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dudacek

Slapping the PP: how do the Sabres work the man advantage?

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Hall and Staal add two more possibilities and Thompson and Cozens could work their way into the mix too.

How do we see Krueger setting up his power play units?

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7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Hall and Staal add two more possibilities and Thompson and Cozens could work their way into the mix too.

How do we see Krueger setting up his power play units?

Without too much thought into it:

Eichel & Olofsson on their respective 1/2 walls, Dahlin @ the top of the umbrella, Reinhart on the doorstep, & Hall in the slot.

Staal & Okposo on 1/2 walls, Cozens in front, Skinner (to keep from hurting his psyche) in the slot, & Montour/Miller at top of the umbrella.  Thompson gets an opportunity to take Okposo's spot.

That 1st unit can work through any of Eichel, Dahlin, or Hall and the PK can't cheat to Eichel or Hall because the other will kill them.

The 2nd unit works through Staal.

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I don't see Thompson in there but Cozens in time might be part of the 2nd unit. There are simply too many options for me to speculate but I think we can have 2 decent units now and 1 very good top unit. Hopefully we get enough net presence that Risto doesn't have to stand in front and Dahlin can grow into the true quarterback we know he can be. 

I think what we really need to wait and see on is what the Olofsson and Reinhart contracts end up being and whether or not they'll be seen as part of the plan going forward or not. 

13 minutes ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

Now that we should have good secondary scoring I'm more concerned about how they take care of the PK.

I am kind of in agreement on this too. I'd like to see one more solid checker/PK guy on the roster. Give us a Boston style 4th line. 

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I'd love for them to try Risto in the role Boston used Chara for many years.  If my memory serves, the B actually had Chara play from the net to the area between the faceoff circles to use his big body and strength to cause chaos in front of the net.  In most seasons with the B's Chara would score 8-11 PP goals a year.  Many around the net.

I'd also like to see Jack used more like Ovie.  Now that we have Hall to distribute the puck, Jack can freelance some to look for open lanes for his blistering shot.

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Where has Hall usually played over his career? In the Olofsson slot?

He’s actually been a pretty average PP scorer over his career, with the exception being his MVP year where he doubled his typical totals (13 goals, 37 points) His 2nd best year was Ralph in Edmonton (13 goals, 21 points). Last year he was just 4/14/18.

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1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Hopefully... Dahlin can grow into the true quarterback we know he can be. . 

What’s interesting there is it’s pretty obvious that Dahlin can grow on the PP.

But what people may not realize is he is already a very capable QB. He finished 9th among defencemen in PP points, tied with Makar, ahead of Burns, Karlsson, Werenski, Theodore, Letang, Chabot and a host of other studs.

Prorating the games missed to injury, he’s tied with Hedman for 6th.

That’s before he turned 20 and put on 15 pounds of muscle and maybe developed a shot along with it.

This kid is going to be so good.

Edited by dudacek
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58 minutes ago, dudacek said:

What’s interesting there is it’s pretty obvious that Dahlin can grow on the PP.

But what people may not realize is he is already a very capable QB. He finished 9th among defencemen in PP points, tied with Makar, ahead of Burns, Karlsson, Werenski, Theodore, Letang, Chabot and a host of other studs.

Prorating the games missed to injury, he’s tied with Hedman for 6th.

That’s before he turned 20 and put on 15 pounds of muscle and maybe developed a shot along with it.

This kid is going to be so good.

I think so too. Remember when he was drafted a lot of people compared him to Hedmann, and well, we just saw the trophy handed out didn't we. 

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Hall talked on the instigators yesterday how PP are fluid and players should be comfortable rotating between the spots. 

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Moving this from Hall thread because it fits better here:

***

Victor has to evolve beyond a one-trick pony in order to elevate the PP. Defences stack against his shot, and he hasn't been able to exploit that by making plays.

His shot is such a weapon that I don't really want him moved off PP1. I hope he has worked on that element. One school of thought says plugging Hall into his slot makes the power play completely ambidextrous, whereas right now all the playmaking works through Jack's side and PKs know it.

Another possibility is moving Hall into Sam's slot. That brings more power to that position without losing any hand skill. I don't know that Hall is as good playing the netfront though and it neuters his shot. He's also the wrong hand.

IMO, Staal is the solution on the right side down low with his size and his hands. And he can take left-side faceoffs. Perfect fit down there.

That said, Hall is at least the right hand for that side, so maybe he goes there and Staal gets the job of running PP2.

They have a lot of options. I hope they pick the one that works.

1 hour ago, MODO Hockey said:

Hate is a strong word, but this has nothing to do with that. Bring something more useful to the conversation instead, why would you remove one of the most lethal powerplay weapon we've had in a long long time?

Edited by dudacek
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Here is the good news going forward.  The PP has Eichel, Hall, Reinhart, VO, Skinner, Risto, Montour, Miller, Dahlin, and maybe Cozens to choose from.  That's to much talent for the PP to stink.  I think most of the PP issues stems from coaching and a lack of creativity.  We know this collection of players can be excellent on the PP.  We saw it work during the PH period.  

One issue seems to puck movement.  When the PH Sabres were great on the PP they moved the puck East/West very quickly and kept the Pk off balance.  We seem to have lost that waiting for VO to unleash "The Shot" or Jack to make a play.  Things are just to stagnant. 

As I mentioned above I'd like the coaches to try guys in different roles to see if things click.  I'd like to see Jack in the Ovie role or Risto in the Chara role.   We need to create more chaos and keep the PK off balance.  However, because we have Risto, Miller, Dahlin and Montour, all with good to excellent PP skills, I'd like to see two D on both power plays to hopefully cut down on the breakaways going the other way.

 

Edited by GASabresIUFAN

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24 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is the good news going forward.  The PP has Eichel, Hall, Reinhart, VO, Skinner, Risto, Montour, Miller, Dahlin, and maybe Cozens to choose from.  That's to much talent for the PP to stink.  I think most of the PP issues stems from coaching and a lack of creativity.  We know this collection of players can be excellent on the PP.  We saw it work during the PH period.  

One issue seems to puck movement.  When the PH Sabres were great on the PP they moved the puck East/West very quickly and kept the Pk off balance.  We seem to have lost that waiting for VO to unleash "The Shot" or Jack to make a play.  Things are just to stagnant.

As I mentioned above I'd like the coaches to try guys in different roles to see if things click.  I'd like to see Jack in the Ovie role or Risto in the Chara role.   We need to create more chaos and keep the PK off balance.  However, because we have Risto, Miller, Dahlin and Montour, all with good to excellent PP skills, I'd like to see two D on both power plays to hopefully cut down on the breakaways going the other way.

 

When the PP goes cold, absolutely they should experiment w/ variants to get something working & ideally better than what they had.  Really want the 1st unit they try though to be (as mentioned above) Eichel - Hall - Reinhart - Olofsson - Dahlin as it puts a pure finisher out with 4 playmakers, at least 3 of which can also consistently bury it.  And, if Dahlin now has a hard shot, any of the 5 could bury a shot.

But don't want 2 D out there (typically) for several reasons.  1 - the umbrella is far more effective than the traditional 3-2 set up.  And, whether you have a 2nd D-man or a F out there breakaways & odd man rushes will happen out of that formation.  You gain little defensively by having 2D deployed that way, but the 4th F will generate more offense than the 2nd D will & offense is the whole point of the PP.

Also, by using a 4-1 deployment you reduce the overall ice time for the 6 D.  Even at only 1 PP per period, you reduce the total D workload from 40 minutes/ period to 38 minutes.  Having the top 4 D getting 23, 23, 19, & 19 (fairly common or even 23, 23, 20, 20) minutes per game will knock 3 additional minutes off the 5 & 6 defenders so now they're getting 15 minutes / game rather than 18 minutes.  That's (@ 45 second shifts) 4 full opposing F shifts you don't have to worry about having your weakest D stuck on the ice.

When nursing a lead late, absolutely use 2D on the PP and make the attack more traditional & conservative.  And, maybe there is a match-up that the 2nd PP unit might exploit by using the more traditional approach (doubtful very often, but maybe).  But typically, go for it.

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13 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'd love for them to try Risto in the role Boston used Chara for many years.  If my memory serves, the B actually had Chara play from the net to the area between the faceoff circles to use his big body and strength to cause chaos in front of the net.  In most seasons with the B's Chara would score 8-11 PP goals a year.  Many around the net.

I'd also like to see Jack used more like Ovie.  Now that we have Hall to distribute the puck, Jack can freelance some to look for open lanes for his blistering shot.

Maybe I'm crazy, but haven't we tried both of these things?

I definitely remember seeing Risto at the netmouth for a number of games last year, and Eichel plays the left wall just as Ovi does for Washington.  Eichel spends more time controlling the puck and setting up plays, but that just comes down to the style of players they are.  He still gets plenty of one time shots off from that spot.

Edited by Shootica

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14 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I'd love for them to try Risto in the role Boston used Chara for many years.  If my memory serves, the B actually had Chara play from the net to the area between the faceoff circles to use his big body and strength to cause chaos in front of the net.  In most seasons with the B's Chara would score 8-11 PP goals a year.  Many around the net.

I'd also like to see Jack used more like Ovie.  Now that we have Hall to distribute the puck, Jack can freelance some to look for open lanes for his blistering shot.

They used Risto in front of net before and he was good!

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29 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

They used Risto in front of net before and he was good!

... and then they stopped.  One rule of life is keeping doing what's working.  I remember the experiment as well and still wonder why they stopped.  

Jack is at the Ovie position, but now with Hall here, I think he'll have less playmaking obligations and more freedom to shoot.     

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17 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

... and then they stopped.  One rule of life is keeping doing what's working.  I remember the experiment as well and still wonder why they stopped.  

Jack is at the Ovie position, but now with Hall here, I think he'll have less playmaking obligations and more freedom to shoot.     

Did they stop?

They tried some different things when VO went down, including two Rasmi on the points, and I think Simmonds might have got a brief taste down low.

But I remember Risto being moved down there after Dahlin came back from his injury and for the most part staying there until the season ended.

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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Did they stop?

They tried some different things when VO went down, including two Rasmi on the points, and I think Simmonds might have got a brief taste down low.

But I remember Risto being moved down there after Dahlin came back from his injury and for the most part staying there until the season ended.

I very well could be wrong, but I don't remember Risto continuing in the Chara style of play after a short stint.  The season was so forgettable that I could have just lost interest late and didn't remember him continuing in the Chara role.

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7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Hall talked on the instigators yesterday how PP are fluid and players should be comfortable rotating between the spots. 

The Sabres did this so well in the mid-2000s.

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17 minutes ago, Eleven said:

The Sabres did this so well in the mid-2000s.

They did it well when Bob Woods was running the PP as well.

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55 minutes ago, Taro T said:

They did it well when Bob Woods was running the PP as well.

I don't remember too much going well in the last several years, but I'll trust you.

When I think of powerplays that cycle well, the image that comes to mind is Afinogenov's OT goal against the Rangers.

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3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

I don't remember too much going well in the last several years, but I'll trust you.

When I think of powerplays that cycle well, the image that comes to mind is Afinogenov's OT goal against the Rangers.

#1 in the league in '16-'17 at 24.5%.  Only the Loafs were above 23.1% at 23.8%.

Hall can fill the ROR role to a T from that unit.

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9 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Hall talked on the instigators yesterday how PP are fluid and players should be comfortable rotating between the spots. 

Maybe that’s why Hall has moved around so much.  His rather flaccid  take on the PP.  Fluid?  There’s  plenty with any good PP.  

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20 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here is the good news going forward.  The PP has Eichel, Hall, Reinhart, VO, Skinner, Risto, Montour, Miller, Dahlin, and maybe Cozens to choose from.  That's to much talent for the PP to stink.  I think most of the PP issues stems from coaching and a lack of creativity.  We know this collection of players can be excellent on the PP.  We saw it work during the PH period.  

One issue seems to puck movement.  When the PH Sabres were great on the PP they moved the puck East/West very quickly and kept the Pk off balance.  We seem to have lost that waiting for VO to unleash "The Shot" or Jack to make a play.  Things are just to stagnant. 

As I mentioned above I'd like the coaches to try guys in different roles to see if things click.  I'd like to see Jack in the Ovie role or Risto in the Chara role.   We need to create more chaos and keep the PK off balance.  However, because we have Risto, Miller, Dahlin and Montour, all with good to excellent PP skills, I'd like to see two D on both power plays to hopefully cut down on the breakaways going the other way.

 


As far as i know Jack is playing that role you want him to play, and this is why our powerplay is more successful now than before, because of Victor Olofsson. 
This example below is just how beautiful it can be if played right. Reinhart actually does a good job infront of the goal aswell. Risto is probably the only one we have that can do the same job infront of the net when it comes to our d-men.

Having Jack on the left and Victor on the right gives us such a lethal powerplay, they both have a very accurate slapshot, it actually blows my mind how lethal they are together, we have "ovie" to the left and "ovie" to the right. If we can find them the perfect fit (maybe hall?) we will most likely see one of the most lethal setups we've had since i dont know.. speaking of 5 vs 5. 

Back to powerplay though, this just speak for it self.

 

Gives me goosebumps watching how they read eachother, they are a perfect fit. Jack sets it up so beautiful and Victor read Jack like a glove.

 

 

Edited by MODO Hockey

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@MODO Hockey I don’t disagree that the tools are there for a good power play.  In fact the tools before adding hall are good enough for a top 5 PP, except we don’t have one.

Part of the problem is our Left Wall Obie is a pass first guy and the PP QB.  That’s OK, but he needs to shoot more.  Also the puck movement is slow and often telegraphed.  This gives the PK time to adjust and time to collapse of VO and others.

IMHO moving the puck quicker East/West, Hi to low, with the goal of getting the PK out of position will create more and better shooting lanes and hopefully more goals.

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The ‘big’ thing is Eichel and Dahlin. Perfect right in the wheelhouse for Oly.  Oly is not unappreciative 

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