Mitts signed to a one year contract for $874k

[dudacek]

On 12/24/2020 at 11:52 AM, LGR4GM said:

He's not going to force his way onto the team because he's been off 10 months. Mitts needs to learn how to play hockey at a high level, he thinks he can deke everyone and play solo and he plays slow. I don't see anyway he could learn that by not playing. 

I don't think his problem is physical. 

 

I am in agreement that Casey's problem is primarily his inability to play the style of game he played as a teenager against NHL competition. I don't think the only possible remedy is another full season in the minors.

You're dismissing that Casey has already played 35 games in the minors in order to work on his problems and has had plenty of off-ice time to analyze and mitigate his issues. I would hope the team has been actively working with him in those areas most needing work.

I also think his issues with pace and puck battles are tied (not exclusive to, but tied) to a lack of commitment to fitness.

I'm not sure how it will manifest, but I am sure the the time off will have altered the playing field between players. Some players will be better, and others worse depending on how they used the break.

Casey has always had the physical gifts to play in the league. How has he maximized them? How will he utilize them?

Edited December 29, 2020 by dudacek

[Pimlach]

On 12/23/2020 at 4:53 PM, NAF said:

Maybe now he can afford a gym membership.

[GASabresIUFAN]

9 hours ago, JohnC said:

Why do you project mid-season for him to grab a permanent spot in this lineup? If he doesn't earn a regular third line role when the team begins the season after the abbreviated training camp then that is a testament where he stands in the organization. Mitts has been an easy target for the bulk of the fandom to dismiss as an irretrievable prospect. I'm not in that discordant chorus. But it is apparent to me that if he doesn't beat out the other mostly young players he is vying for playing time his ranking in the organization will be on a downward trajectory when it will become obvious to all that he is a player no longer in this front office's plans. 

Cozens will inevitably move ahead of him as a player. Will Arttu? Quinn is in the pipeline and the projection for him is a first or second line forward in a couple to three years. So if he doesn't show very soon that he can contribute then I don't see Mitts moving up the ranks as I do see him sliding down the ranks. There is a window of opportunity for him this season. But that window is starting to close in this organization. It's up to him to show what he can do. If he can play at this level it will become obvious. If he can't play at this level it will also become obvious. 

I completely disagree with his "window closing."  This isn't Alex Nylander.  The way he makes this roster is pretty straight forward.  He can win a job in camp, but more likely someone gets hurt or fails to perform (like Thompson, KO or Girgensons) and Mitts gets a shot a runs with it.  We have seen this before.   It's how guys like Pommers and Stafford earned their jobs.  With a compressed schedule depth will be key and Mitts adds that depth.  He has to much skill and he is a 3rd year pro.  This season will be his time to establish himself.

[French Collection]

5 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I completely disagree with his "window closing."  This isn't Alex Nylander.  The way he makes this roster is pretty straight forward.  He can win a job in camp, but more likely someone gets hurt or fails to perform (like Thompson, KO or Girgensons) and Mitts gets a shot a runs with it.  We have seen this before.   It's how guys like Pommers and Stafford earned their jobs.  With a compressed schedule depth will be key and Mitts adds that depth.  He has to much skill and he is a 3rd year pro.  This season will be his time to establish himself.

I hope you’re right.

Depth will be important and he may get his chance. How he competes in his games vs how Arttu and Asplund play will determine his fate. How he spent his off season and his mental approach will be key to him taking a step forward.

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I completely disagree with his "window closing."  This isn't Alex Nylander.  The way he makes this roster is pretty straight forward.  He can win a job in camp, but more likely someone gets hurt or fails to perform (like Thompson, KO or Girgensons) and Mitts gets a shot a runs with it.  We have seen this before.   It's how guys like Pommers and Stafford earned their jobs.  With a compressed schedule depth will be key and Mitts adds that depth.  He has to much skill and he is a 3rd year pro.  This season will be his time to establish himself.

I'm not rooting for him to fail. Quite the opposite. I want to see him succeed. Two players you cited in KO and Girgs are different style of players who are more suited for grittier and more rugged roles i.e. lower line roles. As a player he is more of a finesse type player whose style of play is more suitable for the top two lines.  As of now I don't see him coming close to earning a top two line assignment.  

This is a make or break year for Mitts. I acknowledge that he is still very young and there is time for him to grow. But the problem with the youth defense is that even as a young player I haven't seen enough progression to his game. I'm not requiring him to make a giant leap forward but I do expect some steady growth to his game. My sense about Mitts is that he is similar to Alex Nylander in that he can show flashes of sparkling play that deludes one from the reality of his more often pedestrian and uninspiring play. 

I want your assessment of Mitts to be more right than my assessment of him. But my head (my eyes) are not matching my heart. I'm rooting for him. But odds are a player like Arttu moves ahead of him and his slide will continue to the point where he becomes a non-factor. I want to be wrong about him and I will be rooting for him.  

[LGR4GM]

I hope mitts is better, but we've seen 2 years of stagnation. I truly believe he needs a full year of ahl hockey and the might fix him. 

[Taro T]

On 12/25/2020 at 10:43 AM, JohnC said:

I'm not rooting for him to fail. Quite the opposite. I want to see him succeed. Two players you cited in KO and Girgs are different style of players who are more suited for grittier and more rugged roles i.e. lower line roles. As a player he is more of a finesse type player whose style of play is more suitable for the top two lines.  As of now I don't see him coming close to earning a top two line assignment.  

This is a make or break year for Mitts. I acknowledge that he is still very young and there is time for him to grow. But the problem with the youth defense is that even as a young player I haven't seen enough progression to his game. I'm not requiring him to make a giant leap forward but I do expect some steady growth to his game. My sense about Mitts is that he is similar to Alex Nylander in that he can show flashes of sparkling play that deludes one from the reality of his more often pedestrian and uninspiring play. 

I want your assessment of Mitts to be more right than my assessment of him. But my head (my eyes) are not matching my heart. I'm rooting for him. But odds are a player like Arttu moves ahead of him and his slide will continue to the point where he becomes a non-factor. I want to be wrong about him and I will be rooting for him.  

But if Okposo or Girgensons aren't performing, Mittelstadt doesn't slide directly into their role, but one of the players on the 3rd offensive line getting 4th line minutes does.  Which leaves Mitts on that sheltered 3rd scoring line getting PP time & SO duty, where he should've been 2 years ago.

Whether it be a grinder not performing, or a top 6 guy getting injured, Mitts will get an opportunity as a 3rd scoring line/ 4th liner gets a chance to move up creating a space for him.  

Still expect that playing against NHLers in sheltered roles will help Mitts develop more than going against AHLers, but either is preferable to playing against top liners which 2C's face far too often in the real world.

Still expect him to develop into a useful NHLer.  Probably as a legit 2nd liner that ends up playing a lot of 3rd line 5v5 minutes, just due to #'s.  (Presumes Adams can work some magic & keep Hall & Reinhart long term & Cozens is legit top 6 by next season and that Quinn tops out as a top 6 guy as well.)   The cool thing is, w/ the moves Adams made this off-season, Casey won't get forced into a role he's overmatched for which should help with development.  The tough thing is he's likely taxi squad bound & no idea how much not even getting AHL games will hurt his development.   

[bob_sauve28]

13 minutes ago, Taro T said:

 .

Still expect him to develop into a useful NHLer.  Probably as a legit 2nd liner that ends up playing a lot of 3rd line 5v5 minutes, just due to #'s.  (Presumes Adams can work some magic & keep Hall & Reinhart long term & Cozens is legit top 6 by next season and that Quinn tops out as a top 6 guy as well.)   The cool thing is, w/ the moves Adams made this off-season, Casey won't get forced into a role he's overmatched for which should help with development.  The tough thing is he's likely taxi squad bound & no idea how much not even getting AHL games will hurt his development.   

Not that I would know, but I just don't see it. I just have not seen anything in him with talent, checking or skating to give me hope. But who knows?

[JohnC]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

But if Okposo or Girgensons aren't performing, Mittelstadt doesn't slide directly into their role, but one of the players on the 3rd offensive line getting 4th line minutes does.  Which leaves Mitts on that sheltered 3rd scoring line getting PP time & SO duty, where he should've been 2 years ago.

Whether it be a grinder not performing, or a top 6 guy getting injured, Mitts will get an opportunity as a 3rd scoring line/ 4th liner gets a chance to move up creating a space for him.  

Still expect that playing against NHLers in sheltered roles will help Mitts develop more than going against AHLers, but either is preferable to playing against top liners which 2C's face far too often in the real world.

Still expect him to develop into a useful NHLer.  Probably as a legit 2nd liner that ends up playing a lot of 3rd line 5v5 minutes, just due to #'s.  (Presumes Adams can work some magic & keep Hall & Reinhart long term & Cozens is legit top 6 by next season and that Quinn tops out as a top 6 guy as well.)   The cool thing is, w/ the moves Adams made this off-season, Casey won't get forced into a role he's overmatched for which should help with development.  The tough thing is he's likely taxi squad bound & no idea how much not even getting AHL games will hurt his development.   

My takeaway from reading your response is that at best he is a functional third line player getting 4th line minutes. What you are saying is that his potential is limited below the top two lines. Even if he does secure a lower line role he will be an inconsequential and very replaceable player. 

I have stated many times that I want to see Mittelstadt succeed. If he turns out to be better than I think he will be I will not hesitate to admit my mistake and extoll his virtues. Maybe he won't be a failure but that doesn't mean that he will be a success. It more likely will mean that he will be middling. As of now I put him in the Nylander category where you want him to be better than what you see. You eventually have to get to the point where you have to trust your eyes more than your fawning heart. 

[Taro T]

29 minutes ago, JohnC said:

My takeaway from reading your response is that at best he is a functional third line player getting 4th line minutes. What you are saying is that his potential is limited below the top two lines. Even if he does secure a lower line role he will be an inconsequential and very replaceable player. 

I have stated many times that I want to see Mittelstadt succeed. If he turns out to be better than I think he will be I will not hesitate to admit my mistake and extoll his virtues. Maybe he won't be a failure but that doesn't mean that he will be a success. It more likely will mean that he will be middling. As of now I put him in the Nylander category where you want him to be better than what you see. You eventually have to get to the point where you have to trust your eyes more than your fawning heart. 

That's not it at all.

But the top 6 IMHO is set (unless they decide to drop either Reinhart or Olofsson onto a 3rd line to "spread the wealth") and should they open a spot it will likely be on the wing and there are at least 2 guys who will get an opportunity to earn that spot before Mittelstadt.

My expectation is that AT PRESENT, Mittelstadt is best served in a limited NHL role but he likely will be a victim of #'s.  My expectation is still that he grows into a 2nd line caliber player but could find himself on a 3rd line due to #'s moving forward (much like Cirelli is a 3rd liner on a healthy TB but could actually be a 1 on a handful of teams and a clear 2 on almost all rosters).

When he was in Ra-cha-cha, he lost that lost puppy dog look he had when the other team was cycling that he'd had in Buffalo.  Taylor had him trying for the simple high probability play rather than always skating into the phone booth that worked at lower levels but didn't in the NHL.  He's better now than when he went down (or at least he was before the world shut down).  How much better remains to be seen & he has to battle quite a few others to be able to show us, which is why mid season callup was his most likely course prior to this taxi squad thing.  Maybe he gets some game action when they strategically rest Staal or Okposo to keep them fresh.  Don't know.

[JohnC]

2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

That's not it at all.

But the top 6 IMHO is set (unless they decide to drop either Reinhart or Olofsson onto a 3rd line to "spread the wealth") and should they open a spot it will likely be on the wing and there are at least 2 guys who will get an opportunity to earn that spot before Mittelstadt.

My expectation is that AT PRESENT, Mittelstadt is best served in a limited NHL role but he likely will be a victim of #'s.  My expectation is still that he grows into a 2nd line caliber player but could find himself on a 3rd line due to #'s moving forward (much like Cirelli is a 3rd liner on a healthy TB but could actually be a 1 on a handful of teams and a clear 2 on almost all rosters).

When he was in Ra-cha-cha, he lost that lost puppy dog look he had when the other team was cycling that he'd had in Buffalo.  Taylor had him trying for the simple high probability play rather than always skating into the phone booth that worked at lower levels but didn't in the NHL.  He's better now than when he went down (or at least he was before the world shut down).  How much better remains to be seen & he has to battle quite a few others to be able to show us, which is why mid season callup was his most likely course prior to this taxi squad thing.  Maybe he gets some game action when they strategically rest Staal or Okposo to keep them fresh.  Don't know.

We seem to have different assessments of Mitts. Regardless what his current role is I don't foresee him ever becoming a second line caliber of player. What you see as his potential is not what I see. I'm far from having any animus toward this young player. I would not only be very receptive to be proven wrong I would be ecstatic to be proven wrong. However, I see Cozens in a year or two being a second line forward and in a couple to three years I see Quinn becoming established as a second or higher line forward. And I wouldn't be surprised if Arttu moves ahead of Mitts in ranking within the organization. What it comes down to is that the players you envision Mitts beating out is not the envision I have for him. What I see is what I see. 

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, JohnC said:

We seem to have different assessments of Mitts. Regardless what his current role is I don't foresee him ever becoming a second line caliber of player. What you see as his potential is not what I see. I'm far from having any animus toward this young player. I would not only be very receptive to be proven wrong I would be ecstatic to be proven wrong. However, I see Cozens in a year or two being a second line forward and in a couple to three years I see Quinn becoming established as a second or higher line forward. And I wouldn't be surprised if Arttu moves ahead of Mitts in ranking within the organization. What it comes down to is that the players you envision Mitts beating out is not the envision I have for him. What I see is what I see. 

Actually, we seem to be talking past each other.  You say Mittelstadt won't be a 2nd liner because there are guys ahead of him on the depth chart keeping him from getting there once he's matured.  My expectation is he matures to a 2nd liner but much like Jordan Staal in Pittsburgh or Hodgson in Vancouver may be stuck into a lesser role in Buffalo.  Which is fine.  If he likes it here, they'll have depth & if not he could then be moved to help bolster another area.

And my expectation is we likely will see that level of Mittelstadt in '23-'24 though we could even see sparks of it this year.

[JohnC]

8 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Actually, we seem to be talking past each other.  You say Mittelstadt won't be a 2nd liner because there are guys ahead of him on the depth chart keeping him from getting there once he's matured.  My expectation is he matures to a 2nd liner but much like Jordan Staal in Pittsburgh or Hodgson in Vancouver may be stuck into a lesser role in Buffalo.  Which is fine.  If he likes it here, they'll have depth & if not he could then be moved to help bolster another area.

And my expectation is we likely will see that level of Mittelstadt in '23-'24 though we could even see sparks of it this year.

Our views are different but not in a grand way. Where we do distinctly differ is that I don't see him developing into a second line caliber forward even if he ends up playing on a lower line due to a congestion of forwards. Your projected upside for this player is higher than my projected upside is for him. What I see is the Nylander reprise where there will be episodic impressive plays packaged in a bigger box of middling play. Again, I hope I am wrong and will be eager to admit it if proven so. When in doubt trust your eyes. 

[dudacek]

Interesting to hear from Adams and Krueger about Casey this morning.

Apparently if COVID hadn’t happened he had earned himself a recall last spring by his play in Rochester.

Sounds like they felt he was headed in the right direction, was told he had to earn a spot on the team this year and given the tools to take advantage this summer.

Adams emphasized how young Casey was (is?) and really gave me the impression he thinks Casey was given a free pass and needed to be challenged.

It seems like he very much in the mix for this year’s roster, and they are as anxious as we are to see what he will bring to camp.

Also, he was open to the idea of giving him a shot on the wing, which I know has been suggested on here.

Edited December 29, 2020 by dudacek

[Taro T]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Interesting to hear from Adams and Krueger about Casey this morning.

Apparently if COVID hadn’t happened he had earned himself a recall last spring by his play in Rochester.

Sounds like they felt he was headed in the right direction, was told he had to earn a spot on the team this year and given the tools to take advantage this summer.

Adams emphasized how young Casey was (is?) and really gave me the impression he thinks Casey was given a free pass and needed to be challenged.

It seems like he very much in the mix for this year’s roster, and they are as anxious as we are to see what he will bring to camp.

Also, he was open to the idea of giving him a shot on the wing, which I know has been suggested on here.

Not surprised about the possibility of him having been brought back up last year.  As said upthread, his play was coming along down there.  And the Sabres didn't exactly have much offense outside the top line.

Problem for him this year is, they've brought in 2 absolute lock top 6 guys plus Thompson is healthy and has a new you'll make the club unless you really screw up contract, Cozens will get a look, and Eakins & possibly Reider or Lazar will be better fits for the roles left to compete for.

Which puts him in (for a non-taxi squad year) the top Ra-cha-cha C w/ dibs on 1st offensive F callup.

[GASabresIUFAN]

33 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Interesting to hear from Adams and Krueger about Casey this morning.

Apparently if COVID hadn’t happened he had earned himself a recall last spring by his play in Rochester.

Sounds like they felt he was headed in the right direction, was told he had to earn a spot on the team this year and given the tools to take advantage this summer.

Adams emphasized how young Casey was (is?) and really gave me the impression he thinks Casey was given a free pass and needed to be challenged.

It seems like he very much in the mix for this year’s roster, and they are as anxious as we are to see what he will bring to camp.

Also, he was open to the idea of giving him a shot on the wing, which I know has been suggested on here.

Kind of affirming what I’ve been saying for months.  He has a real shot at this roster and he improved during his time in Rochester.  We have 4 wingers, maybe 5 guaranteed a roster spot; Hall, Reinhart, Olofsson, and Skinner and maybe Girgensons.  However after that you can makes for and against everyone else.  Thompson got a 3 year deal, but hasn’t played in well over a year.  KO is on a fat contract but can really be sent down this year because of the taxi squad.  Mitts needs to prove his stint in the AHL made him NHL ready, R2 needs to show he can play on the smaller ice surface.  Cozens and Quinn have no pro experience and may still be in quarantine when the season starts.  That’s a lot of question marks but also flexibility.  

[IKnowPhysics]

On 12/23/2020 at 5:41 PM, DarthEbriate said:

Welcome back to the Sabres, Casey! Go get 'em and make the world regret not believing in you.

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/29/us/nashville-bombing-petula-clark-downtown-song/index.html

Strange coincidence.

 

 

[DarthEbriate]

7 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/29/us/nashville-bombing-petula-clark-downtown-song/index.html

Strange coincidence.

Very strange; I hadn't seen/heard that yet. What a bummer. You never want to have an innocuous song get associated with a tragedy or an act of violence like this. I suppose we could hope that it gave the guy a last happy memory of childhood or some such, except that it wasn't sufficient to prevent the act.

Of course, I've used the German version as Casey's goal song because he's good old Casey "City Center" aka downtown.