the front office gave MJ the tools to succeed he found success. The first era for LeBron on the Cavs had no tools for success so he had to go find them. That’s what stars do and have done for decades: leave if they aren’t given the tools for success. Some leave if they are given those tools. Not just the NBA. Pre-LeBron examples of both: Charles Barkley, Scottie Pippen, Kobe Bryant,  John Elway, Jim Kelly, Eli Manning, Joe Montana, Kareem, Wilt, Chris Pronger, Michael Peca, Pavel Bure, Eric Lindros, Patrick Roy.

Add Hasek to the list

8 minutes ago, tom webster said:

The GM initiated it when he became convinced that Jack wasn’t committed to being part of the solution.

Seriously? Being in the league MVP conversation isn't being committed to the solution? Respectfully, this sounds like nonsense.

[Hoss]

10 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

You have a certain worldview, admirable I think. But why is ageism still allowed to be part of it?

Ageism is not making an observation about the way a certain age group perceives something.

1 minute ago, erickompositör72 said:

Add Hasek to the list

Seriously? Being in the league MVP conversation isn't being committed to the solution? Respectfully, this sounds like nonsense.

Something something Ted Nolan’s wife something something.

[JohnC]

33 minutes ago, tom webster said:

This is so overblown. Every hire the Pegulas made prior to KA were met with some degree of applause. They were all on somebody’s list of “next in line.”  Obviously they didn’t work out, maybe TM needed more time. Now, they have decided to follow their vision and time will tell if they are right but players bailing is a relatively new thing. In and era of Michael Jordan, elite athletes aspired to be a part of the solution and will their teams to success. In an era personified by Lebron( but not started by him) it has become acceptable to bail and go where you don’t have to work quite as hard.

What isn't overblown is that the Sabres have had one of the worst records in the NHL stretching for a decade. I don't care who recommended who regarding the staffing. The owner ultimately makes the decision who to hire. You can ask anyone involved in the hockey business and covering the sport and there will be no one who would be foolish enough to say that the Sabres are a well run operation. The Pegula tenure is replete with staffing turmoil and turnover. The Sabres' reputation of running a chaotic and mercurial operation is reflected in their extended dismal record. It starts at the top. No  more excuses. 

[PASabreFan]

10 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Link? 

Not sure if serious. There's no link for that. It's an opinion. #1 SS pet peeve right there.

5 minutes ago, Hoss said:

Ageism is not making an observation about the way a certain age group perceives something.

Something something Ted Nolan’s wife something something.

That's actually a pretty good definition of any -ism.

[Thorny]

9 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

But it doesn’t change the fact that he is there, wearing a plain black hat, talking about someday playing for the Bruins.  
 

Can anyone find a clip of Patrick Kane, as a Chicago Black Hawk, someday aspiring to play for his hometown team?  
 

Jack has already mentally checked out. 

 

6 minutes ago, TheCerebral1 said:

It's Jack being Jack, answering a home town reporter.  I think we can cut, Jack some slack in saying, the obvious answer is of course, at some point I'd love to play for my home town team.  To the "now or later", it's just time to move on for all parties.  Get the absolute most you can for him.  This *****, isn't going to get better.   Yes, waiting for the best return is important, but there's always the theory of thought about waiting TOO LONG.

It’s a funny thing. People have such an issue with blunt honesty. It’s not about what someone thinks or feels, just what they say. They need to be policed. Tavares talked endlessly about how he has *always* wanted to be a Leaf once he got there. Was he lying and the feelings only came about after the deal? No, he felt that way, even as a member of the islanders. We all know he felt it, and we knew it before the deal happened based on comments previous re: his boyhood team. It’s so common for players to want to play at home one day. We already all know it. But it just can’t be verbalized. Heaven forbid someone speaks a truth everyone already knows. People aren’t one dimensional robots. Any athlete wanting to play for their home team one day isn’t prevented from maximizing the tenure in his current location 

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

Not sure if serious. There's no link for that. It's an opinion. #1 SS pet peeve right there.

That's actually a pretty good definition of any -ism.

It’s a joke 

[Hoss]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

That's actually a pretty good definition of any -ism.

I was pretty confident this would be your response 😂 

[PASabreFan]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 

It’s a funny thing. People have such an issue with blunt honesty. It’s not about what someone thinks or feels, just what they say. They need to be policed. Tavares talked endlessly about how he has *always* wanted to be a Leaf once he got there. Was he lying and the feelings only came about after the deal? No, he felt that way, even as a member of the islanders. We all know he felt it, and we knew it before the deal happened based on comments previous re: his boyhood team. It’s so common for players to want to play at home one day. We already all know it. But it just can’t be verbalized. Heaven forbid someone speaks a truth everyone already knows. People aren’t one dimensional robots. Any athlete wanting to play for their home team one day isn’t prevented from maximizing the tenure in his current location 

You don't say stuff like that to fans who go back to Schoeny and Cashman crashing through the Zamboni doors. You don't tell your Aunt her macaroni salad is dry. Nice job, Janene, stop skimping on the Mayo (actually, she uses Miracle Whip and she ***** cheated on Gene with her chiropractor, yeah, your lumbar spine wasn't messed up until after he wheelbarrowed you, you *****).

Anywho... that comment above all is a good indication of who Jack is and why KA knew, upon taking the job, he had to go.

2 minutes ago, Hoss said:

I was pretty confident this would be your response 😂 

If I could get up, I'd knock you on your ass, sonny.

Edited July 10, 2021 by PASabreFan

[Thorny]

8 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

You don't say stuff like that to fans who go back to Schoeny and Cashman crashing through the Zamboni doors. You don't tell your Aunt her macaroni salad is dry. Nice job, Janene, stop skimping on the Mayo (actually, she uses Miracle Whip and she ***** cheated on Gene with her chiropractor, yeah, your lumbar spine wasn't messed up until after he wheelbarrowed you, you *****).

Anywho... that comment above all is a good indication of who Jack is and why KA knew, upon taking the job, he had to go.

If I could get up, I'd knock you on your ass, sonny.

Only if his theory that you can’t win with him is correct. And his equation is so unbelievably barren in terms of filled variables (ie the team around Jack  has been bad, sorry, historically bad), I can’t at this time believe that to be the case. 

It’s exponentially more likely we didn’t win because we had a bad team, than because our *far and away* best player, who’s performed way, way better than everyone else on ice, cast spells on the locker room with his attitude that discouraged poor Hutton, Staal, and Johansson 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Thorny

[PASabreFan]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Only if his theory that you can’t win with him is correct. And his equation is so unbelievably barren in terms of filled variables (ie the team around Jack  has been bad, sorry, historically bad), I can’t at this time believe that to be the case. 

It’s exponentially more likely we didn’t win because we had a bad team, than because our *far and away* best player, who’s performed way, way better than everyone else on ice, cast spells on the locker room with his attitude that discouraged poor Hutton, Staal, and Johansson 

Well, it's all very interesting to ponder. But why keep pondering it? It's over. Bridges have been burned. The Eichel Era, predictably, didn't work out.

The fans are cockroaches after nuclear blast after nuclear blast. We survive the players and the owners. Our hockey lives go on. It has to get better.

Jack, we hardly knew ye. (Now watch, he won't get traded. That'll be interesting in the fall, to say the least. In Taro's world, anyway, it'll be like that time Costanza quit, then showed up for work again on Monday anyway.)

[Rasmus_]

22 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 

It’s a funny thing. People have such an issue with blunt honesty. It’s not about what someone thinks or feels, just what they say. They need to be policed. Tavares talked endlessly about how he has *always* wanted to be a Leaf once he got there. Was he lying and the feelings only came about after the deal? No, he felt that way, even as a member of the islanders. We all know he felt it, and we knew it before the deal happened based on comments previous re: his boyhood team. It’s so common for players to want to play at home one day. We already all know it. But it just can’t be verbalized. Heaven forbid someone speaks a truth everyone already knows. People aren’t one dimensional robots. Any athlete wanting to play for their home team one day isn’t prevented from maximizing the tenure in his current location 

It’s a joke 

He's frustrated, we're frustrated, the management group is frustrated, makes for an unenviable task.  Just move on, and lets start building.  Unlike last time we at least have 7-8 potential pieces.  

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Well, it's all very interesting to ponder. But why keep pondering it? It's over. Bridges have been burned. The Eichel Era, predictably, didn't work out.

The fans are cockroaches after nuclear blast after nuclear blast. We survive the players and the owners. Our hockey lives go on. It has to get better.

Jack, we hardly knew ye. (Now watch, he won't get traded. That'll be interesting in the fall, to say the least. In Taro's world, anyway, it'll be like that time Costanza quit, then showed up for work again on Monday anyway.)

The bold addresses the italicized, for my part 

If you are going to claim some sort of victory over it not working out, I’ll keep telling you why it should have 

It can be our Hull crease thing for decades, I’m good with that 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Thorny

[PromoTheRobot]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

He wasn’t good in 2018 

What does “fight” for it even mean? We know Jack’s training regimen is balls to the wall. How exactly isn’t he fighting? He works his ass off. You don’t get to where he is today without supreme work ethic and determination 

He isn’t giving up on the “Buffalo Sabres” and their fans. He is in a war with several individuals in management. Dunno why people can’t separate that 

Allen flashed his potential plenty in 2018. It was pretty obvious he was something special.

[PASabreFan]

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

The bold addresses the italicized, for my part 

If you are going to claim some sort of victory over it not working out, I’ll keep telling you why it should have 

I actually meant to put a "probably" in front of predictably but typed too fast. The predicably could come out. It wasn't an intended victory lap. I was never someone who predicted that the Eichel era wouldn't work out. I was as over the moon on draft day 2015 as everyone else.

[Pimlach]

3 hours ago, Thorny said:

 

It’s a funny thing. People have such an issue with blunt honesty. It’s not about what someone thinks or feels, just what they say. They need to be policed. Tavares talked endlessly about how he has *always* wanted to be a Leaf once he got there. Was he lying and the feelings only came about after the deal? No, he felt that way, even as a member of the islanders. We all know he felt it, and we knew it before the deal happened based on comments previous re: his boyhood team. It’s so common for players to want to play at home one day. We already all know it. But it just can’t be verbalized. Heaven forbid someone speaks a truth everyone already knows. People aren’t one dimensional robots. Any athlete wanting to play for their home team one day isn’t prevented from maximizing the tenure in his current location 

 

 

I think you are a great poster here and I enjoy your comments.   I do notice you never give up on trying to prove your point.  You are quick to ask for links.   Show me a clip of Tavares the Islander, saying he wants to be Tavares the Leaf.  It is perfectly fine to say what Tavaras said after the fact.  Not so great to say it while you are a member of another team.  
 

You also cling to the notion that Eichel never asked for a trade.   We don’t know what was said between KA and Eichel before the injury but something lead to the trade rumors with the Rangers.   KA is not going to say he prefers to be traded, as that hurts his bargaining position   

The whole neck surgery “disconnect” is Eichel’s attempt to force a trade.   Given his history of petulant behavior this situation should not be a total surprise.  
 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Pimlach