Mitts signed to a one year contract for $874k

[Taro T]

35 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Thought he was RFA? 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/sabres-sign-restricted-free-agent-casey-mittelstadt-one-year-deal/sn-amp/

He only has 2 years professional experience.  He needed to play at least 10 games that year he played 6 to be an RFA.  He was a 10.2.c player and not a FA.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He only has 2 years professional experience.  He needed to play at least 10 games that year he played 6 to be an RFA.  He was a 10.2.c player and not a FA.

Cheers

[DarthEbriate]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

He only has 2 years professional experience.  He needed to play at least 10 games that year he played 6 to be an RFA.  He was a 10.2.c player and not a FA.

This is why all the major sites need an additional distinction in their columns. UFA, RFA, RFA102c, etc. Let the uninformed like myself be informed. Knowing is half the battle as they say.

2 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Tim Horton's need a night manager in Lackawanna.

I dunno.... If he had been QO eligible and the Sabres had just signed Hall, Staal, and Eakin...  say you're Detroit.  You wouldn't toss Mitts a $925K to give him a two-year look-see in Grand Rapids, knowing he's liable to get through waivers that first season? (Remember, anything under 1.4M isn't even a single draft pick). He still has upside and skill. If he ever "gets" it, he could be a solid alternate scoring threat.

[Taro T]

36 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

But @Taro T, every site had him listed as an RFA: NHL.com, Sportsnet, Sportrac.  I'm not saying offer sheet now on Xmas EveEve, I mean as soon as the window opened and the qualifying offers were extended. Mitts never went to arbitration.

Just like Barzal. Any team could've extended an offer to Barzal. None did (or he didn't sign, which is ridiculous with the flat cap).   "Hey Matt. There's a flat/reduced cap. Every day you remain unsigned you're going to make less money --- even as a higher stature player. Here's 6.5M/2 years. Is it slightly below your value? Absolutely. But sign it and get a paycheck rather than settling 4.5 once all the money is gone. It's a bridge. We're glad to trade a first and a third for you."  Or any of a number of other guys, like Mitts. (Though of course, Mittestadt could've been offered what we signed Tage Thompson for or less.)

And every site says Mittelstadt's AAV on his 1st contract was $1.3+ when it actually was $925k.

There are only a handful of guys that fall under 10.2.c and it probably just isn't worth the effort to say that technically he wasn't an RFA.  Even though his being unsigned meant on a certain level he WAS a free agent (he could've signed overseas or picked a different career) and there were SEVERE restrictions upon his attempts to get gainful employment within the NHL.  Namely, he could accept an offer from the Sabres or find a different league or a different career.

In English, that's an RFA.  In legalese, that's not an RFA.

[I-90 W]

I remember complaining about this pick three years ago, BPA doesn’t always pan out. Neither does drafting for need, but just never liked this pick. 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

This is why all the major sites need an additional distinction in their columns. UFA, RFA, RFA102c, etc. Let the uninformed like myself be informed. Knowing is half the battle as they say.

I dunno.... If he had been QO eligible and the Sabres had just signed Hall, Staal, and Eakin...  say you're Detroit.  You wouldn't toss Mitts a $925K to give him a two-year look-see in Grand Rapids, knowing he's liable to get through waivers that first season? (Remember, anything under 1.4M isn't even a single draft pick). He still has upside and skill. If he ever "gets" it, he could be a solid alternate scoring threat.

Id bet money, real money, that Yzerman would not offer sheet Mitts. But to the point of another team, why would they and why wouldn't Buffalo match something that low?

13 minutes ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

Tim Horton's need a night manager in Lackawanna.

Did they have Xbox in the back, think they'd have to sweeten the pot with some video game time. 

[DarthEbriate]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Id bet money, real money, that Yzerman would not offer sheet Mitts. But to the point of another team, why would they and why wouldn't Buffalo match something that low?

You never know unless you try. For super-cheap, yes the Sabres likely match. But it's also a Sabres team no one fears (yet). Push the money higher into a 3rd-round pick range and then it could make sense. You get the 2 years to see if he pans out as an offensively-minded 3C who can win shootouts and play higher up with injuries at still a bottom-end salary (Girgensons-level). Mitts is more dangerous than Girgs offensively.

And just in general, these next 2-3 seasons you should be weaponizing your cap if you have it. If some GM had forced TB to sign Sergachev for 4.5M, and another had forced TB to sign Cernak for 4M, then Cirelli couldn't be signed even with Kucherov sitting the season on LTIR. In the good-case, you get a player before normal market value during the next couple seasons. In the best-case, you force Cirelli off the TBL and maybe you can get him. Or you force TBL to trade Point and a 1st just to clear cap space. Your fellow GMs are just as much your enemies as are their roster/assets.

[miles]

• its 875k too much

[DarthEbriate]

6 minutes ago, miles said:

• its 875k too much

Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future. The condensed schedule this season could easily see us needing 5-10 games from a center callup or line shuffle. If Mitts were to play 7-10 games and manage to score in a couple shootouts that get us into the playoffs?

He's not what we've wanted in an 8th overall. But neither is Nylander what Chicago wants yet. In 2023, we can write the book on Mittelstadt.

[GASabresIUFAN]

36 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future. The condensed schedule this season could easily see us needing 5-10 games from a center callup or line shuffle. If Mitts were to play 7-10 games and manage to score in a couple shootouts that get us into the playoffs?

He's not what we've wanted in an 8th overall. But neither is Nylander what Chicago wants yet. In 2023, we can write the book on Mittelstadt.

First things first.  The draft after the top 5 that year hasn’t been very good and Mitts has been more productive then the forwards drafted near him.  Mitts is young talented and a better player the Nylander will ever be.  My guess is he is very close to NHL ready and don’t be surprised if grabs a permanent spot in this lineup by mid-season.  

 

[nfreeman]

Serious question:  who will have a better NHL career:  Mitts or Ruotsalainen?

[dudacek]

16 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Serious question:  who will have a better NHL career:  Mitts or Ruotsalainen?

i have no idea, having seen R2 play only in last year's training camp.

But I love the question, because R2 is a full year older than Casey, and their 21-year-old seasons were statistically almost identical using NHLe.

Edited December 24, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

i have no idea, having seen R2 play only in last year's training camp.

But I love the question, because R2 is a full year older than Casey, and their 21-year-old seasons were statistically almost identical using NHLe.

What was Mitts' NHLe? Does it compare to what we actually saw him put up in the NHL last season?

24p/82gp was his production rate. 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Thorny

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

What was Mitts' NHLe? Does it compare to what we actually saw him put up in the NHL last season?

His AHL production at 21 last season translated to just under 28 NHLe, which was negligibly better than the 25 real NHL points he put up at 20.

At 21 R2 was just over 26 NHLe in Liiga

I mean LGR is right on Mitt's, his problem is the fact that his game did not develop one iota over his first 100 NHL games. He left the NHL at the same level he arrived.

Edited December 24, 2020 by dudacek

[Thorny]

Yep. It's so often about the trend line. 

[PASabreFan]

Surprised. Expected c. $923K and perhaps as much as about $945K to $947K.

 

[LGR4GM]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

His AHL production at 21 last season translated to just under 28 NHLe, which was negligibly better than the 25 real NHL points he put up at 20.

At 21 R2 was just over 26 NHLe in Liiga

I mean LGR is right on Mitt's, his problem is the fact that his game did not develop one iota over his first 100 NHL games. He left the NHL at the same level he arrived.

That's my biggest issue, the stagnation in his development. He actually regressed a hair last year. Now compare him to Reinhart who gets criticized all the time, every year we get a better version regardless of coach, system, linemates. It's not that mitts is young, it's that there's no progression. He needs a full ahl year to develop his game. 

[dudacek]

39 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

That's my biggest issue, the stagnation in his development. He actually regressed a hair last year. Now compare him to Reinhart who gets criticized all the time, every year we get a better version regardless of coach, system, linemates. It's not that mitts is young, it's that there's no progression. He needs a full ahl year to develop his game. 

Personally, i don't think people bash Housley enough for where Mitts is.

He coddled and shielded him throughout his rookie year when he should have been teaching and challenging. It took Ralph less than a month to figure out Casey wasn't ready and another month to convince Botterill.

People seem to love Chris Taylor, so maybe he did start Casey on the right path last year, even if Taylor's firing wouldn't seem to reflect that.

It's been nearly a year since Casey played hockey; that's plenty of time to rethink and refocus his approach to the game and decide he's going to be a pro. I'm open to the possibility that he has, and can force his way on to the roster, even though I'm not counting on it.

More than anything else he needs to play.

Edited December 24, 2020 by dudacek

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I'm a numbers guy and I don't like this atoll.  Nope.

Can we do a gofundme thingie to round this damn thing up by $1k?

I do not like $874k ... need to see a nice rounder $875k.

OCD is ...

[Taro T]

47 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Personally, i don't think people bash Housley enough for where Mitts is.

He coddled and shielded him throughout his rookie year when he should have been teaching and challenging. It took Ralph less than a month to figure out Casey wasn't ready and another month to convince Botterill.

People seem to love Chris Taylor, so maybe he did start Casey on the right path last year, even if Taylor's firing wouldn't seem to reflect that.

It's been nearly a year since Casey played hockey; that's plenty of time to rethink and refocus his approach to the game and decide he's going to be a pro. I'm open to the possibility that he has, and can force his way on to the roster, even though I'm not counting on it.

More than anything else he needs to play.

Timmy Connolly was a completely different player after the lockout than he was prior.

Maybe Mittelstadt shows up minus the long locks?

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

Timmy Connolly was a completely different player after the lockout than he was prior.

Maybe Mittelstadt shows up minus the long locks?

I'd settle for minus the baby fat.

[Zamboni]

I hope he turns it around. He has too much talent.  I hope he puts it all together this year. He still young enough.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

The fact that nobody bothered should tell you what you need to know.

That fact only tells us that the league GMs (or at least somebody on each of their staffs) have a functional understanding of the CBA and knew they would (A.) be charged with tampering for speaking to him or his agent and face draft &/or monetary consequences for doing so, and (B.) that since the Sabres hold his exclusive rights that he couldn't accept an offer anyway.

But yours is an interesting narrative none the less.  😉

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Personally, i don't think people bash Housley enough for where Mitts is.

He coddled and shielded him throughout his rookie year when he should have been teaching and challenging. It took Ralph less than a month to figure out Casey wasn't ready and another month to convince Botterill.

People seem to love Chris Taylor, so maybe he did start Casey on the right path last year, even if Taylor's firing wouldn't seem to reflect that.

It's been nearly a year since Casey played hockey; that's plenty of time to rethink and refocus his approach to the game and decide he's going to be a pro. I'm open to the possibility that he has, and can force his way on to the roster, even though I'm not counting on it.

More than anything else he needs to play.

He's not going to force his way onto the team because he's been off 10 months. Mitts needs to learn how to play hockey at a high level, he thinks he can deke everyone and play solo and he plays slow. I don't see anyway he could learn that by not playing. 

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I'd settle for minus the baby fat.

I don't think his problem is physical. 

[JohnC]

15 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

First things first.  The draft after the top 5 that year hasn’t been very good and Mitts has been more productive then the forwards drafted near him.  Mitts is young talented and a better player the Nylander will ever be.  My guess is he is very close to NHL ready and don’t be surprised if grabs a permanent spot in this lineup by mid-season.  

 

Why do you project mid-season for him to grab a permanent spot in this lineup? If he doesn't earn a regular third line role when the team begins the season after the abbreviated training camp then that is a testament where he stands in the organization. Mitts has been an easy target for the bulk of the fandom to dismiss as an irretrievable prospect. I'm not in that discordant chorus. But it is apparent to me that if he doesn't beat out the other mostly young players he is vying for playing time his ranking in the organization will be on a downward trajectory when it will become obvious to all that he is a player no longer in this front office's plans. 

Cozens will inevitably move ahead of him as a player. Will Arttu? Quinn is in the pipeline and the projection for him is a first or second line forward in a couple to three years. So if he doesn't show very soon that he can contribute then I don't see Mitts moving up the ranks as I do see him sliding down the ranks. There is a window of opportunity for him this season. But that window is starting to close in this organization. It's up to him to show what he can do. If he can play at this level it will become obvious. If he can't play at this level it will also become obvious.